Is Pat Buchanan Right on This Issue or is McCain?--conflicting views

[DemocracyInaction]

The other day Buchanan was addessing Bush's "democracy" rhetoric as he runs around the world demanding and scolding. He said that, indeed, because of the Iraqi elections and the Afgan elections mixed with TV and the internet, that there are rumblings among the peoples in the Middle East. However, he pointed out that we are the good buddy and supporter of a number of dictatorships and absolute monarchies in the region whose people want them overthrown BUT they hate their governments because they play footsie with America (the people detest us). Pat said that if they do rise up, they are of the ilk that want a theocracy (Muslim fundamentalists) put in place and are not thinking in terms of a democracy at all.

McCain tonight on hardball cautioned about what a long struggle yet there is in Iraq, but was yacking all over the place about how hopeful things are all over the region and elsewhere as rumblings of democracy are breaking out all over. He specifically addressed the Saudis and said that he believed that if they dumped the royals he thought they would be putting in a democracy.

Personally, I think McCain is buying the old "flowers thrown at our tanks" routine and that Buchanan was right on the money. As Pat said, we have no idea what we have unleashed and what things might be like 5-10 years from now over in the region. We might have just loaded the gun that's going to blow our goddamn oil soaked foot off (and when that happens, you can kiss goodbye to the American economy)!!!

[applegrove]

1. I read that Islamist fundies wanted to overthrow all secular mid east

governments but they couldn't find support until they got to Afghanistan. And then they had a place they could train others. But even then many of the kids who went for training didn't want to join the movement when they returned home to Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Jordan, etc. But all it took was 20.

***holes!

[TreasonousBastard]

2. I think Buchanan is much closer to the truth, but...

things are so complicated over there that none of the talking heads knows what they are talking about.

[DemocracyInaction]

3. I just read the post about Keith Olberman saying tonight that

Bush's doctrine seems to be working!!! Seems like all of a sudden this is media talking point #1. And yet, no one is really investigating the difference between "I want to overthrow my ruler" and "what kind of government I want it replaced with"!!! If it's just the 'overthrow' act, then maybe Bush is getting through. BUT, if these buddies of the US are overthrown by people who detest us, like I said in my post, we could end up begging for oil with a tin cup!!! That's why it pisses me to hear these people pronounce that everythings coming up roses!! In fact, if the Saudi's get a torch put their royal asses, I wonder who we will defend: the people or the royal family---and we will be dragged in because it's our life blood on the line.

[adigal]

4. I think this democracy nonsense

is on the list of right wing talking points. I fail to see where there is going to be any real democracy over there. I also fail to see any real democracy over here either.

[Somawas]

5. Buchanan's "American Conservative"

has had a couple of interesting articles on Iraq. In one he points out that there are none of the social, cultural or governmental institutions in place that are typical of democracies. Buchanan is wacked on a lot of things, but on foreign policy, he's almost one of us.

[AlCzervik]

6. I think Buchanan is pretty right on with most of his points

and as for McCain's..."breaking out all over the place" i think he's dead wrong. If the Saudis lose their royals i'm pretty sure that it will be replaced with theocracy and not Iranian style...Saudi style.

[OHdem10]

7. In watching Buchanan over the years,

I put more faith in his opinions. Pat really digs and studies.
He is a person of conviction and does not change his stance based
on which way the wind is blowing.

After I watched McCain practically change his stripes and suck
up to Bush during Presidential Campaign, I have lost some respect.

I watched MCCain on Hardball tonight and my reaction was--This is Republican Line -- giving Bush Credit for Middle East Democracy.

Sure, I want Peace in Middle East. I am realistic enough to
wonder what may we have unleashed. Hezbullah is part of the Government in Lebanon and in charge of all Social Services.
They have advised the people to go slow on demands on Syria..
Many unanswered questions. It is beautiful to see the peacefu
protest. Let us wait and see.

[CindyDale]

8. The democracy rhetoric doesn't work with me

because it's not why we went there.

OTOH, Buchanan's own rhetoric is questionable as well as ironic because you have to wonder whether Buchanan would prefer democracy or theocracy. The week before the election Buchanan was insisting that people should vote for Bush for the Supreme Court nominations, for example.

[LynnTheDem]

9. Buchanan is correct; if & when people in the ME rise up, it will be to

1) Overthrow their much-hated US-supporting governments

2) Solidify against America.

Again the rightwingnuttery (and some "progressives") are using the black-white/either-or mentality; if they hate their governments they must love us.

WRONG.

They hate BOTH.

[leesa]

10. McCain's living in a neocon fantasyland. I'm sure if SA threw out the

royals it would become the US with lot's of McDonalds and Pepsi everywhere. These people are delusional. They never learn.