If the brain is growing out of the fetus, and the Mom's life is in danger,

[trumad]

Abort God Damn it!

[babylonsister]

1. Totally agree! nt

[Anakin Skywalker]

2. Which Rightwinger is Leaking

brain lubricant this time?

:)

[trumad]

3. The damn later term abortion threads got me in funk.

It's unbelievable that people just don't get what LTA's are for.

[rkc3]

4. Is it too late for an LTA to be performed on Santorum?

[jmowreader]

25. That would be a 200th-trimester abortion

And no, 200th-trimester abortions are still illegal.

Too bad we can't stuff him back where he came from and let him cook for a couple more trimesters. I don't think he's done yet.

[lastliberalintexas]

5. He's a kid

His profile shows that he's probably about 15 or 16. Maybe in a few years he'll understand the issue a little better- hopefully after reading his own thread, in fact!

[Bunny]

6. He is indeed young. But how do you explain the ones that are

old enough to know better? It's quite discouraging.

[lastliberalintexas]

10. I don't know Bunny

Willful ignorance? People who haven't actually researched the issue and have just listened to the RW or MSM? Most of the time I find that people who are already pro-choice support the right to late term abortions once they know the facts. Which I suppose is why the RWers have such a massive propoganda campaign going...

[Bunny]

12. I have to go with willful ignorance. Because once they have the

facts, they would feel differently.

So many people seem to think that they have to embrace late term abortion - they do not. All they have to do is recognize the medical necessity, and not stand in the way.

And I'm absolutely fed up to here with people who still seem to think that late-term women just up and get an abortion on a whim. It's so goddamn condescending. The American Taliban.

[mondo joe]

16. The right has framed the argument

They've got the language, the feelings, the ahacko stories people believe.

It's their long term strategy for victory - look, they even have young dems growing up believing their crap.

[jdj]

7. they get it, it's the internet version of a "terra alert"

something is going on somewhere that they don't want people to pay attention to, so they start abortion threads.

[Bouncy Ball]

8. Yeeesh

someone is in favor of letting the mom die rather than abort a fetus that WON'T live????

What about if she has other living children? Do they just get to be motherless?

Wow.

[Malva Zebrina]

9. ticks me off also

and the pro-life people? It is unfortunate they choose to adopt this meme. They most likely would think that this monster, and yes, monster is the term used for these deformed products of a pregnancy gone wrong, should be birthed by the mother, only to die a few hours later because it has no brain, no mouth by which to feed from, and no nose by which to breathe from. There is NO compassion for the plight of this mother at all and that is not surprising since most of the ideology concerning "pro-life" issues come from men or male hierophants who have succesfully convinced women their bodies belong to them.

they probably think that being "pro-life" means that this poor woman, who eagerly awaits the birth of her precious and wanted "baby" she has carried for more than six months, maybe even eight months, must suffer more by seeing the monster that is born without a brain, or a brain that is contained outside the skull and sits there on a saline saturated piece of gauze to keep it moist, as the product of her pregnancy and most likely suffers guilt for it's deformity although it is by no means her fault. It still has a "soul" whatever that means, so the poor woman must accept her allocated fate to carry it and to birth it, no matter the consequences to her.

Yet the same pro-life people readily accept "living wills" as the reason NOT to keep a person alive, where people can decide they no longer want to keep their body alive with tubes and artificial methods of keeping a body alive even though the brain is dead and all indications are that the person is indeed legally dead. IT's OK then, because the person may be old and they are not a "baby", although they do, as a zygote, according to the rationale, have a soul.

[CornField]

11. Speaking as someone who has been through it

I think the idea of some of these defects which prompt D&X and D&E proceedures are just too horrific for some people to comprehend.

In my son's case, every organ which should have been growing inside of his body was growing outside of his body -- open spine, open head, open abdomen.

The ironic thing (which I wrote about in the other thread) is that many of the people who are against late term abortions are the same people who believe in Living Wills and a family's right to pull the plug of a loved one on life support.

[Maat]

13. Oh, I'm so sorry you had to go through such a thing.

And, yes, I was aware of the facts, and have corrected many people's misconceptions.

Hearing from personal experience, however, is poignant.

Hope that there has been some healing, and that you and your family have been blessed in many ways.

