please help me with this freeper crap e-mail

[booley]

I know somebody had a really good rebuttel of this freeper e-mail going around but I can't seem to find it now.

" Can  You Name This Country?
709,000REGULAR (ACTIVE DUTY) PERSONNEL.
293,000RESERVE TROOPS.
EIGHTSTANDING ARMY DIVISIONS.
20  AIR  FORCE AND NAVY AIR WINGS WITH 2,000COMBAT AIRCRAFT.
232STRATEGIC BOMBERS.
19STRATEGIC BALLISTIC MISSILE SUBMARINES WITH 3,114NUCLEAR WARHEADS ON 232MISSILES.
500ICBMs WITH 1,950WARHEADS.
FOUR  AIRCRAFT  CARRIERS AND 121SURFACE COMBAT SHIPS AND SUBMARINES PLUS ALL THE SUPPORT BASES, SHIPYARDS, AND  LOGISTICAL ASSETS NEEDED TO SUSTAIN SUCH A NAVAL  FORCE.
IS  THIS COUNTRY:
RUSSIA?NO
CHINA?NO
GREAT  BRITAIN?NO
FRANCE?WRONG AGAIN
MUST  BE USA?STILL WRONG
GIVE  UP?
THESE  ARE THE AMERICAN MILITARY FORCES THAT WERE ELIMINATED DURING THE  ADMINISTRATION OF BILL CLINTON AND AL  GORE.
SLEEP  WELL!........."

Thanks for any help...

[No Exit]

1. How's about you get some of those pictures of the coffins

being flown to Dover AFB (check thememoryhole.org) and put them in your reply, and say, "These are some of the American military forces that were eliminated during the administration of George W. Bush. Sleep well!"

[neweurope]

3. Yay! Great answer!

:yourock:

-------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[No Exit]

7. Thanks!!

[livvy]

2. How about...

well, when you don't go around attacking and invading other countries, killing their innocent civilians, and stealing their natural resources, you don't need as many troops.

[China_cat]

4. Tell him to check the numbers again.

A lot of those closings were ordered by Bush Sr. and a lot of the rest pushed...hard...by the Repubs to cut the budget.

And he might want to take a look at this one:
http://www.mindfully.org/Nucs/Bush-Close-Nuke-Bases.htm

[bush_is_wacko]

11. Those closings were actually first discussed during the REAGAN

administration. Personally, I think that is ONE of the reasons for the attempt on his life and yes, I believe it was a PLANNED, inside operation, with Rummy and Poppy at the helm. It took all those years for closings to actually occur and those numbers are WAY off. The deals that were made prevented about 50% of those closings! Also, as another poster mentioned, if America didn't engage in pre-emptive strikes and nation building we wouldn't NEED that many military personnel or that many bases. Tell your friend he ought to review bushole's budget and get the REAL low2 down on what he wants to do to our military...cut their benefits, increase their deductibles, put medical caps on the amount the government will pay out to an injured soldier. Limit death benefits to ONLY those that died in combat and even some of those wouldn't qualify for death benefits! Your emailer has obviously fallen victim to the sheeple, kool-aid syndrome. A little dose of reality is in order!

[papau]

16. True - Cheney ordered the downsize and put it in thepipeline.

Clinton cuts of the Military over and above the planned Cheney cuts are near NADA.

But in GOP world down is up - and that is the way our media will report it since they never - on their own - question a GOP statement.

[alfredo]

20. The Hinkley family and the Bush family are

close. Neil Bush was to have dinner with the Hinkley's on the day John shot Ronnie.

[bush_is_wacko]

24. I know, I live in Colorado> The Hinkley's are from here.

What surprises me OFTEN, in fact DAILY, is how many Coloradoans have forgotten that little tidbit. The Silverado scandal of that era ALSO took place here in Colorado and not many people remember that either. We have had a HUGE influx of people here in the last 2 decades and I often wonder if it wasn't some kind of wingnut ideologue telling their resident fundies to "go west young man" like the Mormons did in Utah!

