Hilarity from the Moonie Times: public schools = communist indoctrination

[Fenris]

Any parent with a child in a public school has likely discovered our education system is little more than a means by which liberals indoctrinate children with socialist ideology.

<...>

Take the "community box," for instance. How many elementary school kids across the country show up the first day of school, only to have their brand-new supplies pilfered by their teacher and thrown into one big box, to be distributed henceforth as said teacher sees fit? (Karl Marx also had very little regard for private property rights.)

Or how about "cooperative learning" methods of instruction? I use quotation marks to point out how impossible it usually is to get kids to cooperate or learn when they sit in groups a pencil length from their neighbors. But if a teacher is blessed with darling little angels who would never think of misbehaving, students who have "more" knowledge are regularly expected to help those with "less." (How's that saying go again? "From each according to his ability.")

<...>

In the "perfect" society, there is no private property because everything belongs to the state (or the "village," in Hillary Clinton's mind) -- even your children.

http://washingtontimes.com/commentary/20050226-101212-8072r.htm

I had no idea that sharing supplies and doing group work were attempts by the International Communist Conspiracy to indoctrinate me! I feel so violated! :cry:

[ProdigalJunkMail]

1. i don't think it is communist indoctrination

but taking one child's supplies and making a part of the community supplies is crap...if they wish to volunteer them, then fine...

theProdigal

[Mizmoon]

6. I've never seen that

I bet you haven't either. Because it doesn't make any freakin sense. If you were the teacher, why would you do that? Everyone brings their own stuff and keeps it. That's why they have to write their names on every blessed thing.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

7. you have obviously never sat in a second grade class in

Gwinnett Co GA...it has happened and will probably continue to. I will not mention the teacher...but the school is Brookwood Elementary...and it is crap.

theProdigal

OnEdit : You lost your 'bet'...what did I win???

[AnnInLa]

17. It happens where I teach too, and it is NOT crap, nor Communism

So many of the children never bring school supplies at all, they just can't afford to. So, either the teachers go out and spend their own money to buy those children the necessary supplies, or all the supplies are pooled. It is not communism, it is called SHARING. God, when sharing supplies and peer-help is called Communism, I just want to give up. Damn. Let the citizens have dozens of car washes and hundreds of bake sales and cake bingos just to raise money for the common expenses of running a school.....but, when we share, it's communistic???

[ProdigalJunkMail]

19. stealing supplies from one student to give to another is crap

it is not sharing...never was and never will be. I am sorry that people are stingy assholes; I agree with you there. But taking from one to give to another doesn't teach sharing. It teaches that authority figures have the right to seize from you that which you own and give it to someone else (who may have just had lazy parents or is a forgetful child).

Please stop calling it sharing. You want to teach sharing...fine...ASK THE STUDENTS to contribute. THAT is sharing...

theProdigal

[AnnInLa]

21. I pay taxes too, but don't consider that the govt steals

that money from me....I am glad to share what I can with society. I will continue to call it SHARING, as long as poor children can't afford the ever-increasing cost and amount of school supplies. Hope you don't ever visit my classroom...there are all kinds of sharing going on that would probably make yr head explode. SHARE SHARE SHARE

[ProdigalJunkMail]

24. i am sorry you cannot understand that this is NOT

sharing...try to stop paying your taxes and then see if you feel like it is sharing. You teach sharing by example and reward...not by stealing some little kid's pencils that his mommy just GAVE him and then giving them to someone else. You, ma'am, frighten me. As a teacher, YOU of ALL people should be better versed in the concrete meaning of words and the appropriate methods for engendering the response you wish. Stealing is NOT SHARING...look up the words if you must and see how they compare...

theProdigal

[AnnInLa]

31. The parents who provide the supplies do not consider it stealing

They are perfectly aware that all supplies are shared, and not one parent has ever complained, in 22 years. Shared.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

33. glad your parents don't care

I know several who do...and have complained. Taking is not a part of sharing...words have meanings. If it is volunteered, then I commend you on a job well done. But the first child who doesn't wish to participate...then it is confiscation and you are teaching them that you, as an authority, can treat them any way you wish...Do you ever let the kids decide? I doubt it...