[CornField]

20. Thank you, Maat

Yes, our family has moved forward. (Time rarely sits by and waits for us to be ready.) :) We've had some very sad times since then and some very joyous times. (Including the birth of two more children - a girl in 2000 and a boy in 2002.) I'm thankful for it all.

[Maat]

27. I'm glad to hear that.

Thanks so much for sharing.

[Ariana Celeste]

14. I replied to that,

I am so very sorry for what you have gone through.

My reply to that OP we both replied to, was that he should google anencephaly, exancephaly, and hydrocephalus- common reasons for late-term abortion.
Some people give birth to children with these problems, and the children rarely, if ever, live very long. It would be cruel to force mothers to give birth to these children, who won't even live anyways- not only is it cruel to the child, cruel to the mother, and cruel to the family- but there always lies a risk to the mothers health and life where these defects are concerned.

It was the main thing that opened my eyes and changed my perspective on things.

Once again, truly sorry for what you have been through. Nothing hurts more. :hug:

[CornField]

18. I was in the middle of typing a thank you in the other thread

when it was locked. LOL!! That kinda sums up my entire day!

In any event, thanks to you, Ariana, and to BullGooseLoony and lastliberalintexas for expressing your sympathies. It's always very special to me when someone acknowledges 1) that he was my son and 2) that I have/had a right to grieve the loss. Thank you.

Ariana, I have two friends that have carried their anencephaly daughters to term. One arrived stillborn and the other lived for just over 40 minutes. Last year I finally had the courage to admit to them that I often felt guilty for making the decision to terminate my pregnancy -- that I saw them as much stronger than I was because they continued on. That's when they told me that they saw me as the stronger because I made the decision to terminate the pregnancy. They often feel guilt because they put their families through the torture of a pregnancy which would end in the child's death.

Nothing is ever an easy decision and I think women are pre-programmed to hold guilt.

[Ariana Celeste]

21. It's the whole maternal thing.

I agree- we must be pre-programmed. I'm happy that it meant something to you. I always hesitate in expressing my sympathies to people- I know from experience that sometimes, it just doesn't seem like much. Sometimes it seems fake. And sometimes, it really helps. I decided to risk my chances. :)

[lostnfound]

17. I'm sorry, and thank you for sharing a bit of your truth

It makes a difference.

[CornField]

22. You're very welcome & thank you too

I hope my experiences can help others understand that D&X procedures aren't done on a whim. Thank you for your expression of sympathy.

[dogman]

15. Don't forget, true family values include the right to pollute the earth

so that these conditions are more likely to occur.

[donheld]

19. Yes, that's the right thing to do

for everybody involved.

[Democrat Dragon]

23. yes!

the baby can't even survive that. And even if it does, it will be motherless and require dozens of surguries to keep it alive and will suffer and eventually die at an early age.

[TomNickell]

24. Exactly! And the right tactic. Concrete, concrete, concrete....

The religious right describes the details of a full-term abortion of a healthy fetus, then tries to keep rape victims from getting Morning After pills.

We need to be asking questions like this:
If the baby has no brain and the Mother would die giving birth. If the mother is in heart failure and there is no way both survive. If your wife is raped. If a 13 year old is pregnant by her father......

What would you do? Are you -really- against all abortions? Would you really throw a Dr in jail for doing an abortion in that situation?

Do you want the police investigating every miscarriage?

Concrete. Concrete. Concrete.

[Az]

26. Its not a question of life

Every cell is alive. Millions of your own cells die every day. Every 7 years you lose and replaced enough cells to build another you. Guess what. You didn't die.

Do not become confused about things because of the awe we have for life. Life is interesting and fascinating. But even more wonderous and amazing is sentient life.

Here's the thing. We are not a cell. We are not a clump of cells. We are not a specific collection of cells. We are an ever changing active collection of cells. From this arraingment of cells arises a mind. The mind arises specifically from a functioning brain. It is this mind that we identify as another person. A sentient being.

Even if it looks like a human being if the brain is not functional it is not a human BEING. Being is a verb. If there is no entity present then there is no person being. A group of cells without a functioning brain are the equivalent of all those cells you lose every seven years. All the bits and peaces needed to make a human being but not put together in the proper way.