Churches here are becoming massive and not the good old Catholic, Protestant, Presbyterian, etc. kind of churches either. These "Non-Denominational" cult-like, members only, style churches are what I'm talking about. They basically breed hatred for anyone that refuses to attend their churches or has the audacity to outright call them what they are... CULTS! We have two with over 4000 members a piece owned apparently by the same guy that used to own the largest car dealership in the state. Elway has taken that position from the guy I believe, but it doesn't matter, the churches alone have probably increased the guy's income a hundred fold! There are also some smaller churches that are rapidly developing into imitations of the other one! I have lived most of my life in Colorado and can say with certainly that Colorado natives are NOT representative of this group of people. Funny enough the ministers of these churches are MOST often from Texas when you read their bylines and listen to their sermons as I have done! I intended one for investigation purposes and none of the higher ups were actually from this state!

The two big churches have their campuses covering what looks to be about two to three city blocks of space to include schools, acconting offices, concert halls, and football and sports complexes! Doesn't that sound like a Mormon style religion?

[alfredo]

27. That's happening here too.

Under that hip veneer on the front range of the rockies was a very reactionary undercurrent.

[bush_is_wacko]

28. Where are you? I believe this is a movement that is EVERYWHERE

right now and it does look like it is a deliberate movement IMO rather than just the natural progression of a particular region of the country. Coloradoans were just your ordinary lot of people 20 years ago. In fact, if anything they leaned liberal. We had one of the most liberal governors ever to exist on the planet as far as I'm concerned. I really didn't care much for him, not because he was liberal, but because he didn't do much of anything but Dick Lamm was liberal to the bone! He maxed out his terms so obviously people voted for him. All these people that claim Coloradoans are red and have always been red have either never lived in the metropolitan area or are relatively new to the state as in the last 20 years. I consider that new because I have been here nearly 40 years. I was born here, left for a while and came back. 60's hippies were attracted to this place in large numbers because of its natural beauty and liberal ways, but the particular influx of people I'm referring to started about 15 years ago. These people are very strange indeed. Certainly not typical of natives. Don't get me entirely wrong, I do think it is a conservative version of liberal values, but nothing like it's been portrayed. Colorado Springs has always had the Air Force Academy so there have always been Republican leanings there but until 10-15 years ago that place was a cow town, truly. It has BOOMED over the last 10 years or so, mostly with wing nuts!

[alfredo]

35. The front range is very progressive, but in my cycling through Colorado

I found people who resented the very things that made the region desirable. I lived in Denver and Boulder in the seventies. Loved it.

I am now living in Central Kentucky, in a fairly progressive town. Even then it votes Republican in national elections.

Did you read about that church that had a men only service that was nothing more than a recruitment vehicle for the war. That was in my town.

[bush_is_wacko]

36. I did read that article. Do you remember hearing about McCartney

here in Colorado? He was the CSU football coach, I think. I don't follow college football much so I might have the wrong college. anyway he was the founder of an all male religious movement, Promise Keepers (CULT). He is a nut case without a doubt. At first I admired what he publicly said his goals were but after a while I realized he was just another Moonie-style hate filled man. I'm sure the "movement" is still around and I would bet money they are "preaching" the same kind of crap!

There is a terrible sickness in our society!

BTW, I'm in Golden, love Boulder, but can't afford to live there. The time frame you mention being here is a perfect example of what I mean. The seventies and into the VERY early eighties was just before this HUGE boom here. I don't know if you've been back recently but this place looks like California in it's sprawl. The mountains are no longer much of a getaway since there are houses on practically every mountain range you could think of.

For many years here you were as likely to see a Texas license plate as you were a Colorado license plate. There are still a lot of out of state license plates but most of them have moved here now. I have just felt really strange with the caliber of people that have moved here over the years.

[alfredo]

40. Boulder moved pretty fast for a small town.

I remember the people in Denver fighting against developing the foothills. They feared the pollution would become so bad that Denver would become unlivable.

I used to go to Golden for the bicycle race through town. The course was hellish.

[bush_is_wacko]

41. The pollution here IS nearly unbearable some days!

The air tastes like copper and even the most in shape athlete is wheezing his/her lungs out on those days! I see them out there sometimes and think they are insane to be riding on a day like this even if it is a beautiful day for a bike ride they ought to be wearing a gas mask! I know a lot of bikers, but I gave it up several years back when the fires were so bad it was raining ashes here! Natives have lost the battle here as far as I'm concerned, but I do still have hope they can ultimately win the war. Recent events in politics and what looks to me to be a build up to war with Iran and Syria are going to bring out the old hippies by the droves. I can see the agitation building among those who fear a draft and those that are pissed over the Warren Churchill thing and CU's handling of the previous scandals. Apparently it's OK to hire hookers and provide alcohol and ignore RAPE by underage spoiled rotten football players, but don't EVER call a victim of 911 a little Eichmann!

