The Gates Are Beautiful - PIX >>>

[Stephanie]

I don't understand all the complaints.

[Walt Starr]

1. My opinion, it's a horrid waste of money, effort, and time

and ugly too!

[BlueEyedSon]

3. And they will probably end up in a landfill

[CottonBear]

6. It will all be recycled. n/t

[Must_B_Free]

100. Didn't his giant umbrella install blow over and kill someone?

[China_cat]

48. Well, the artist paid for it all himself

it didn't come out of public funds. His to waste.

[Stephanie]

50. The artist earned the money to pay for the project by selling drawings

He sold drawings of the project to raise money to build the project. So their argument that money was wasted is moot.

[jdj]

93. why not donate it to tsunami survivors?

or hell, how many geodesic domes could they have bought for the homeless for this.

[Stephanie]

101. Do you really want to know why?

This is part of the "concept" that seems to elude many people here. The art would not exist without the project. The money from selling the drawings of The Gates would not be raised if The Gates never happened. Do you understand? Christo sold renderings of what The Gates would look like when it was completed. People bought the drawings for $50,000 to $400,000, or thereabouts. THAT money was used to create the installation in Central Park. No corporate or civic contributions. Art handlers (most of whom would have done it for free) were paid minimum wage to do the installation. So Christo has created the money he used to create his project. Without the project there is no money. So Christo could not have donated it to "tsunami survivors." He would not have had it.

Further, why don't you sell your house and car and use the money to pay rent for two homeless families? Why not?

[Walt Starr]

51. Still a waste, IMO

Pretty boring as far as atrwork goes, IMO. there's no real pizazz. It doesn't grab me.

It's like a Freeper trying to "decorate" the lot their trailer sits on, IMO.

[Richard Steele]

75. "Masturbation is its own reward", said Ben Franklin....

I make alot of crappy half-realized "art" myself.

But I don't force MILLIONS of people to look at it; I don't shove it under peoples noses.

I "pay for my art myself" also; "mine to waste"...
I just don't use my wasted funds to fuck up acres of public property.

This "emperor" has no clothes. Snatch back your brains, and hold them.

[China_cat]

89. I never said I liked it

I said it was his money to waste. That includes the permit fees the city of New York collected from him...and I hope they were large.

But if you want STATE sponsored art that makes no sense whatever, go to Holland and look around Amsterdam, Den Haag, Utrecht, other cities.

[mattclearing]

118. What a nasty post. n/t

[LiberallyInclined]

127. but it's on public property.

let him pay to put his eyesores up on his own land.

[China_cat]

138. Public property

that he had to pay permit fees to use. Fees that (hopefully) will be used for upkeep of the park. I ain't gonna begrudge NY the $$$$ they get for 2 weeks of inconvenience.

[oldtime dfl_er]

2. Im thinking that they must look great at dawn

That color would look so rich in the early morning light.

www.cafepress.com/showtheworld

[tabasco]

4. My god I hope that's only temporary.

Terrible eyesore. What the hell is that?!?

[CottonBear]

5. Very beautiful!

I love conceptual outdoor art. This Christo installation is nice because you can interact with it unlike Running Fence or Wrapped Islands. Spiral Jetty (located in Utah) is my favorite permanent land artwork.

[Stephanie]

14. Are you familiar with Michael Heizer?

Recent Times article on him:





http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/06/magazine/06HEIZER.html?ex=1108702800&en=52394cbdd4d031bf&ei=5070

[CottonBear]

42. No I'm not. That is way cool.

Thanks for the link. I'll bookmark it.

[tridim]

7. They're certainly better than some of Christo's earlier efforts

Like in Kansas City when he covered the sidewalks with slippery yellow fabric. I'm still not all that impressed with the gates.

[KissMeKate]

8. makes me think of China and the lanterns

we wont like ALL art- but I support art for arts sake.

[elsiesummers]

9. In person I didn't think it was attractive - but just my opinion.

I didn't like the installation.

