Healthcare Question, Is the US system Moral?

[bleedingheart]

A flyer came home from the elementary school asking for the kids in the school to bring in money to help out another child who has been injured in an accident.

Apparently the parents need money to handle the medical bills and this plea for assistance was sent out because the child's bills are going to exceed the parents ability to pay. I know nothing about this situation so they may not be insured or they may be insured but the copays may be astronomical.

To top it off, the child is very ill and may not survive his injuries or be permanently disabled.

Being a bleedingheart liberal I will be sending in a donation but I have to ask a question.

Is this the healthcare system that the Republicans think is the best in the world?

They think a National Healthcare system is a bad idea but yet it is perfectly acceptable to have people worrying about raising money to take care of medical bills in their time of need? I guess they are okay with people losing their homes and being bankrupt, but I have to ask, is this a Moral system that we have????

I am off to work but this situation just has me sick.

[methinks2]

1. My sense is that republicans think that sin causes disease

therefore if you're sick you must deserve to suffer. Therefore if you suffer and die it is God's will.
:think:

[Nimrod]

2. To them it is

Survival of the fittest, y'know. If you were wealthy/Godly/smart/brave/manly/whatever enough, an illness wouldn't mean total disaster. If someone gets sick, and you lose your home trying to pay for medical care, that means you're not good enough and it's your own fault. Extremely moral.

(And I agree with the above poster in that if you were wealthy/Godly/etc.etc.etc. enough you probably wouldn't get sick in the first place.)

That's the problem with the word "morals". It's very subjective.

Is it ethical? Fuck no.

[SmokingJacket]

3. What if we had to pay firefighters when our house burned down?

Or pay cops when a loved one was murdered -- lots of detective work goes into working on a crime, you know!

We accept that when certain uncontrollable events happen to us (fire, crime), it makes sense for the community to shoulder part of the burden of the costs with tax dollars.

But for some reason, if we talk about paying doctors with tax dollars, THAT'S EVIL SOCIALISM!

What it comes down to is -- some people don't want to have to pay for someone else's misfortune.

[LynzM]

4. I don't believe it is

I don't believe that a person's access to health care should be determined by the amount of money they have (or the amount of money that the people they know have). Period.

The gov't already picks up 46% of the medical tab in this country, expected to reach 50% by 2011. We have socialized medicine to an extent, but in a really screwed up way. Ugh.

[Bridget Burke]

5. Jesus fed the hungry & healed the sick...

But too many who profess to believe in "moral values" would gladly let the poor die. (Or let the middle class go into bankruptcy--until even that way is closed.)

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AllegroRondo]

10. The problem is there is no safety net

as shown by the story related above.

when over half of the bankruptcies in this country are due to medical bills, we have a serious problem.

[Lars39]

14. No, it is not ethical, and the safety net is almost nonexistent.

Lose your job and benefits, then get back to us.
Especially if you are newly diagnosed with a life-threatening disease.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

17. Oh, yeah, I can tell where you're coming from

with your notion that rich people have more worth as human beings and therefore deserve the best medical care while the poor shlubs who make their affluent lifestyle possible go with undiagnosed serious conditions because they can't afford an office visit.

[Telly Savalas]

19. I'd say the 45 million uninsured Americans have "limited options"

[Malva Zebrina]

20. Some pigs are more equal than others eom

[FizzFuzz]

27. making things equal = limiting options?

No liberal or Dem is suggesting safety nets obviate all other options. The point is provision of options to those who have none, not removing the options of those who "can afford" more.

"independent_mind"? More like kool-aid_mind. Take some aspirins with those RW bromides, and call me in the morning.

errr, on second thought, don't call me.

[porphyrian]

7. They're self-righteous hypocrites.

The fucking bastards are either too dumb to see it or too corrupt to give a shit.

[hector459]

8. Repbulicans take pride in thwarting Hillary's healthcare plan....so what

do we have to show for not addressing this issue when Hillary tried to?
We have the current disgraceful condition of healthcare in this country.
Thanks the Republicans and their wealthy comrades in the AMA...just more of the corporatocracy at work.

[Toots]

9. It is quite immoral..except of course the socialized military health care.

Soldiers don't pay for their health care. It is completely socialized but that is "okay" because they are our warriors. Okay to take care of our killers but normal people no way......

[Sgent]

11. Make sure the parents have applied

for Medicaid in the state.

