If the rapture happened today where would you be?

[dhinojosa]

Inane Poll: If the rapture happened today where would you be?

[evlbstrd]

1. And checkin' out all those empty cars and houses n/t

[liberalitch]

9. Damn skippy....

and thar ya have it!

[mainer]

47. You mean in all those trailer parks? n/t

[Xipe Totec]

2. Squaring Ashlars nt.

[ChickMagic]

3. Looting all the raptured folk n/t

[mzmolly]

4. There is no such thing.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0813391563/102-2559352-0748968



;)

[ewagner]

11. Good news

This book should be widely, widely distrubuted.......

[mzmolly]

16. Agreed. A Lutheran Theology teacher wrote this as well. Her name is

Barbara Rossing.

* I tried to tell my Lutheran family members that the "left behind" bs, is infact bs, but I'm not so sure they're ready to give up their comfort in unfounded fear just yet. ;)

Though there are other books like it, I believe her's is very widely regarded.

http://www.lstc.edu/people/faculty/individual/rossing.html




Education
B.A. Carleton College
M.Div. Yale Divinity School
Th.D. Harvard Divinity School

[TwentyFive]

21. Thanks for "The Rapture Exposed" book link! I'll buy a copy for a fundie!!

[mzmolly]

29. Great. See post #16 for the authors credentials.

;)

[xray s]

34. That is an excellent book that everyone here should read!

The myth of the Rapture is the myth that binds the religious far right together. If you want to understand how they think, you have to understand how they view the world.

Mainstream religions DO NOT subscribe to this myth. The book mentioned here is written by a Lutheran theologian. The Catholic church rejects the Rapture myth. 2000 years ago, NO religion even heard of the Rapture myth. It came to this country in the 1800's from England, carried by a guy named John Nelson Darby, an ex-Anglican priest. He strung a bunch of bible verses together out of context, and developed the Rapture myth, which also happens to be contrary to the gospel message of Christ himself.

You can learn more about mainstream opposition to the Rapture myth here;

http://www.higherthings.org/imgs/content/LeftText.htm

http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=5788

http://www.elca.org/jle/articles/contemporary_issues/article.hafften_ann_e.html

[mzmolly]

36. Indeed, as Rossing states Armageddon is a distortion of the Faith

Thanks for the info. :hi:

[mim]

60. If the rapture happened

While I might possibly be taken away if the rapture took place, that's a BIG, BIG if. Nevertheless, I don't want my disbelief in a pre-tribulation rapture to imply disbelief in the Lord whose coming all this stuff is supposed to precede.

The only honest answer for a Christian is "don't know."

We Lutherans don't believe in this dispensational premillennialism. A few of us do, I'm sure, but they've been influenced by religious currents outside Lutheranism. It's probably for their sake that there's something on the ELCA Website. Of course, anything's possible. The big question, as it so often is, is what is probable?

I'm glad that these anti-Darby books are being published. (Thank you, xray s, for putting the blame on John Nelson Darby where it belongs. Neither Hal Lindsey nor Tim LaHaye invented this stuff.)

[mzmolly]

75. Indeed. This version of Christianity should actually be called "Darbyism"

or "Darbianity." ;)

Jesus didn't preach the "Rapture."

[journalist3072]

40. The rapture is very real, my friend

While the Bible does not specifically use the word 'rapture,' it talks about us being "caught up" in the clouds to meet Christ in the air. Here is the scriptural reference:

1 Thessalonians 4:17 (King James Version)

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Botton line: the rapture is real.

[immoderate]

41. Can I have your car?

--IMM

[journalist3072]

44. First of all, I do not own a car. Secondly...

I do NOT subscribe to the theory of the Left Behind series. The Left Behind series basically says that when the Rapture occurs, all of a sudden, the Christians will disappear, and non-believers will be wondering "where did everyone go?" They even use the example that reportedly, some airliners have purposefully hired non-Christians to co-pilot planes with Christians, so that when the Rapture happens, a non-Christian will be left behind to pilot the plane.

I do NOT believe that is what is going to happen. There is nothing in the scripture to support that kind of rapture.

The Rapture is not going to be some secret event. When it happens, everyone will know that it has happened!

[immoderate]

46. Do you think that everything you believe is true?

As opposed to the rest of us, who have false beliefs?

--IMM

[journalist3072]

52. No, I know I am not right on everything...

However, when it comes to the rapture, and all matters of religion, I look to the Bible to see what the Lord has said. And that is all I can go by. That is what I believe---what the Lord has said.