I don't prefer orange (as a color) much and maybe that has something to do with my dislike.

They look better in the pics than they do in person. I felt uncomfortable walking underneath them (though I suppose these sorts of emotional responses are the goal of perfomance art).

It looks like a giant Home Depot Ad.

All I could think of in the park was Home Depot.

We decided to walk by the river instead because it was more pleasant. The park is really muddy right now though, so not the best time to walk in the park.

[smirkymonkey]

36. I feel the same way, but I have liked some of Christo's other

installments in the past. Maybe it's because Central Park is so near and dear to my heart and the project just seems to jar with the natural beauty of the setting. I feel very protective toward it, as it is one of my favorite places in the world.

On the other hand, it's kind of an ugly time of year, and the project lasts only two weeks, so I can deal with it. If it was permanent, THEN I would be outraged.

[elsiesummers]

49. Yes it's not permanent so not a big deal.

I see no permanent harm except that this sort of art gives fodder to those who criticize all art.

Is this good art? It sort of seems like an emperor who has no cloths moment, to me.

If some people enjoyed it then it served a purpose. I personally did not have to like it for it to have some value.

[fob]

83. My immediate reaction to the color was to refer to it as "Ukrainian

Orange" It seems like a fitting homage to those that grabbed democracy back from the gates of hell. The awesome part of it is these gates/design were dreamt up over 25 years ago!!

[Stephanie]

102. that's synchronicity

kind of amazing

[Behind the Aegis]

10. 21 million?!?!

I want to write the artists and tell them, for a measly 1 million, I will spend the next year painting with my butt! If they can toss that much money around, toss some my way!

[Bluebear]

11. Still photos can't capture their essence

When you see the panels undulating in the breeze it's quite beautiful.

[bloom]

12. I would loved to have made a trip

to see them in person.


Great photos.

[Goldmund]

13. I'm tellin' you...

people are just jealous they live in strip malls they call their "hometowns"...

[imenja]

16. yeah, why don't we just blow the rest of the country off the map

New Yorks are the most provincial people on the planet. How unfortunate for you all that your lives are so insular.

[Goldmund]

23. yeah New Yorks are

hehe...

We shouldn't blow the rest of the country off the map. We just should stop calling it "the rest" of the country, and start calling it the "neighboring" country!

;)

[Goldmund]

26. On a more serious note

this very conversation is one of those things that displays like this give us. Whether you like it aesthetically or not. We're discussing symbolism, ugliness, beauty, all of those things -- it is SOMETHING GOING ON. Aesthetic beauty (or a lack thereof) is a small thing, compared to the sheer stimulus, positive or negative, that this kind of a thing has provided.

[Stephanie]

29. Exactly right - but why attack the right of the art to exist at all?

Saying you hate it or it's ugly is one thing, saying it should not exist is completely different. Why should any art exist, in that case?

[Goldmund]

35. A lot of people somehow assume that

art equals beauty, and beauty equals aesthetics. So in order for something to be art then, it has to look, or sound pretty, and feel pleasing. I think that this kind of a notion is what produces mall art like Thomas Kinkade.

[theboss]

65. I don't think this is pretty or challenging

It looks like a marathon course sponspored by Hooters.

Maybe if the gates were green or a more natural color. The orange is just jarring.

[Goldmund]

85. Did you read my post?

[imenja]

56. feel free to start your own secession movement

Just make sure you take back all these horrendously rude New Yorkers down in Florida. I would be nice to restore some semblance of civilized behavior.

When I see the way these old ladies behave, my mouth drops open. In the Midwest, the question that automatically comes to mind when one witnesses such behavior is "were you raised in a barn?"
It's especially shocking when it comes from the elderly, because one assumes older generations are raised with some sort of manners.

[Goldmund]

57. You know I was joking, right?

Florida is a good filter for those geezer New Yorkers you mention -- we don't like 'em here so we send them over there where they can still feel young and happenin'.