theProdigal

[AnnInLa]

35. You have obviously not spent much time in a classroom:

I teach in a poor, rural community....we are so poor, Teach For America regularly sends in teachers. I teach 6 classes per day with @ 25 students per class. By day 3 students are expected to have pencils, spiral notebooks, looseleaf paper and folders. On day 3 lessons begin, with over half of the students of each class not having their supplies. What should I do? Should I take my money and buy the supplies for those students who cannot afford to bring their own? I did that for years, am not doing it anymore. Have a cake bingo? I did that for years, am not doing it anymore. Should I visit each home, hoping to beg their parents to buy for yet another of their children? Should I postpone my teaching until the day when all students have their supplies (the Twelveth of Never?) What happens when I have to give a quiz, about 5 days into the teaching, and half the students don't have paper and pencil? In case you didn't know, schools in my state do not furnish school supplies any longer.

I receive the NEA Today magazine, so I know my situation is not unique...it is a common problem. So, if we are teaching Communism by sharing school supplies, so be it. Your view is so simplistic and unrealistic, it is laughable. All of the parents, school officials and students know that supplies are being shared, but until education in this country is properly funded, SHARING will continue.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

36. still not sharing; you can just twist in the wind on that one

if it were, you wouldn't have to defend it so...it is funny how when you attempt to change the meaning of a word you have to fight so damn hard to be believed.

So, why did you stop buying things for your students? Aye? Ask yourself that one? Your answer is quite obvious:

Should I take my money and buy the supplies for those students who cannot afford to bring their own? I did that for years, am not doing it anymore.

So, why should anyone else do the SAME DAMNED THING? All you were doing was sharing your resources and then decided to stop! Why should other people do exactly what you chose to STOP doing? You shouldn't have to spend your own money on that stuff...but neither should the other parents.

And how about funding? Hmmmm...funding keeps going up and yet somehow the classrooms are less and less functional! How about cutting out some of the bureaucratic crap and give the money to the schools to do with it what THEY NEED? Atlanta City Schools spends over $13,000/pupil/year. And the schools are falling apart...

Look, I KNOW the schools are being shafted and the teachers are getting the short end of the stick. I taught history in public school for three years before running screaming into the night. You should not have to make up that slack...but you also should not be able to FORCE other parents to carry the load for children that are not theirs. ASK??? Hell yes, and you and I know that many people would give. But you should know that you are teaching these kids abuse of power by taking from them that which THEY do not wish to give...LET THEM REALLY SHARE if that is what you believe...

theProdigal

OnEdit: and on your comment about my simplistic view...thanks for assuming so much about my knowledge of schools. It is nice to know that not only are you stealing from the kids you are supposed to be educating, but that you also are good at making statements about things of which you have no knowledge...I guess that goes toward your complete disregard for the meaning of the word sharing. Seriously, stop sharing your taxes and tell me in a few years about your definition of sharing. The government will share your ass right into bankruptcy and probably a little jail-time, to boot!

[AnnInLa]

39. stealing/sharing.....

Sharing is in the eye of the beholder....sorry you ran out screaming after only 3 years. I stuck it out, am still sticking it out. And, I am not stealing. When you can tell me what I am supposed to do on day 3 when I start teaching, but half the class can not participate because they don't have supplies, then I will consider your opinion as worthy of consideration...or when you return to the classroom, then I will consider your opinion as worthy of consideration. Until then, adios.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

40. petition those folks right in that lovely picture

the only problem I have with the scenario is taking things from the kids against their will. It is not something that you should be doing to them. I KNOW what they learn from it. They learn that power means that you can do what you will...and they do one of two things: they seek power so that they can have control or they resign themselves to a life in which they cannot win.

I had 30+ kids in my classes (three of the periods of the day I was teaching classes required to graduate). And there were several children who did not have the resources to bring to class that which was required. And how did I handle it? Easily. On day one of class (in my last year we were able to do this before class actually started) I sent home a list of require supplies for our class...nothing too heavy (like in a science class)...just a three ringed binder, college ruled paper, pencils (or pens) and dividers for the notebooks. On that list, I made a request of parents who were in the position to help if they would give...and the coffers overflowed. And then, on day five (when they were required to have the requested supplies), I made note of who did not have what was needed and then I approached them quietly and without involving the other students to ask them if they needed anything. It worked incredibly well. Nothing was taken from any one and no student was required to admit that they didn't have what they needed in front of the class.