My point in all this was that 1) I believe the rapture is very real, because the Bible tells me it is and 2) I do not subscribe to the basic principles of the Left Behind series, which basically says that one day, all the Christians will disappear, and all the non-Christians will be wondering "where did everyone go?"

[immoderate]

53. Do you think God spoke through Balaam's ass?

--IMM

[journalist3072]

55. No disrespect, but what I think is that you should read the Bible! eom

[immoderate]

58. Thanks for the tip!

On edit: I'm sure you mean well. I have read it. Just that I have read other things too, and I don't believe everything I read just because it's in a book. You take it literally, I don't. It's got good stories, which is why it's around so long. Predictions made from biblical text just don't come true in my experience. On the day, you'll be able to look back and say, "I told you so."

My recommendation, read Mark Twain.

--IMM

[journalist3072]

62. Well, I am of the belief that...

You can't dissect the Bible, take the parts that you like, and then discard the parts you don't like. You either believe the entire Bible, or believe none of it.

[immoderate]

65. To each his own, of course.

I like some parts of it. I don't "believe" it. And there are of course, a few who do as you do. I'm sure you know that you are in the minority, even among believers. I have gotten that view from ordained clergy.

There are too many contradictions in the work to make it's strict interpretation viable to me. But people's beliefs are as arbitrary as their tastes. I'll apologize for the levity, but I can't think of anything that would change my orientation. Maybe a visit from the big guy himself. S, if he wants me to believe, he knos what he has to do.

--IMM

[mzmolly]

74. I actually have read the Bible, cover to cover. As has Barbara Rossing

and many other Scholars who dispute the John Darby version of the Bible.

[LdyGuique]

67. Glad to hear I don't have to read more of the bible just to disprove

somes, yet again. I figure I'll just let the Christians duke it out over the bible and rapture -- these two reverends who are intimate with the bible posted reviews on the Amazon site

Reviewer: The Rev. Stephanie Chase Wilson (Sunderland, MD United States) - See all my reviews

Excellent book. I found it riveting and read it in one day. It is a clear and easy read. It outlines how there is no "Rapture" found in scripture. This is a false theology invented 170 years ago by piecing together unrelated biblical texts and then tossing in some extra stuff. It's not even a literal interpretation of the Bible. Yet one of the challenges of the theology is its impact on foreign policy and the environment today. Having a true interpretation of endtimes, as actually found in scripture, will correct many hurtful and sinful policies currently practiced by those who adhere to the Rapture theology. Rossing also opposes the violence associated with a Rapture interpretation of the book of Revelation.

She then goes on to give a very comprehensive and persuasive argument for what Revelation actually says. Violence is of mankind; "Lamb power" and testimony are of God. Jesus is "Emmanuel," Hebrew for "God with us." God does not take us up from Earth, Rapture the faithful away, but comes down to Earth, to be with us and heal our wounds. I think this book is recommended reading for anyone who has ever read the Left Behind series. It will also be helpful for church Bible study and discussion groups.


Reviewer: Episcopal Church Princeton "Padre Steve" (Princeton, NJ United States) - See all my reviews

If you want to be entertained with an exciting, but very whacky story, then read the LEFT BEHIND series. But if you want to be able to separate solid biblical interpretation from something that has been made up out of whole cloth and then has served as a basis for a money making machine and some very questionable political positions, then read this book first. It is good, solid, scholarly biblical interpretation. I'm just afraid that those who are persuaded that the LEFT BEHIND series is based in "truth" won't bother to read Rossing's book and be thoughtful about this issue. Great book which deserves a lot of attention!

[mzmolly]

72. ROTFLMAO!

:toast:

[SoCalDem]

57. "real" according to the "people" who wrote the stories

:)

In case it IS real, I think a lot of "rapturistas" will be unpleasantly surprised.

they may get the boomerang rapture...straight to hell..no passing go..no collecting $200..nothing :)

That would almost be worth hanging around to see.:)

[Mr_Spock]

80. Yes, the people who believe this and like to see people die are clearly

going to be quite surprised when THEIR reconing happens. I don't believe it "rapture" or "hell", so it can't have any effect on me.

[mzmolly]

71. Bottom Line: Bologna. The bible is full of metaphors. While I'm not a

Biblical Scholar, Barbara Rossing and others who think the Rapture theory is a distorted view of the Bible are.