:evilgrin:

[imenja]

99. well, I thought it was a joke that revealed your true thoughts

based on conversations with New Yorkers, I didn't find it out of character. I realize the New Yorkers here are far worse than those who stay in the city. Lucky us.

[Stephanie]

103. Re-read your posts, and substitute "Southerners" every time you say

New Yorkers. See if you like how that sounds.

[imenja]

109. I know what I said

and while it may sound prejudiced, and may in fact be prejudiced, it is also true. It also responded to the other posters comments that the rest of the country outside of NY was essentially worthless. Snobbery pisses me off.

[Stephanie]

110. Really? Show me a post that says "the rest of the country outside of NY" -

is "essentially worthless"

And please explain how a statement can be prejudiced, and also true. Are you saying that to judge someone based on stereotypes is unfair, while you're also saying that stereotypes are accurate?

[imenja]

111. I paraphrased

Here is the quote: "people are just jealous they live in strip malls they call their "hometowns"...'

[Stephanie]

112. Okay, yes, that's an example of prejudice.

That's a statement based on a stereotype.

When you stereotype New Yorkers it makes us just as unhappy.

[imenja]

113. well I'm sorry I offend you

but honestly, one gets tired of continually being told we don't count if we live outside your little island. There are many great places in this nation, and some of them are actually located outside of Manhattan.

There are cultural differences between various regions of the country. Florida is a transient society, since most people who live here come from other parts of the country. As a result, cultures clash. I come from a part of the country where it is important to be polite, so it is strange to deal on such a frequent basis with people who shout loudly when they encounter you, walk right up to the front of a long line demanding service, when others have been waiting for a long time. I once bumped into an elderly woman at an airport, she loudly shouted in the most grating voice: "look where you are going." It was shocking. If anyone behaved that way in Minneapolis it would be assumed they were insane. In fact, I've never seen displayed in Minnesota the poor manners that are commonplace among New Yorkers here. I simply find it impossible to understand.

[Stephanie]

117. Okay, now you've just stereotyped New Yorkers as rude -

We "shout loudly," we have "poor manners," and we appear "insane," - way to stereotype 6 million people. This discussion is over for me. Thanks.

[imenja]

133. I did not say 6 million people

I told you about experiences that happen here in Florida all the time. Now, I assume you have never lived in another part of the country or you would be realize that there are great differences in behavior from one part of the country to another. That simply is the case.

There may very well be polite New Yorkers. All I know, is that the rudest people I've encountered in my life have been here in Florida. And the accent is quite distinctive. ANYONE who lives in Florida will tell you the same.

The very concept of what constitutes rudeness is culturally bound. In New York, everyone bumps into each other on the street without saying excuse me. As far as I can tell, they don't try to avoid running into another person. That in part is a function of living in a large city, but it is not universal to large cities. I've lived in London, Rio de Janeiro, and Salvador da Bahia. That particular habit is not present in any of those locations, despite the large numbers of people walking in public.

New York has much to offer. Great art, a vibrant economy, an interesting mix of people. But a polite city it is not.

[Stephanie]

136. I have lost my patience with you

Is this an example of those Southern manners you feel that you possess and we New Yorkers do not? You're woefully ignorant about New York and I am done trying to correct you. You just continue to be insulting.

This is without a doubt the stupidest statement I have seen in recent days:

In New York, everyone bumps into each other on the street without saying excuse me. As far as I can tell, they don't try to avoid running into another person.

I seriously doubt that you have ever been to New York, or you would never make such an assertion.

And FYI, I grew up in the Northwest, and I lived in Southern California before I moved to NY. So yes, I have seen other "cultures" - but none so rude as what you are exhibiting.

[imenja]

142. I have been to NY and I am not Southern

and when I was there people constantly bumped into me. Even if I were a native Floridian, South Florida is most certainly not the South.