It can be done differently than you do it...

theProdigal

OnEdit: dismissing someone's opinion is terribly closed-minded of you. There are plenty of people in the world who have never been in your shoes who might have wonderful ideas of how to solve your (and your school system's) problems. I may disagree with your tactics, but I certainly have not disregarded them as a method by which you can handle your situation. In a more perfect world, what you and I have had to do would not have been...
tP

[retnavyliberal]

45. gee, why buy my kid school supplies....

she can just get hers confiscated from some other child. Thanks for the idea. I can use the extra cash.

[Toots]

63. It is called taxation.. Bush* gave the wealthy their taxes back so now

we have to impose them on the children if we wish to have education at all. It is the child's first lesson in society. Those that have are to share with those that don't to make society as a whole work. Conservatives don't seem to want for society to work. They have the attitude of "Me Me Me Me Me" and screw everyone else. They must be lazy good for nothings if they don't have as much as me and I will not give any of mine for the betterment of all. It is not the Conservative way. Why do they need any society? They can afford to buy their own police protection and pave their own streets and if the less well off can't than that is just their tough luck. Right?????? Only in America is such GREED glorified.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

65. nice rant, Toots...

words mean things ... and calling this sharing is what I have a problem with...REAL sharing is what we should be striving for here...not confiscation...

theProdigal

[Toots]

67. Words mean things is correct.. Is this Communist Indoctrination?

That was what the article called this. You obviously are not comfortable with any redistribution of wealth. I say it is essential to any society whether Communist or Democracy. If it were not so we would not have Imminent Domain laws. We also have a somewhat Progressive Taxation system though only for the moment. Conservatives would certainly like to make it completely Regressive. Have you heard a lot of Children complaining about this? I would suspect it is only well off parents or some Right-wing editorial that are overly concerned. How do you feel when children have to come begging at your door for money for their school. The begging is disguised as selling tickets or pledging so much for number of laps swum or baskets made but begging it is. Does that concern you at all?

[ProdigalJunkMail]

68. NO WAY!

Not communist indoctrination at all and I agree that the article referenced by the OP is laughable. I have seen a lot of complaints (granted I am in the South) on this matter. The primary complaint seems to be that in an environment such as the one where the complaints have occured that this system gets abused by parents who do not 'have the time' (read that as "don't give a shit") to be bothered with obtaining the correct supplies for their kids...and it does happen.

When you give parents the opportunity to share rather than requiring it you usually get better results...

theProdigal

[Mizmoon]

26. that's kookytalk

Seriously. They never did that with my kid's supplies or mine when I was in school. In fact, we send in extras to share with any kids who don't have their own. That's a district tradition.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

28. well, even though AnnInLa and I disagree

she is a teacher and it happens in her classroom...so I guess it isn't quite as kooky as you think.

Look, I think it is great to take up collections of OFFERED items to share...but confiscating from the students is wrong...and it DOES happen...sorry you are so determined to reject that reality. Things might have changed since you and your children were in school...

theProdigal

[ProdigalJunkMail]

37. is it still kooky talk?

come on...tell me it isn't happening and tell AnnInLa (the teacher in this thread) that is isn't happening too...I guess she is just halucinating when she thinks she is taking those supplies...

theProdigal

[retnavyliberal]

42. It is district policy....

in Idaho where a friend of mine sends her kids.

[mutus_frutex]

10. I do think it is a pretty good idea.

Most kids are naturally selfish, especially at certain ages.

When I was a cub scouts leader in my home country, we asked them to bring food for our day outing and hikes. Then we took the food and made it into a common meal. Most of the older kids knew this and volunteered their food. The newer kids suffered the shock of having their food eaten by other kids.

Sharing doesn't come out naturally, it must be encouraged. And in this day when most parents are themselves quite selfish and raise spoiled kids, this kind of approach gives very good results.