Even if they have private insurance, if they are low income, Medicaid will pay all of th co-pays and deductibles.

[Toots]

12. You haven't heard about the huge cuts for medicaid

Why do you think the governors (even GOP) are in a huge uproar over bush*'s budget proposals? Medicaid is almost history.....

[independent_mind]

13. Toots that's silly

Healthcare is not socialized if you're earning it.

And I think it can be said that soldiers EARN their benefits. That's not the same as everone who wants benefits for free.

[Lars39]

15. "Wants benefits for free"

Here's some much needed info for you:

http://home.att.net/~Resurgence/L-healthcare.htm


These are 1991 stats; things have gotten much worse for US citizens.

Health Care Expenditures (percent of GDP) (1)

United States 13.4%
Canada 10.0
Finland 9.1
Sweden 8.6
Germany 8.4
Netherlands 8.4
Norway 7.6
Japan 6.8
United Kingdom 6.6
Denmark 6.5


Percent of population covered by public health care:

ALL NATIONS (except below) 100%
France, Austria 99
Switzerland, Spain, Belgium 98
Germany 92
Netherlands 77
United States 40

[sweetheart]

18. Full national coverage is not "benefits for free"... all are taxpayers

Its just a matter of considering national health along the same lines
as national defense. In this regard, national defense spares no cost
to ensure its objectives. Similarly, making sure that all citizens have
access to proper treatment for medical issues is not freeloading.

It is rather a human right... one that the US is too low to recognize.

[grumpy old fart]

22. "earn", "free"....hmmmm, I see a pattern here...

This administration is all about valuing life, in the womb. Beyond that, well, it's "I've got mine" and fuck the rest of you. What ever happened to promoting the General Welfare? Healthcare is about as basic as you can get in valuing life.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

16. The current system is immoral

Every once in a while, I see notices of fundraisers for someone who has huge medical bills and no way to pay for them. What's so heartbreaking about these fundraisers is that even a couple hundred equally poor friends contributing what they can won't even make a dent in the bills of someone with cancer or massive injuries.

Even Costa Rica and Taiwan guarantee health care to their people.

[DARE to HOPE]

21. No, it is not, and it's not even SMART!

There is so much WASTE in our medical system, obvious now in our new pharmaceutical bill.

What we need is a real revolution in how we even think about HEALTH in our system. I had hoped the Kerry's and Edward's would lead us there, along with Joe Kennedy and his Uncle Ted.

We need to clean up our air, food and water. We need to purge dangerous chemicals OUT of our ecosystem. We need to teach people about REAL nutrition (that new pyramid is half right anyway, but leaves out the new news about FATS.)

The American people have been voting with our dollars, for organic food, for cleaner air and water, for vitamins and herbs in place of drugs and surgery. But the movement of the educated middle class is still only a privileged part of the whole scene.

Lifestyle changes ARE sufficient to cure diabetes and depression, high blood pressure and heart disease! THINK of all the money and heartache that would save, even if it began to effect only some 30% of us. Diseases like Parkinsons and MS would decrease as we get the NutraSweet and other poisons OUT of our system. I mean, isn't it clear to EVERYBODY that children SHOULD NOT GET CANCER--that cancer is an old people's disease now spread to children because of the toxins we surround ourselves with!

I actually always feel sorry for people like the Pope, Bill Clinton, or even the senior Bushes, when they got "the best" medical care! It ain't the best, folks. Taking out organs we need, drugging us with drugs our bodies cannot clear. And then they charge us an arm and a leg for the privilege.

[movie_girl99]

23. this happened in our district as well

a kid was paralyzed playing HS football. The family had no insurance and at every school event there is always a collection for him and his family to help cover medical expenses.

[movie_girl99]

24. this happened in our district as well

a kid was paralyzed playing HS football. The family had no insurance and at every school event there is always a collection for him and his family to help cover medical expenses.

[richargl]

25. humans are way too

unpredictable tand prdictable to have a system that is moral effective fair etc....people take advantage and steal and cheat and don't prepare etc...
all systems will fail...

Steve @ Orgasm Control . com

[Lydia Leftcoast]

26. Yeah, when people like you talk about how "unfair" national health care

is, they mean that rich people have to wait for their tummy tucks so that those lazy hotel maids and daycare workers and retail clerks can get tested for diabetes.