Churchill is going to lose his job IMO, but they will never admit it is because of that essay. They are going after him for plagiarized ARTWORK of all things. I don't condone that, but I am well aware of the fact that the real reason is because ONE Republican college punk decided to get pissy nearly 3 years after the fact because he wanted to cover up any media attempts at making his party look like the flunkies they are. All of those people that are living elsewhere have missed the point on this one. I've seen the news coverage. Excerpts of the offending passages of that essay were printed in the newspaper VERY shortly after they were written and they barely raised an eyebrow. I'm fully willing to admit Churchill has his faults, but THIS situation is a witch hunt of major proportions and the Boulder community has been silenced by the influx of wing nuts over the past 15 years or so. When several high school students decided to sing a Bob Dylan song in their November 2004 talent show, a bunch of fundies called the freaking Secret Service on them because the song contained a "threat to the president." What the hell where they thinking? and it hasn't escaped my attention that the same little punk Republican was on the air during that particular scandal too. I am trying to catch him again so I can get his name and find out more about him! I'm sure he'll turn out to be another mini-Gannon in the long run, but he seems to be "hiding" right at the moment.

Anyway, I think I have gotten way off topic here in my rant so I'm shutting up.

As far as I'm concerned there is a serious threat to sanity in the form of fundie "moral values" and it is a national conspiracy/witch hunt that is bound to grow into the proportions of the McCarthy era if someone doesn't recognize it and derail it NOW!

[alfredo]

42. Read about Christian Reconstructionism or Dominionism.

That may give you some insight.

BTW, did the city government ever tell you the location of the 19 Radium dumps in and around Denver? That was a scandal when I lived there.

[flyarm]

30. you got that right..* 1 planned most of those closings!! helped

along by repugs in congress!!

fly

[MASSAFRA]

5. The Cold War is over

The biggest military in the world still could not stop the events of 9-11-01.
When you have all this military force it has to be used and it is being used for the immoral and illegal invasion of Iraq.
How are you going to cut taxes and continue to spend billions on defense? Like the missile defense system which does not work and would not have prevented the events of 9-11-01.

[WoodrowFan]

6. is it even true

do a search in the archives, there wer eposts here earlier about the cutsa that cheny recommended when he was Secretary of Defense. I'll bet you that these cuts, if real, were started by Bush I and Chency.

[artfan]

8. Don't forget to include

# injured American troops
# vets waiting to be seen at a VA facility
average wait to be seen at a VA
the increases in fees and decrease in funding at .....(yup the VA)
# kids who lost a parent due to war
# WMDs found

The DAV will be able to help you find stats

[kaitykaity]

9. How about "Well, at least Bill and Al didn't raise vet's

copays for their health insurance, send troops to war
without body armor or in unarmored Humvees. They didn't
start a back-door draft that's keeping 60-year-olds in
a combat zone.

"If you gave two shits about anything other than protecting
the hide of your precious pretender Preznit, you'd care about
things like that."

[Stop_the_War]

10. WOOHOO I can sleep well knowing that Bill Clinton WASN'T a warmonger

[RealLifeNM]

12. Just Ignore!

[Blue_Tires]

13. ask your 'friend' a simple question

do they prefer peace and prosperity or perpetual war?

and ask when they are going to sign up to counter the 'shortfall'

[AP]

14. Republicans don't care about troop levels. They care about weapons...

...programs.

Bush is not trying to build up the number of soldiers we have (which would mean more money going to labor).

He's trying to build star wars systems and buy bombs.

[WoodrowFan]

15. Cheney made these cuts: here's proof

Check this link, it's DOD's own website detailing to cuts that CHENEY made while Sec Def.

http://www.defenselink.mil/specials/secdef_histories/bios/cheney.htm

This archived thread shows more info

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2453427


so does this thread..
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1889096


GO GET THEM!

[KG]

17. i just click the 'delete' icon.

but i really don't get much of this kind of tripe since i told anyone who was sending it to stop it.

[UdoKier]

18. Easy as pie.

I don't know how accurate those numbers are, but all the base closures and reductions that were implemented under Clinton-Gore, were planned and begun under the Bush I administration. Remember the "peace dividend"? Sure you do. You're an intelligent liberal. But republicans are incapable of remembering anything that happened more than 2 weeks ago.