Cheers.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

13. confiscating supplies is not teaching sharing

and teaching sharing should not be a function of the school, anyway. If the parents don't teach this to their children that is their choice. It is not the schools' job to correct bad parenting...

theProdigal

[mutus_frutex]

20. You are probably right..

I was just pointing out that from my personal experience, when it is done correctly, this method works. "confiscating" is not doing it correctly :-)

I do also partially agree with you when you say that schools shouldn't do parenting. For example, religious education (which is considered by most people in the US as an integral part of education, although I, as an atheist couldn't disagree most) should be completely left out of the curriculum. But that is a constitutional issue, more than anything else. That said, teachers would find quite difficult not to step onto some parenting issues. Just from my academic background I can give you a couple of examples: academic honesty and collaboration. These are truly social issues (quite related to the concept of sharing) that can't be ignored when teaching science. You have to deal with these issues, either passively (by giving bad scores to those that break the rules) or pro-actively (by having an open discussion and teaching honesty and collaboration).

The schools can't be dissociated from society since they are an integral part of it.

Cheers.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

22. i agree that they are an integral part of society

and the problem really is where to draw the line. Some parents would love to have the schools teach things like sharing and the like and some parents would have a near coniption over it. And I think the collaborative learning is great. And sharing CAN be taught in a much more constructive manner...give children the chance to share by asking...and then reward the behavior you wish to recreate. Whether or not we like it...we respond well to rewards...money, praise, whatever (I am not suggesting students be PAID for sharing...that is called selling!)

theProdigal

[K-W]

44. It isn't the best way to teach sharing, but it is a way to teach sharing.

Positive reinforcement is indeed the ideal method of teaching anything, that doesnt change the fact that compelling students to share IS teaching sharing.

[K-W]

43. See, this is where you are completely wrong.

You are spinning it.

How is having the class share with each other not teaching sharing? Since when are teachers not allowed to compell children to behave in ways in order to teach them to behave? Dont we teach children puncuality by forcing them to be on time? Dont we teach children to do math by forcing them to do math?

[ProdigalJunkMail]

47. i am sorry, but sharing is not something you force

Taking the items from these children against their will and giving it to someone else is not sharing in the child's eye...and that is what is important. Ask the child, "Where are your pencils and notebooks?" Give them two options : Did you share them? or Did the teacher take them from you? I bet I know the answer...I have been there.

And no, you do not force a child to do math. You do not force them to be on time. You punish the bad behaviors with bad grades or detention...the child is still making a choice. Taking something from them is NOT allowing them to make that choice. If you give them a choice to retain their possessions, then the situation changes...

theProdigal

[K-W]

48. Nobody is beating up children and taking thier stuff, you are spinnning

Just like with math if the child chooses not to follow the rules, the child is disciplined.

You also create a strawman by asserting that every time this is done it is done without a focus on sharing. I doubt that is the case. I suspect most teachers make it very clear that it is about sharing.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

49. I am not spinning...I have been there

and I have seen the little girl crying as the teacher takes away her notebooks and pencils (in a second grade classroom). That child was not being taught sharing. And I suspect that if a teacher tries to take something from a child and the child resists...well, that child can expect to be punished for trying to retain what was given to them by their parents.

I resent your implication with the spinning comment. If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes and been moved to act on it, then I probably wouldn't believe it either... Choice is huge here...not giving the child a choice is NOT teaching them sharing...you spin to your hearts content...taking and giving to someone else is not found in the definition of sharing...

theProdigal

[K-W]

50. Ive seen kids cry when forced to take tests.

What is your point?

Yes you were spinning, so id drop the resentment. You do have some legitamate points. Yes there is a property issue, but that does not make it unique. And yes, there is the issue that this can be a bad way to teach sharing.

Great, I agree on those points, but you mischarecterized the situation. Having students share as a rule is in fact a method of teaching sharing just as much as forcing students to be on time is a method of teaching puncuality. Does either method reliably produce the right behavior, no, because you are right, they arent effective, but it isnt some outrageous foriegn idea.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

53. it is wrong...and my children will not suffer it

it is like forced volunteerism...a nice little oxymoron. It is not sharing...seems you and I clashed before over word definitions...hmmmm

theProdigal

[K-W]

56. This has nothing to do with definitions.

School is not voluntary or didnt you get the memo.

