"Worshiping our military" or "supporting our troops?"

[hector459]

I respect and admire our soldiers when they are performing honarably to serve and protect our country. I do not support troops who actually behave as "scum" because they have on a uniform and carry a weapon.

There is no question that many of our troops cross the line just as many of our police officers do. Many are admitted to these forces having hidden agendas and severe psychological problems and are misfits in society in general. They join these organizations to have a legitimate excuse to abuse, kill, and control. MANY OTHERS DO NOT!! They are serious about trying to do what is right and necessary and they make mistakes. The difficulty for civilians comes in differentiating among the two groups. I know enough about both the military and civilian police to know that the evil, dangerous ones get away with a lot because others protect them (those who protect them would like to be like them but are too cowardly to carry out the necessary actions).

We here all know the truth. There are good and bad people in every walk of life including church (BTK). The freedom to have an opinion about either side should not bring down the wrath of posters or mods. Can't we all act as adults? If one does not agree with an opinion, offer a refutation without slandering or demeaning the poster with an opposing point of view. We are beginning to sound more and more like the people we say we despise.

All this being said, anyone who thinks that it is ok to moderate a conservative site and expect to be welcomed here is living in lala land. We don't need you here...go where you are welcomed.

[Hugin]

1. That's the real world...

I hope you feel better with that off your chest
hector459.

Tell it like it is!

:)

[mmonk]

2. I presently know two people

serving in Iraq and I will not blanketedly verbally attack the troops. I also will not in anyway put any 'I support the troops' stickers and what not on my vehicle or such, but support them in real ways like sending them requests on things they need. The visible "support the troops" mantra I've seen for the most part is a blindly follow the president's policy movement. I still see signs in people's yards that proclaim they support president bush and the troops. When it comes to what I believe this country stands for, it will not be to be in lockstep with this kind of foreign policy directive.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[democrank]

4. Worshiping or supporting? Meaningful question.

Some people demand that all U.S. troops be worshipped no matter what. I disagree and certainly don`t worship the Soldier-of-Fortune types or the ones that sport a slash mark on their helmets for every person they killed or the soldiers who think they can do whatever they want to whomever they choose simply because they`re Americans. Hauling a naked person around on a leash doesn`t deserve adoration.

My active support of veteran`s issues goes back decades. So does my anti-war activism. The hysterical militarism so prevalent today is as dangerous a phenomenon as any I`ve seen. It completely eliminates critical thinking from the war equation and paints any who don`t follow the Pentagon`s plans as unpatriotic wimps.

Many Democrats have fallen into the no-questions-asked-support-the-troops trap. It`s ridiculous to agree to "prove" ourselves according to the current hysterical standards.

The best way to support the troops is to march against the war.

[FloridaPat]

5. People should not attack the troops directly until they've served.

I have a feeling war is not pleasant. Especially this one. These guys are under constant death threat. Their government lied to them. The food is bad. For awhile there they had trouble getting water because the Haliburton people were too scared to deliver to a war zone. They are not allowed out of the service when their time is up. They are loosing jobs and wives and they are really in a shitty position. The people who should be attacked are the people that put them in that position.

[Rebellious Republican]

6. Well said FloridaPat, I have it before and I will say it again.........

Most of these kids are in because of economic reasons.

I can not find fault in someone for wanting to better themselves or their situations.

I had no college grants, trust funds or wealthy parents waiting for me, it was my only way out!

I can however find fault in those that make the policies that put these kids in the position they are.

Yes, I can support our troops, that includes all of them.

I remember when I was young, I did things that I would no longer do today because I am older and wiser. A lot of them do not understand (yet) what they have gotten themselves into.

They are young and impressionable, and easily led astray, do any of you (older ones) remember when you were young?

Also, if you have never served in a combat situation, then you have no understanding of what it is like. It does really weird things to the mind.

I can not even to begin to describe the feelings and emotions that these kids are experiencing, I won't even try.

[IndianaGreen]

7. People that are not vets may not be aware that soldiers, sailors, & airmen

have to follow the UCMJ, the book of rules that govern the military. Under the UCMJ, and under the treaties to which the US is a party, it is illegal to commit war crimes, shoot defenseless civilians, and torture prisoners.

It was soldiers that reported the My Lai massacre (and it was a Major Colin Powell who tried to cover it up). It was soldiers that reported the abuses at Abu Graib, and the killings of civilians by other soldiers.

Many of those that sport the "Support the Troops" ribbons on their vehicles are of the opinion that troops in the field should bear no responsibility for any criminal actions that they engage in. They are the ones that give the troops a blanket immunity by saying that they were following orders and that Bush alone bears the blame. Such a view is wrong, and it is not condoned by the UCMJ.

Rightwingers supported criminals like Lt. Calley and condemned the chopper pilot that risk his career by stopping Calley's men from continuing to kill Vietnamese peasants. Rightwingers laughed at the Canadian troops that were killed by a bomb in Afghanistan dropped by an American pilot high on GO Pills. Rightwingers worship militarism and shrug off war crimes. Rightwingers love war and enjoy seeing people of color being blown to bits by our bombs.

If you support the troops, you should want them all here at home, not fighting some war to fatten the pockets of the arms merchants and corporate friends of the President.

[hector459]

11. Sadly, you make some great points.

I agree. Ignorance is not only "bliss" for some, it is prefered by many.

[LynnTheDem]

8. Soldiers are JUST PEOPLE. Before Iraq, some troops were rapists,

murderers, thieves, drunks, tricksters, wife-beaters.

Some of these same people have been ordered to Iraq, where they continue to rape, beat, murder, steal.

But just as NOT ALL AMERICANS are good little angels, and NOT ALL AMERICANS are nasty evil criminals, NOT ALL SOLDIERS are good and NOT ALL SOLDIERS are bad.

They are JUST PEOPLE and like any large group of people, most are decent, some are not, never have been and never will be.

The INDIVIDUALS who commit crimes should and must be held accountable. THAT is NOT "bashing soldiers".

And that is my very firm opinion spoken as the long-time wife of a current active-duty soldier & veteran.

[zanana]

9. I see what I see.

You may have served in a horrible war. But that does not mean that I have to "support" anyone who espouses right-wing ideas just because they are in uniform. Military service does not absolve them of everything. I lives through the 60's. The reports of soldiers being spit at are GREATLY exaggerated! Most of us respected soldiers coming home from Vietnam, but every conservative gasbag on talk radio was telling lurid stories of returning vets, and being "spit on" was their favorite line. It really pissed off the right and made them fight. Sound familiar?

[TWiley]

10. Neither, it is worshiping the policy of the bushtapo

which put the troops in Iraq, and it affirms the notion that it is blasphemous to question the divine right of our lordship to take whatever action he deems necessary

[independentchristian]

12. Great question

I think fascism includes a glorification of the military, according the the article that Thom Hartman wrote or either the essay on the 14 points of fascism.

[kiraboo]

13. When asked if I support the troops, my response must be

"Define 'support'". My concern and respect for the troops is not without limits. As somebody said above, soldiers are people and people must be evaluated individually according to deed and motive. Would I encourage any one of my three children to join the military? Hell, no, and for a whole bunch of reasons which are obvious to most people here. Having said that, I wouldn't recommend that any of my kids become gas-station attendants either and it's not because I don't respect these people and their choices.