[ComerPerro]

19. Wait, what's that? We need more troops to defend America!

Why aren't the College Republicans rushing to sign up?

[B Calm]

21. Bush #1 ordered closed 100 military bases just before leaving office.

Rantoul, Illinois (Chanute Air Force Base) was closed thanks to Bush!

[flyarm]

31. commissioned closed by * 1was richards- gebaur afb in kansas city!! n/t

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/richards-gebaur.htm
Richards-Gebaur Air Reserve Station
In July 1991, the BRAC Commission recommended closure of Richards-Gebaur Air Reserve Station, the transfer of the 442nd Tactical Fighter Wing to Whiteman Air Force Base, and the transfer of the 36th Aeromedical Evacuation Squadron and the 77th and 78th Aerial Port Squadrons to Peterson Air Force Base. The installation was closed on September 30, 1994.


my hero!!

William J. Clinton

During the administration of William Jefferson Clinton, the U.S. enjoyed more peace and economic well being than at any time in its history. He was the first Democratic president since Franklin D. Roosevelt to win a second term. He could point to the lowest unemployment rate in modern times, the lowest inflation in 30 years, the highest home ownership in the country's history, dropping crime rates in many places, and reduced welfare roles. He proposed the first balanced budget in decades and achieved a budget surplus. As part of a plan to celebrate the millennium in 2000, Clinton called for a great national initiative to end racial discrimination.

wow i miss him!!

fly

[Individualist]

22. Send this with your reply

A friend sent me this email this morning:

Walking Eagle
President Bush was invited to address a major
gathering of the American Indian Nation last weekend in Arizona. He spoke for almost an hour on his future plans for increasing every Native American's present standard of living. He referred to his career as Governor of Texas, how he had signed "YES" 1,237 times for every Indian issue that came to his desk for approval. Although the President was vague on the details of his plan, he seemed most enthusiastic about his future ideas for helping his "red brothers."

At the conclusion of his speech, the Tribes presented the President with a plaque inscribed with his new Indian name - Walking Eagle.

The proud President then departed in his motorcade, waving to the crowds. A news reporter later inquired to the group of chiefs of
how they came to select the new name given to the President.

They explained that Walking Eagle is the name given to a bird so full of shit it can no longer fly.
>

[B Calm]

26. OMG, thats funny! I forwarded to all my contacts..

[flyarm]

32. wow i heard that on a radio station the other day!!!

and i laughed my ass off!!!

my husband is american indian..i could not wait to tell him that!!

still laughing here!!

gotta love those indians!! they are still very wise!!

fly:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[johnaries]

23. Cheney was the one behind the Defense cuts...

http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00000500.htm
http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=48737
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2004/04/29/cheneys_past_defense_cuts_questioned/
http://minneapolisfed.org/pubs/fedgaz/90-06/cuts.cfm

He was pushing for cuts as early as the 1980's, and in 1984 criticized Raygun for NOT cutting defense:
http://www.davidsirota.com/blogarchive/2004_04_25_davidsirota_archive.html

And remember, it was a REBUBLICAN Congress that voted for the cuts. Clinton was actually AGAINST the cuts, as he stated 12/01/1994: "I have repeatedly resisted calls to cut our forces further, to cut our budget below the levels recommended in that bottom-up review, and I have drawn the line against further defense cuts."
http://www.clintonfoundation.org/legacy/120194-remarks-by-president-on-defense-readiness-expenditures.htm

Does that help?

[WebeBlue]

25. They sound like they are getting worried and more defensive...

Hmmm, we got a fwd email recently from family, pointing out all the great and positive good being done in Iraq...did you know and then a list of items. Problem is that family member who sent it knows we are military family with two deployed once to Iraq (veterans now) and about to be deployed again to Iraq in few short months.

We thought we had 'trained' this family member not to send us crap like this already, but apparantly not. We had a frenzied exchange just prior to election as that part of the family seems to be in the 'other' camp. What struck us was that no amount of calm, logical, rational expression of other truths that apply was well received. Nor was any impassioned not so calm, logical or rational expression well received. It seemed that the more informed information that we shared, the more militant were the reactions as if the belief (propaganda) was more relevant than the reality of family, military family at that, and the fact of family deployed to Iraq, where we might hold some particular insights not reported in mainstream news.