The idea of "The Rapture"--the return of Christ to snatch born-again Christians off the earth--is an extremely popular interpretation of the Book of Revelation in the Bible and a jumping-off point for the best-selling Left Behind series of books. However, most Christian churches and biblical scholars condemn rapture theology as a distortion of Christian faith with little biblical basis. Yet this interpretation, based on a psychology of fear and destruction, guides the daily acts of thousands if not millions of North Americans and people worldwide.

...

In The Rapture Exposed, professor of theology and ordained minister Barbara Rossing argues that the Left Behind novels' script for the world's future distorts the Bible, is disingenuous, and flat out wrong. There is neither "rapture" of Christians off the earth, nor does Revelation predict that a seven-year tribulation culminating in war in Israel and the Middle East. Rather, Rossing argues, Revelation offers a vision of God's healing love for the world - a love that will not be left behind. The Rapture Exposed makes the case for reclaiming Christianity from fundamentalists' destructive reading of the biblical story and back into God's beloved community.

I agree with Ms. Rossing.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0813391563/102-2559352-0748968

[Mr_Spock]

79. The bible is a book of fairy tales - how can you use THAT as a reference?

C'mon :eyes:

[Walt Starr]

5. In a fantasyland

because even if the Bible was 100% correct, The Rapture would STILL be a fantasy has it has no basis in the Bible whatsoever.

[dave123williams]

6. Amazed at the lack of hate speech coming out of the media?

[liberalitch]

7. Well I still have my john kerry sticker on my car so....

So the baby jesus will know (as I told some of y'all before) that I never voted for the anti-christ

[KaliTracy]

83. LOL! n/t

[onehandle]

8. Looking forward to a Democratic sweep in the next election. nt

[mim]

61. Do you mean because the Republicans would be raptured away?

[onehandle]

77. No. Morons of all types. nt

[wtbymark]

10. oh, i'd be sittin in my house playin or listening to music and...

god (or jesus, or whatever) would knock on the door, i'd answer, look around discerning the situation, look at him and say "no thanks, don't want any", and the entity or bookseller would reply; "this is when you are to be judged". I would again reply, "no thanks, im a philosopher that does not ascribe to your view", shut the door, and resume my day.

[blogslut]

12. I'll be

In heaven with the rest of the folks who knew Bush was the false prophet and Rove was the anti-christ

[Withywindle]

13. Sittin' right here at my desk.

I'm in Chicago. Nothing would seem out of the ordinary here. :D

[ComerPerro]

14. Id be laughing at all the born again fundies who are wondering

why they are still here.

[heidler1]

15. Pure BS, this ain't never going to happen so get a life.

Why would any God find any satisfaction in putting up with humans?

[HeeBGBz]

17. Sailing up to the sky

And waving at all the fundies who are standing on the ground mouths agape, heads exploding, because they weren't on the "in" list and Jesus doesn't have their number.

[xxqqqzme]

18. checking out vacant beach

front properties.....and dancing 4 joy.

[Sentath]

19. Toledo!

*blink blink*

Sorry, I have _no_ idea why I said that. But when I read the thread title I almost said it out loud.

*shrug*

[UdoKier]

20. I sure hope I'd be left behind.

I would hate to spend an eternity with the fundies.

[bowens43]

22. I'd be out in the parking lot looking for a new car!!

[Jamastiene]

23. It depends on

who is actually right. If the Falwells of the world are right, I'll definitely be left behind. If the Jessie Jacksons of the world are right, I may be sitting pretty in a nice meadow full of cats, rainbows, and other gay people. I can't say, because I am not see a clear answer to my questions.

[jakefrep]

24. I don't know...

We'll be taken away. The fundie crackpots will be "left behind." The fundies will deny the rapture actually happened because "if it had, we would have been swept up to heaven."

[Lydia Leftcoast]

25. Like most Christians, I don't believe in it

:shrug:

[ProfessorGAC]

26. Fourth Option - I Don't Care!

I admit i don't know, but it really doesn't matter to me either. This is like asking what i would do with a perpetual motion machine. I don't believe in such a thing, so i don't have any concern about them either.
The Professor

[Warpy]

27. In the closest fundy church looking at all

the shocked expressions on their piggy faces when they realize THEY got left behind.

I'm a heathen and don't expect unbelievers to be a part of it.

[silverlib]

28. This is such a silly poll - Don't you know...

that it has already happened? The poll should be "Where were you when..."

