raising atheist children

[datasuspect]

boy just when it seems like the lizard people are everywhere, you run across an inspiring article like this:

excerpt: "So, what advice do I have for nonbelievers trying to raise their children in a rigidly religious, small town environment? Move."

http://www.cfimetrony.org/natalie.html

[applegrove]

1. Promoting Bullying behaviour - I will skip this read!! n/t

[datasuspect]

3. where in god's name do you get "bullying?"

oh my. . .

can anyone say "disconnect?"

[applegrove]

4. I fully admitted to just reading the title. Telling someone to "move"

sounds bad to me. Just the idea that you cannot get along and live in the same town I consider a bad thing. But again - I didn't read the article - so ignore me if 'moving' was in the title but not in the text.

[applegrove]

5. And now I am having trouble with the link!! So I cannot correct myself

[datasuspect]

7. that's why it's called an "EXCERPT"

<shakes head>

oy vey!

[applegrove]

9. Can you give me another link to the site? I now am beyond curious

and the suspension is killing me!! And I cannot link!! :argh:

[datasuspect]

10. i found through

http://aldaily.com/

it's somewhere mid page, 3rd column.

[charlie]

11. Try the Google cache

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:3kowmsE8k1sJ:www.cfimetrony.org/natalie.html+%22RAISING+CHILDREN+WITH+SECULAR%22&hl=en

[applegrove]

14. Okay - I made the link and started to read. But I am not interested. As

an atheist myself (agnostic) I just do not politicize it or take a stand. For me it being an atheist is personal. I think I actually tried to read the article before and could not at the time.

I still do not understand how 'being forced to move or accepting that you have to live somewhere elses' is okay. To me that is sad, sad, sad and goes against everything that the USA stands for. But I repeat - I now have the link working and for a second time I choose not to read the article because it is not my bag.

If you live somewhere .. what goes on inside your soul should only be the concern of your close friends and family. The people you decide to share that with. I am not saying it is illegal to move. I am saying that it is heartbreaking if you move because of religion, sexual orientation, race, what you know, etc. In my mind, and in my life experience, persecution is bad. And whether it be because of unfortunate group dynamics and structural problems therein or because some evil character who sets the tone of the group and has much personal gains to make out of structuring the group so.. it is a shame if you live in the USA and you have to move because you are not a carbon copy of your neighbour. A shame to not be accepted as a private person in a community because of something you cannot change about yourself.

If my statement has no bearing on the article I refuse to read - ignore me.

[Warpy]

16. Read that paragraph only, it's about halfway down

and she makes very good points about the stifling nature of small towns that are hyperreligious.

I went to high school in the south. When I ran away from home, I ran to Boston. It was the first time I'd been able to draw a free breath in many years.

So yes, if you have children middle school and older, and you're living a secular life in one of those areas plagued by Shi'ite religious folks who are trying to police everybody else's thoughts, MOVE. Your kids will be very grateful.

[Book Lover]

2. What a great speech!

Thanks for the link.

[Withywindle]

6. I wish my parents had read that!

Being the only atheist family in Bibleville is a LOT harder on the kids than on the adults!

[applegrove]

8. This is what I mean. You cannot live a small town life anymore unless

you are religious? To me - it sounds like some fundies are bullying (by moral suation or exclusion). But again - I still cannot get that link so I have not read the article.

[Modem Butterfly]

17. Small towns are all about conformity

[applegrove]

22. But small towns have had to adjust to a much wider world in the last 200

years.

Oh - and small town life can be lovely. And the number of people who can have that and run a business because of the internet.

Oh that is so sad. So sad to hear.

[Modem Butterfly]

23. I think it's the fear of change

So often change threatens small towns, whose economies are more vulnerable than those of the cities or suburbs. There's also the isolation factor, which I believe played a big part in the Salem Witch Trials.

I grew up in a very rural area. My folks still don't trust city water. I was glad to leave and wouldn't go back if I had to. But the Norman Rockwell image persists.

[applegrove]

26. But that is not the way it has to be. Think of all the things we do that

are so worldly. I do not agree that small towns have to be closed. The ones I've known were lovely.

[Modem Butterfly]

28. The ones that I've known have been limited and limiting

When there's only one employer of any size in town, everyone is at their mercy.

When the nearest hospital is at least 30 minutes away, you have to really stay healthy.

When there's one gas station in town and they charge $2.00 a gallon for gas, you pretty much have to pay it.

When the local high school has one teacher per subject, one microscope per five kids, and history text books that end with "The conflict in Indo-China is a thorny issue for the French" it's difficult to be prepared for the outside world.

I moved to the city because I wanted choices and freedom. I didn't want to be SOL and SOW if I pissed off someone at the mill, I didn't want to have to drive myself to the hospital because there's no ambulence, and I was sick of worrying about Giardia and plague. There are things that I miss, but I wouldn't move back for the world.

In my experience, people who extol the virtues of small towns are usually from towns that are closer to medium-sized cities. I don't consider a town small unless it has less than 5,000 residents.

[applegrove]

30. There you go. Perhaps 5000 is small. And hard to have money in

a place with such limited investment. But now we have the internet. And as soon as they all get hooked up - it will be a different world. At least in my dreams.

[Modem Butterfly]

31. LOL! We had a party line 'til I was sixteen, in 1988!

We didn't even get cable until I was in college. The nearest internets providers are a long distance call away. Assuming the phone lines are working (service is still spotty at best). Forget wireless, heck, you can't even use a cell phone reliably.

[applegrove]

32. Yeah - but some day soon... do they have the wheel yet?

[Withywindle]

21. Well, it definitely happened to me!

Got to the point where I had to pick a church and go to it so the crap would stop. (Also I was genuinely curious, but it was 80% peer pressure, so it didn't stick.) My parents would drop me off and pick me up.

[UdoKier]

13. I knew I was an atheist at age 12...

Even though my parents were nominally methodist (never went to church)

My classmates were aghast: "You don't believe in Jesus!?!??!?!"

I would have said no just for the sake of not conforming mindlessly...

[Solly Mack]

12. Excellent!

Thank you for posting this.

[datasuspect]

29. you're welcome

i found it especially uplifting, given my current siege mentality.

[AllegroRondo]

15. My daughter's best friends are a Mormon and a Muslim

it makes it much easier to raise a non-religious child when they can see that there is much more out there than just Christianity.

[Hamlette]

18. beautiful argument!

great article.

[sybylla]

19. What a wonderful speech

My kids are nearing adulthood and I am saving it for when they have children. Chances of them being able to live in a rigidly religious small town are pretty slim as their likely college degree will keep them in urban areas. But it's still worth a read when you are atheist and expecting children

Thank you for sharing.

[movie_girl99]

20. that was fabulous

thanks for posting it.

[gollygee]

24. wow this is my life

right down to the religious michigan town. Amazing.

Thanks for passing that one along!

[beam me up scottie]

25. Yes, thank you.

It's refreshing and inspirational for those of us who live in the united states of jesusland.

[lapislzi]

27. Thank you! Forwarding far and wide

Sadly, the people who most need to apprehend this point of view are the people most likely to be offended or annoyed by it.

I'm preachin' to the choir here. <irony on>