I find it strange that you refuse to acknowledge differences in mannerisms between different parts of the country, and among cultures of different regions of the world. I can only conclude you have not paid attention to people when you've traveled. People in NY do not behave the same as those in Georgia, Minnesota, or the Northwest,
and none of those regions have identical mannerisms. You might note that in Washington state, even in Seattle, pedestrians very rarely
cross against a red light. In much of the rest of the country, that is commonplace. I imagine Washingtonians face adjustment when they travel elsewhere and discover most of us are not nearly so law abiding. Similarly, Midwesterners find themselves a bit shocked by the behavior of Northeasterners. Now you evidently are comfortable with the cultural mannerisms of your region, so much so that you are unable to acknowledge they differ from other parts of the country. For many, they seem rude. But as I noted, rudeness is a culturally bound concept. But to imagine that everyone is the world maintains identical cultural mannerisms is absurdly ethnocentric. If honesty is rudeness, then I plead guilty. At least I am not incapable of imagining another world outside my own.

[Stephanie]

144. "you evidently are comfortable -

with the cultural mannerisms of your region"

That's not the issue - I just don't like being insulted. Over and over and over again. And it's really a lame cop-out to say 'I'm not being rude, just honest.' Uh huh.

Now really, let's end this here, before I have to tell you what I really think.

[Goldmund]

131. Yo --

-- it was a _complete_ joke. My very parents live in Tennessee. I was just playing around. Though it IS true that every joke has an ounce of truth in it -- but in this case, that ounce of truth is not in the direction you're looking at. What I meant to say is that no matter whether one LIKES the Gates or finds them pleasing in any way, they provide change, dynamics, stimulus, and that alone is of a high value in my mind; much higher value than the pleasantess of a landscape that is static and unchangeable, no matter how pretty -- as it is (a fact) in most places in this country and in the world.

[Robin Hood]

130. LMAO!!!

he,he...

[Walt Starr]

45. To me, it looks like a celebration at Red Square.

:shrug:

[Goldmund]

46. Hey, I'd be all for staging one of those in Central Park

Imagine the eyebrows it'd raise!

On edit: "Blueneck"??? hahahaha that's good!

[Zynx]

15. I think they would have looked better in the summer.

Everything looks better in the summer.

[Stephanie]

19. I want to see them in snow

Snow would be awesome.

[Zynx]

32. I think they would look better against green than against white.

[KurtNYC]

120. The original concept was to do it in Fall

which would have had the orange playing against natural yellows, orange, red, etc. I think that is very different than doing it in barren winter. I don't see how environmental art can just ignore the color around it but they didn't change much about the project when they were forced to go with Winter instead of Fall.

[LiberallyInclined]

128. i thought he said that he CHOSE February..

for the monochromatic skys and lack of leaves on the trees.

is christo a hack and a liar?

[Stephanie]

129. why so hostile?

he's an artist, he's not George Bush.

[LiberallyInclined]

134. you say artist...

i say tom-ah-to...:bounce:

i guess that having my senses and sensibilities overwhelmed by something so utterly...orange & plastic in it's orangeness & plasticity does that to me...

i prefer my parks au naturale...as nature intended.

[Stephanie]

137. Nature did not create Central Park

Frederick Olmstead did. If we left it as nature intended, we would have a swamp in the center of Manhattan.

[bystnder]

17. Eh, the color is pretty even if it does

look like a tribute to the Daytona 500 or slalom skiing. Where is this located?

[Stephanie]

20. It's in Central Park

They are all over the entire park.

[Generator]

18. They scream Communist China to me

The wall..the flags...the mass displays...that's what they make me think of.

If they even symbolized SOMETHING but they are just there. Do they symbolize freedom..hope...what...no they are abstract so they can't mean anything..but being abstract. I love surreal art and some abstract art but this is just..I don't know..fabric. It doesn't feel like any emotion to me but a bunch of flags in the park. Of course walking through them would be different. But still 21 million?