[Salviati]

30. Other: Driving my fleet of new cars!

[LostInAnomie]

31. How do we know it hasn't happened yet?

Only 144,000 are going to be taken. That many people could disappear and no one would notice.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

73. See, that's why this is so much bunk.

Since Christ spoke about His Father having many rooms in His mansion, why then would it only house 144,000 people. Christ is the ultimate "uniter" and includes everyone in his flock...I can't see Him posting a cut off number. The Bible also hints that we are not to speculate on those things, let alone make big bucks on book royalties.

[Norquist Nemesis]

32. The meek shall inherit the earth

So, I guess I'm stuck here.

[mzmolly]

37. Ooooooooohhhhhhhhh, I like that train of thought.

;)

[Norquist Nemesis]

84. GTMA!

:)

[dave123williams]

39. That's ok; they're just a bunch of MEEKS! We take it right back from them

[KansDem]

33. Taking advantage of all the "Rature Day Sales..."

Hoo-wee! I need a garden tiller, new DVD player, and some more socks!

Bring it on!!!

[knight_of_the_star]

35. Having lots of fun

I'm not Christian and don't believe in that crap, so when it happens, if it happens, I'm fully expecting my Gods to come back to Earth and start the biggest party in history.

[DemoTex]

38. Donkeys talk, people fly and a man named Jesus in the sky.

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/christianreader.html

[xchrom]

42. there are no fundies in heaven.

and they know it.
they are deceivers, satanists -- spreading the word of hate.

heaven parties!
O8)

[mwb970]

43. Why are the "Left Behind" books so popular?

Are they actually any good, or are they for True Believers only?

[MsTryska]

45. i don't know.

if Judgement is Old testament Judgement, then i'd prolly get Left behind.


but if it's new testament Hippie Jesus style-judgement, i'd prolly get raptured up. which is a cruel joke, because i kinda wanna stick around and rebuild the world as some sort of post-apocalyptic heroine.

[Deja Q]

48. Dunno. It depends on what the Almighty thinks of each of us.

Let's hope we're good enough.

[Swamp Rat]

49. I wish it would happen already.

I need a new car, house, clothes, a job...

C'mon Jeebus! Take 'em NOW!, so we can have a happy Earth! Don't forget fundies from other religions and the politicos as well!

[B Calm]

50. I'll be on the rich mans yacht and smiling...

[SmokingJacket]

51. I'm very, very nice.

I'm an empathetic friend and never say mean things about people.

I'm kind to animals and children, and I give to charities.

However... I don't accept jesus as my savior.

Guess I'm S.O.L!

[ZombieNixon]

54. Stealing the car of some guy

with an "In Case of Rapture, This Car Will Be Unmanned" bumper sticker.

[SoCalDem]

56. Moving into an empty McMansion & trying on jewelry "left behind"

:)

[Mz Pip]

59. Hiding in the closet

The Rapture sounds really scary. I'd hide until it was over. Then I'd go hunting for some really good champagne and celebrate the absense of the fundie nut cases.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[Padraig18]

63. No Christian would presume to know the answer.

It's not ours to know.

[DearAbby]

64. Be out salvaging all the SUVs sitting with keys in them :)

[starmaker]

66. Rapture Cancelled !!!

Think We Be

[LdyGuique]

68. Dammit! I thought we were gonna get lucky and send all the

fundies off to God and have some great elections once again!

[annabanana]

69. watching the astonished faces of the hard core fundies as all the

"godless" liberals gently rise and their massive error becomes evident to even them.

[VermonterInExile]

70. I've chewed on several gods...

...but I ended up spitting them all out. Now I'm completely godless.

I don't believe in individual souls, only individual bodies. I picture us all as snowflakes falling down on water, melting into one-ness when we hit.

Though that's might be getting a little too Kucinich for y'all (though I was a Deanie myself.)

[ChairOne]

76. Washing clothes, getting ready for work tomorrow..

Catching Everybody Loves Raymond, if I didn't forget...

[arwalden]

78. Left Behind... And GLAD About It...

Who needs all that shit?

[Chomp]

81. I would act...

...completely rationally, cooly accepting that I had been mistaken all along and hope (although, at that stage, I guess it would be pray) that the, er...Rapturer and his, erm, Rapturees could see it in their hearts to take me along for the ride despite my errant ways.

I'll tell them it was the damned marijuana's fault...the devil had me in his grasp, I'll earnestly explain.

[Spirochete]

82. Picking up all the Rolex watches, etc..

[IrateCitizen]

85. I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints...

... because the sinners are much more fun!

Seriously, if the rapture came and all of the Talibornagains were swept up, I would prefer an eternity of hellfire and gnashing of teeth than in heaven with a God who actually endorses their brand of narrowmindedness and bigotry.