Students are required by law to be there and are required while there to respect the authority of teachers and administrators and obey a strict set of rules.

You have invented some destinction between this particular situation and the many other situations where schools dictate what students do. You have created a strawman of educators running around stealing things from children.

I think you came to your misplaced outrage earnestly, but im sorry, it is misplaced.

This is a perfectly rational policy and is perfectly fair as long as students and parents are notified before hand.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

58. my outrage is over taking something from a student

against their will. If the students agree to it beforehand...great...no problem...they have made a decision to comply with a, granted, logical request to solve a particularly nasty problem. But, some people have no desire to participate in the program and should not be forced to do so. People already pay into school systems to support other kids and it is a benefit to the society as a whole. The schools should make better use of the moneys they have...and much of this could go away...

And some folks want their kid to have better things than others...and what is wrong with that? Nothing...

And, by the way, taking (stealing) from kids that do not wish to participate is a valid argument here...there is no fallacy in it...it happens and it mucks up this idea of sharing...'tis no strawman...

theProdigal

[countingbluecars]

51. I am there.

They don't "take and give to someone else"-they combine the supplies for use by the entire group. Also, the teachers I know who do this are quite capable of explaining to children why it is a good thing. Also they let parents know up front that this is their policy.

[K-W]

52. I was forced to buy notebooks by my teachers.

They dictated what I did with my property.

I can certainly see how this idea could be done badly, but there is not ethical problem with doing it right. If everyone in the class knows before the year even starts that the classroom shares supplies, what is the problem? Im sure people of means often take the opportunity to send thier children with extra supplies. I think if done right and respectfully this could be a great way to teach sharing with parent cooperation.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

54. if they dictated what you did with YOUR property

then it wasn't your property...

theProdigal

[K-W]

57. lol, very funny

Well this is where we find out that there is no such thing as absolute property, only varying level of control over non-human objects.

It is in fact my property legally. Which is the only place where property has any difinititive meaning.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

59. then they cannot dictate what YOU do with it

if it is yours...legally or no. If you don't control it (speaking solely of inanimate objects) then it isn't yours...it is the person's who can exert control...if you choose to surrender that control then so be it...but if it is forced from you...then it wasn't yours in the first place...

theProdigal

[David Dunham]

2. This guy needs one good kick in the kiester and 5 nights in the pokie

[LostInAnomie]

3. I have never understood why they attribute...

... "It takes a village to raise a child." to Hillary. It was an old Swahili saying and I think Gandhi said it as well.

Do these people have any idea what society would be like if no one cooperated? Do they ever think of the consequences of a society where the only reason you have to help someone is for economic reasons? They are sick.

[Fridays Child]

8. I guess they think she said it because of her book by that title.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

9. who owns the trademark on Satan?

...you said, Ask...

theProdigal

[Fridays Child]

12. Me. I'm pimping Satan, just like the RW fundies pimp Jesus.

In Bushworld, everything is a marketable commodity.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

14. you might want to ask Satan about that...

he might get a little rowdy when he finds out you are pimping his name...he might want a cut...and I'd bet he would know how to collect!

:evilgrin:

theProdigal

[northzax]

4. uh, cooperative learning?

you mean helping other people? right. see, the single best way to master a subject is to teach it to someone else. that is a skill being taught to children. it's not socialism it's education. get yer straw man heeah.

[Fridays Child]

5. You could probably find more metaphors for fascism and totalitarianism...

...in the classroom than he found for communism.

What a twit.

[Ian David]

11. Scary fundie group: Alliance for the Separation of School & State

Here's an interesting twist, though.

Someone who would otherwise be a great hero of mine has actually endorsed these fundie godhwacks.

Jillette, Penn
Las Vegas, NV 89118
Comedian
http://www.honestedu.org/view/display.php?state=NV


I sent Mr. Jillette an email asking him about this, but never heard back.

Otherwise, their list of endorsements reads as a laundry list of the far-right fringes.

http://www.honestedu.org/vips/index.php


Children need Honest Education
Separating School from State Is the Only Way to Get There

<snip>
Dishonest education deceives teachers, students, and parents by pretending that a person should "compartmentalize" his life. That means the Big Questions of Life can be discussed home and church but not brought into school, the workplace, or the political process.