For beautiful things that are just there..I prefer the trees.

[seabeyond]

21. i dont like them at all, thanks for the pix

i am surprised i react the way i do. i have nothing invested here, adn see beauty in most all. but this just doesnt work for me at all. covers up the openness which is the whole purpose of taking a walk outside. lookes like curtains adn dont like the color. just looks odd having these wavey things

nope, i dont like it at all

[trumad]

25. One mans art is another mans fart.

to each his/her own.... Personally I love the creativity in all art.

[seabeyond]

27. i guess and i say this respectfully i know it to be true

personally i am surprised i cant find something i like in them.

[theboss]

71. I think it's the color....

That much orange is....troubling.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

22. Japanese Torii are being cited as the precedent

the Japanese Torii are being cited as the precedent, blogs are abuzz with this, and the NYTimes published a letter yesterday stating as much.

If anyone knows how to relate man to nature it is the Japanese...

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e3915.html
anyway. I love 'em!

[bryant69]

24. I think they are pretty cool looking

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[lebkuchen]

28. They remind me of torii gates at a Japanese temple

peaceful.

Hope guns aren't allowed.

[indigobusiness]

30. The complaints remind me of Van Gogh's art being shunned

in its day.

And all the lame jokes about art that eventually filters down to the masses and is welcomed and exploited in so many ways.

Some people refuse to stop and smell the roses along the path of their entire lives, that is an option...albeit a sad one.

How anyone can judge this book by its cover is a mystery to me. It needs to be experienced for crticism to have any weight at all.

[theboss]

67. And sometimes criticism is justified....

Maybe 100 years from now, this will be viewed the same way as Van Gogh. Or maybe people will want to know why we hung laundry in Central Park for two weeks.

I appreciate art. I appreciate modern art. I appreciate (some) post-modern art. I took enough classes in college to even sound somewhat intelligent on the subject. I just don't get this at all.

[Stuckinthebush]

70. Van Gogh didn't spend an insane sum to make his art

And his art sticks around instead of being tossed after 2 weeks.

Big difference.

[Xithras]

31. Reminds me of laundry day at my grandmas house

She never did like dryers and always insisted on using her clotheslines.

Is it art? Beauty is subjective, and this doesn't rate as beautiful in my book. Clothelines don't belong in Central Park.

[DU GrovelBot]

33. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

==================
GROVELBOT.EXE v3.0
==================



This week is our first quarter 2005 fund drive. Democratic
Underground is a completely independent website. We depend almost entirely
on donations from our members to cover our costs. Thank you so much for
your support.

[Stop_the_War]

34. Looks like something from the Amazing Race....

[eleny]

37. I think it's beautiful, too

[elsiesummers]

38. Home Depot. n/t

n/t

[ScreamingMeemie]

39. The world's longest ski run. Not my thing, but I'm not irritated over it

or anything.

[otohara]

40. They Are Beautiful - Thanks For Posting For Us

who can't go to NYC to see this work of ART! Thank God, we're not ART hating republican's who don't appreciate ART.

[Pithlet]

41. Maybe they look better in person.

It may be one of those kinds of things that you have to see to truly appreciate. From the pictures, I think the orange color is hidious. But, most people who've seen it in person say it is beautiful. It may be one of those things that doesn't translate well to film (or disk).

[MissMarple]

43. Ahhh...Nothing more stimulating than a good art controversy.

At least it gets us thinking about art, and that has to be a good thing. :bounce:

[Hamlette]

44. Absolutely beautiful. Thanks for posting.

I've never been a huge Christo fan...until now.

I wanna to go NY and see them!!!!!!!

[begin_within]

47. Oops, Rumsfeld just changed them.... (photo)

[B3Nut]

53. But now they're the bad color!

They were the safe color before....now the creatures will show up!

:D :D :D :D :D

Todd in Beerbratistan

[BurtWorm]

52. I haven't seen those wide ones!

Those are really striking. What part of the park are they in?