It was very disappointing, and I have to admit, it hurt. It is family, after all, not some strangers we encountered pushing their political agenda. It served to put a real rupture in the relationship and future potential for mending the relationship. Well, better said, we aren't inclined to be receptive to much mending activity as this was way more than politics, political rhetoric for us; it was our kids lives we were invested in preserving, which we made abundantly clear. A vote for Bush represents to me the signing of death warrants for our kids and that is not a lightweight matter. This election represented for me, the opportunity for people to touch their own humanity and dignity and decency and I believe more than 53 million did, but we got vote fraud and we got another fraudelent 4 years. Arggghhh.

When we received this 'Did you know...all in Iraq is well and good' email last week, we took stronger steps and returned reply to all responses with what is not all well and good in Iraq. That meant it went out to all on family member's email list. Whewwwwwww....did we hear back from many, loudly, reactionary and some where even cruel in their reaction to our own legitimate human being kids deployed to Iraq. I was stunned and astonished at the willingness of family to disregard our own reality and truth (we do live this every day and have been for 2 + years now) to instead insist on the propaganda talking points as the only truth there can be and the only opinion that is correct.

BUT......after settling down some, it occurred to me that the strength and militancy of their reactions is not really about us. It is more about them, and they are reacting almost desperately defensively. I think (hope) guilt is beginning to plague the other side as it was their vote and their insistence on Bush at all costs that puts us where we are now in this country. I almost like to think that something in the other side is breaking down now and the only recourse they have left is to save face and insist they have not been misled and duped. That defensive posture can only last so long which puts me in a rather optimistic frame of mind to continue our efforts to speak out and speak out and speak out and speak out.

Please all do keep speaking out and trying, because while we may not be winning the immediate battle, I think we are making headway and gaining ground in the long-term war to gain back our own country.

Thanks for letting me take up so much space with my response.

[flyarm]

33. what a wonderful response!! and thank you for your familys sacrifice!!

i think truer words could not be spoken!! i see the same thing..many are having doubts now but they don't want to admit they were wrong...

don't know why..i admit i am wrong all the time..but i guess they know there wrong has blood dripping from it!

thanks for writing such a wonderful post!!

fly

[flyarm]

29. send this picture and

archive a pic of clinton when he went out of the country..and say..yes we were loved then ..and now hated world wide thanks to *!!

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/24/international/europe/24germany.html?ex=1109912400&en=9a11c93178e2d545&ei=5059&partner=AOL

fly

[flyarm]

34. bill clinton at bradenburg gate

http://www.guardian.co.uk/germany/article/0,2763,804399,00.html
bill clinton at bradenburg gate germany ..
The city council estimated that 750,000 people - a quarter of the population - gathered to watch the unveiling. But then it would be hard to overstate the Brandenburg Gate's emblematic importance for the new Germany.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/germany/article/0,2763,1424007,00.html
compare to no one on streets of germany for * and all town hall meetings had to be canceled as they thought the crowds would be nasty to *!!!

fly

[baron j]

37. Counter it with this link

to images on Yahoo of Iraqi children casualties (Caution! These are upsetting and disturbing pictures!)

http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?fr=FP-pull-img-t-174&p=iraqi+children+casualties

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

38. This particular clone email has been posted and debunked at DU many times.

First of all, why are they continue to circulate this dreck.

They "won"!

Honestly, if I were a fat, happy complacent shrub fan, I'd turn my attentions back to "Survivor" and "Desperate Housewives" and Monday Night Football now that my emperor has safely "won" another term, and flip the channel when any mention of the Iraq occupation appears.

I don't understand why RWers still bother with this, especially ones bashing Clinton and Gore.

I do suspect a certain number of these are put and kept in circulation by some Scaife/Rove funded venture of low paid computer monkeys. I mean it's cheap as all hell to do this, as these emails are anonymous of uncertain source, they don't have to care about the veracity of it.

Most of the common ones like this you can already find debunked on snopes.com or other such sites. This one's been around a while.

[FM Arouet666]

39. The peace dividend supported by republicans

It is interesting how only democrats have a record, everything goes back to Clinton, nothing goes back to republicans. The down size was supported and approved by republicans. Who is to blame? NO ONE! We simply did not need a bloated military with the downfall of the Soviet Union. Most of the armaments mentioned would not have made any difference in Chimpys recent escapade, unless of course he is planning to nuke Iran or North Korea.