Compartmentalizing causes a breakdown in the integrity of all who try it. We saw this breakdown at Enron, Arthur Anderson, WorldCom, etc. People who were in the church choir on Sunday were shredding audit reports on Monday. They were compartmentalizing their lives.

<snip>
Some of the Big Questions of Life

1. Why am I here? Is there any purpose to my life?
2. Why is there so much evil in the world? How can I know what is good and what is evil?
3. Why is there so much suffering in the world? How should I handle suffering of others? How should I handle my own?
4. Is there a Supreme Being? Does he care about us?
5. What is truth? Are there any permanent truths?

http://www.honestedu.org/index.php

[Sabriel]

64. Penn's a Libertarian, I believe. n/t

[mattclearing]

15. The Moonies are out of it.

Children already legally belong to the state.

Parents only get to keep them if they act responsibly.

That's what "ward of the state," means...the state has repo'ed its children.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

18. interesting take you have

"Children already legally belong to the state."

I bet there are a few legal scholars that might have a problem with your statement...

theProdigal

[mattclearing]

23. Try having a kid outside of a hospital, or not getting a social security #

[ProdigalJunkMail]

27. my wife delivered our child at home...

no problem...and since when does a social security number mean anything about ownership? I agree the government can punish you for illegal behaviors...but they don't own you...a little bit of difference there.

theProdigal

[mattclearing]

60. You know, I did some research, and you're right.

You don't have to get a Social Security Number, but that causes headaches down the line.

The main argument that I have heard, and am referring to, is that if the government can take away children for behavioral problems of the parent, then guardianship of children is somewhat arbitrary.

It's a similar argument to the notion that if one's freedoms can be revoked at a moment's notice, then that person was never very free to begin with.

Add the various requirements of having children in America, from schooling requirements to care-taking and social service laws, and there are significant restrictions to parents' ability to raise their children unfettered by government.

I imagine home-schoolers and libertarians care more about this than I do, but the main point is that government is the ultimate arbiter of whether one gets to keep his/her children.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

66. in our current incarnation of the USofA

there is no real ownership of anything (as pointed out by K-W above). Possession of anything (including your children) can be aribtrarily taken by the goverment and in some cases (DCS and IRS) there is no due process requirement..

Nice place we live in, aye?!?

theProdigal

[Warpy]

16. Rofl! Read between the lines in his bio

"Trevor released his first book in December 2001, a cookbook titled "50 Ways to Impress Your Girlfriend's Parents" (Silver Hammer Press). Since it is no longer in print, he is in search of a publisher with the foresight to realize this book could make millions. He is also co-authoring a book discussing the liberal indoctrination of children today."

http://www.americandaily.com/author/10

[Blue_Tires]

25. 'communist indoctrination?'

General Ripper IS alive and well after all these years, lol

[countingbluecars]

29. This makes me want to scream!

For one thing "cooperative learning" is an instructional method where students work together to solve a problem or complete a task. Each person is an important part of a group or team. It's about sharing ideas and responsibility. Isn't that what many businesses expect of their employees?

On the issue of "community" supplies, I have seen a few teachers collect (not "pilfer") supplies-usually in classrooms where desk space is limited. I, personally, don't like the idea. I remember how much fun it was to get new school supplies each fall. I would have hated to hand them over.

[walldude]

30. Maybe if the goddam repukes

would stop cutting school funding we wouldn't have to do things the hard way. Truth is my kids just took the "CSAP" test here in Colorado. This is part of the no child left behind act, I guess. Schools that aren't getting high enough marks get their funding cut even more. Which in Neo-Con America makes perfect sense. When my kids started going to school I was sickened(and still am) at how poorly the schools are funded. I have a "high-functioning autistic" child that goes to public school. He needs to be in some kind of special education or private school but we can't afford it. So we meet with teachers, school counselors, principals, and whoever, to work together on helping my son. Nothing ever comes of the meetings though. There is no money for special ed. The school councilor has her time spread between 3 schools. Yeah thats effective. 1 woman for a thousand kids. Anyone here wanting to bitch about teachers, about sharing, about teaching styles needs to go over to the Freepers and bitch at them. From where I'm sitting the teachers are doing the best they can, with under-funded, over-crowded schools.