[Stephanie]

55. There were really wide ones around the Great Lawn

I was surprised. Each gate exactly matches the width of the path, and the path is really wide around the Great Lawn. I hadn't thought about all the MATH calculations that had to be done to design this!

[Ripley]

54. Thank you for the pictures and all I can say about DU these days is

:wtf:

Since when did liberals become Art-haters?

[Stuckinthebush]

59. I don't think DU is full of art haters

But it is chock full of excess haters.

This 21 million piece of art is excessive - especially in a time when we are cutting funds for social programs.

That's all.

[Goldmund]

60. No shit! We could have bought like...

...15 missiles with that money instead!

[Stuckinthebush]

64. Or provided health care for thousands of children

Or provided HIV medications to hundreds of AIDS patients.

Or provided permanent housing to 400 low income families.

Or provided temporary rental assistance to thousands of families.

Or provided substance abuse treatment to thousands of people.

But those gates sure are pretty.

[Goldmund]

84. Have you ever bought a book in your life?

Or a computer?

That money could have fed like a hundred starving children!

[NuttyFluffers]

114. exactly, like some wisdom attributed to mohammed...

if you have two loaves of bread, sell one and buy a daffodil.

transient beauty is an integral part of the human experience. as much as you must feed the bodies and minds, you too must feed the souls. and to take the analogy further, not all food that nourishes is supposed to be saccharin sweet. if it made you *feel* and *think*, in any direction, it has more than done its job.

as for using the money to take up the slack of gov't cuts... drop in the bucket. gov't is by far bigger than any other institution within it; its job, if it wants to survive, is to care for its charges inside. our job is to shake that damn system to make it work. if it neglects we cannot take up the slack in any meaningful way relating to the problems in macrocosm, while at the same time maintaining gov't and our own lives. only throwing starfish in the sea at that point. feel good, means a lot to one, but doesn't put a dent in the real problem. sometimes there must be respite in the midst of struggle, even in the righteous and eternally fought ones.

[Ripley]

74. Maybe you missed the reference of this to trailer trash art?

Yes, the money Christo used to install this is huge. But that is the case with all large-scale environmental art. Tax payers did not provide this money, the Artist used his money. Do you think all people with millions (even if raised specifically for a project) should give it to social programs? I don't get it. We should not cancel Art, or Hollywood glitterama or expensive restaurants because the criminals running the country are squeezing the blood out of the bottom half of the citizens. This is America and it is supposed to be free. For those who believe it is immoral for Christo to make art and spend money the way he chooses, I say pfft! Move to China where he wouldn't be allowed to do this.

This is private money. Maybe some of you hate Public Art, but obviously he is successful because a lot of people do enjoy these types of installations.

Excessive without justification is Smirkaholic's yachts, helicopters, inauguration balls, Wars and corporate welfare.

No one ever complains about how much a crappy Hollywood film costs to make these days, or how about those MTV videos? Speaking of which I'm sure I would be deleted if I were to complain about the excesses of Bentleys and gold chains the "musicians" popular on MTV indulge in.

It just seems to me this site has become filled with a lot of hate and purposeful disruption over non-issues and this is just another one.

[Stuckinthebush]

81. Indeed, I did miss the reference to trailer trash art

And I would not condone using that terminology for a number of reasons.

Yes, the artist used his money for the art. And yes, I do criticize the excessive waste of money on terrible movies (another form of art). I question this artists priorities, and wonder about his ego. Enki23 said it best in post 73 below, so I will not repeat the post.

Suffice it to say that I and others at DU are art lovers, and we feel that this is excessive and ego driven. That does not make us art haters.

[Cats Against Frist]

88. So what's NOT ego driven? n/t

[Cats Against Frist]

87. Excellent Pooint about "Hollywood Glitterama"

You could round up the entire cadre of what passes for popular music entertainment, these days, and it still wouldn't be worth ONE of the panels in that installation.