[countingbluecars]

32. Thanks from a teacher.

In Virginia we have the SOLs (Standards of Learning). Same deal with the funding as part of NCLB. The pressure on students and teachers is ridiculous. It's nice to read a supportive statement. I've read many that aren't during my short time at DU.

[walldude]

46. You are quite welcome

I don't know if my kids school is the exception but most of the teachers there go way above and beyond the call of duty...

[Kber]

69. With apologies to Plaid Addler

Schools that aren't getting high enough marks get their funding cut even more. Which in Neo-Con America makes perfect sense.... if you're rich.

[no_hypocrisy]

34. In 1964, my 2d grade teacher taught my class to sing protest

songs like "Blowin' in the Wind" and "Where Have All the Flowers Gone?". Guess that means my freewill was taken away and I was "brainwashed" per the Moonies who ought to be experts on that topic.

BTW, the songs were THE BEST part of my public school experience.

[madinmaryland]

70. Wow! Can you imagine that happening today?

No way in hell. The only thing they would do is have say the plegde of allegiance and have a few moments of silence. Nothing that could ever be considered enlightening.

[Emboldened Chimp]

38. I'm baffled that this would be published in a newspaper with...

...national distribution. We really have gone over the edge.

[CatholicEdHead]

41. Moonie Times quoting World Nut Daily

that should tell you all you need to know.

[Stop_the_War]

55. The neo-cons want a dumbed down population..

:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:
which is why they hate public education.

[Vladimir]

61. If only this was true!

On the first point, the sharing of knowledge, it is the only way to prepare you for a life in which you will have to work with other people most of the time. Teaching basic social skills like helping people out with something you are good at but they are not is not very communist, its common goddamn sense. Funnily enough, I lived in a Communist country (Yugoslavia in the 80s), and went to primary school there, and there was no emphasis on group learning at all. None. In fact, the one teacher who tried to bring it in was educated in the UK. So go figure.

On the second point, the sharing of supplies... well I am sure you see where this is going. If your neighbor asks you for sugar what are you gonna say: 'Stay away from my private property you communist bastard!"?? Yeah right. This is teaching people that when working as a group, resources are pooled to make best use of them. It is utterly essential to getting people equipped to work in almost any academic or corporate environment - hell in almost any job barring literary criticism. One of the biggest problems you see, time and again, with university graduates when they get to 'real life' or postgraduate studies is that they are incapable of working in a team. Maybe its just my bias as a doctoral student, but we share code for our analysis and other intellectual 'property' freely - if I come up with something useful, everyone gets to use it straight away. I'm not gonna turn around to my fellow students/researchers and say: this is my property, pay if you want it; that would be counterproductive and silly. If I were to build a useful measuring tool tomorrow, you are damn right that it would go to the department for anyone to use. Not because I am a communist, but because I want to be able to access other people's skills in the same way - I recognize that my own abilities are limited, and that what I can accomplish depends enormously on how well I utilize the resources and expertise of others. And for that they need to be willing to share it with me, and dammit if we are not gonna teach kids about that in school what the hell will we teach them?

[seabeyond]

62. bush created this very thing in no child left behind

just got into public, was doing private. so this whole taks test thing is new. sitting with sons teacher, who son in law is in iraq, she obviously a bush supporter and defending taks. i tell her the good i see in it, (and i see a couple good) is my son really smart, but he doesnt care about grades. as long as a or b, he never studies, to easy to pull those grades

i told her, i tell my son he has to go into these tests and be sure he does extra well, because they take the grades as a whole to see if a school succeeds or fails. so because he is above average he has to work extra hard on these tests to help bring up grade of his fellow student, lol lol lol

she is gasping for air, trying to say, no individual, it is about individual preformance. i say, but the greater in it, my son knows he is smart doesnt have to prove it, but to bring in a greater responsibility for fellow students, now that is what inspires my boy

was just great

so i have been thinking how they created a socialist program in our public schools. bad bushie, bad