For fuck's sake -- look at the money that is pumped in to Hillary Duff, Britney Spears, Jessica Manface -- I mean, "Simpson," -- Maroon 5, The entire cast of "American Pie," American Idol, -- Hell, ALL of reality television, all of television, Super Bowl commercials, sports commercialism, ad-fucking-nauseum.

Anyone who would take the time to complain about this, should seriously think about what they're saying. There are millions of idiots out there that have made the above people rich -- but one guy can't put up his curtains for two weeks?

[theboss]

69. But is this art?

Like I've said before, I own some art, I appreciate art, I've been to my fair share of museums. I've taken my fair share of classes.

I don't particularly like this.

[Stuckinthebush]

72. Yes, it is art

and beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but there are deeper questions about this piece of work, its excess, and its limited display time that gnaw at me.

[Stephanie]

104. Yes, this is art. It's just art you don't like.

So what? Do you like every book you read? Do you like every song you hear? If you don't like it, is it still music?

There is some weird confusion going on here about art, and whether it has a right to exist.

[Shakespeare]

140. Exactly. I love that it's got people all stirred up.

Personally, I REALLY like it, and would give anything to be able to experience it in person.

But I do keep smiling at the almost visceral reaction some people are having to it--that's not necessarily a bad thing (and if you're a student of Aristotle, you'll figure out why).

The reactions are good, both positive and negative.

[LiberallyInclined]

135. not all art has to be appreciated.

especially when it's so garish and unescapeable.

[goodhue]

58. Look good to me.

Who's complaining?!
Saffron orange is great color.
Most auspicious.

[Deja Q]

61. Garbage. Litter. Waste. Overpriced. Would rather see wind turbines.

http://images.google.com/images?q=wind%20turbines&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=N&tab=wi

[theboss]

62. I think it looks like some sort of Video Game mission

I guess it's interesting, but I really don't get it.

Like I said yesterday, whatever happened to sculpting a really nice statue?

[Pithlet]

77. It reminds me of "Tron"

Which dates me a bit. But that was the first thing I thought of when I saw them.

[theboss]

78. Oh, I remember Tron

That was high technology back in the day. Looks like a silent movie now.

[pinto]

63. In an increasingly ephemeral world, Cristo's latest, probably last,

big piece hit me as a poignant visual statement...thanks for the pix.

[leftchick]

66. 20 million bucks would have fed a lot of people....

but what do I know?

[Stuckinthebush]

68. Are they going to recycle that material?

I wonder about that as well.

It will only be up for a very short period of time, and then it either goes to the trash heap or is recycled.

That would make a lot of robes for Tibetan monks.

[enki23]

73. note to the people afraid DU is full of anti-art folk

it's simply not true. one can be very fond of art, art of all kinds in fact, yet still think christo is an annoying, overrated idiot.

i love art. but i don't love all art. and i sure as hell don't have to love everything some art establishment calls "art."

and i'm enough of an artist to know that 90% of art is a con job. that doesn't make it bad, or wasted, even though i think much of it is inherently dishonest. whatever an artist can convince you is art, is. it's a social phenomenon, as dependent on self-indulgent discussions about itself as it is on any ideas or emotions it might evoke unadvertised. yeah, yeah, if you enjoy it, it's art too. but i really believe the vast majority of what people enjoy, at least in the aesthetic realms, they enjoy because someone convinced them they should.

and christo? he's an artist no doubt, but his art is public relations. advertising. the gates are bright orange nike swishes, meaningless brand symbols for christo, only their returns are measured largely in ego.

[theboss]

76. Thanks, voice of reason

I'm more or less a city person. My friends are artists and actors. I'm forced to go to a zillion exhibits and plays and fundraisers and God knows what else. And it's a 50/50 proposition as to what is good and what is not good. Actually, that's too black in white: 25 percent of the stuff I see is good, 50 percent is passable, and 25 percent is dreck. I don't know when being "cultured" meant that you had to like every over-hyped exhibit that the NY Times likes.

[Ripley]

79. My reference is not about "taste."

Clearly you are welcome to dislike him, his work and his methodology. But there are lots of posts here saying it is degrading the Park, it is horrible in the face of social cut-backs, it's not really art, it isn't even good art. And this last one I'm so sure is from people who know a lot about art and are artists themselves. :eyes: (Not referring to you.) I believe a lot of people would feel very different about this installation if they witnessed it first hand. It is more complex than pretty saffron fabric.

So, please don't imply I am telling people what to like based on establishment art says, that is so not my intention. But once again, here's a new thing to divide us all on DU...let's argue about whether Christo is a egotist or not.

And on edit: I find it pretty offensive that you call my profession 90% con job. And you call yourself an artist? Do you also believe the many musicians and writers here are also con men and women? Hey, I absolutely agree that there are lots of people who bullshit their way through art school then the "Art world" by schmoozing and striking a pose. Yeah I was disillusioned and jaded after working the gallery system a while. But then I spit out the bitterness about the "politics" that is involved as it is in every profession on Earth and moved on with my artwork. Frankly I don't give a crap how much of a sell-out Christo is, and I don't feel sorry for anyone who works for him. Free country and all. This ain't exactly new to "farm out" the work. Sorry for the rant.

[Xithras]

82. Yep, he's the Thomas Kinkade of canvas

The only "art" in their art lies in Christo and Kinkade's ability to pass off unimaginative, mediocre imagery as high end art. They're also both quite adept at marketing themselves as "artists", when the actual work is done by paid underlings...their input is limited to "conceptualizing" the art and overseeing its production.

Like I said in my other post, this "art" looks like laundry day at my grandma's house.

[Shakespeare]

141. No, he's not, because he invites people to dislike his art, too.

While Kinkeade calls himself greater than Picasso--whew, talk about ego. Christo is unphased by those who don't like his installations, as any good artist should be, and doesn't condemn them for it. Christo doesn't claim to be great--he simply is what he is, and wants people to just experience what he does.

I LOVE that some people hate the installation (though I personally like it). It's achieved its purpose.

[Cats Against Frist]

90. You are full of orange curtains

I do agree with you that it is definitely subjective -- whether or not one would "like" the piece. Even if you have some idea how to approach it, either symbolically, thematically, aesthetically, historically, or even on just an emotional level -- it is certainly possible not to like it.

I don't like Magritte -- but plenty of other people do, and I'm not going to scream, "it's NOT ART!!!!" And I'm not going to call what people work very hard to do "90 percent con job," if they're working hard, and they're serious about it -- unless, of course, they are a cookie-cutter operation, set up to make money. Which is the case with most of popular culture.

Thomas Kinkade I ABSOLUTELY hate. My students turn in "Hallmark" poems sometimes. I tell them, however, that all art finds its place. Whether it cheers up Aunt Marge or gets the front page of the NYT, is not important, as long as it's personalized, and someone put some effort into it. It's art.

That said -- it doesn't mean it's GOOD art.

I'm a poet, which is just about tied to or even WORSE OFF than visual art, as far as the "art police," are concerned, and I am immediately turned off by "it's not art," -- predominantly because 90 percent of the people who say that -- and probably more -- truly have no fucking clue how to deal with or engage an installation on that level, whether or not they come to the conclusion, in the end, that it sucks.

Remember, the Nazis smashed modern expressionist paintings because they thought they "weren't art." Do you want to be like them?

[enki23]

94. i didn't say it "wasn't art."

but way to compare me to a nazi anyway, on the premise that i might have. (i suppose in that some nazis did some things which were similar to something someone might do if one believed something which i might have said, but didn't. i suppose my twin lightning bolts should be perfectly clear now.)

[Cats Against Frist]

96. Sorry -- I attached a whole lot of poetry community baggage

to your post. When you said that art is "90 percent con job," it didn't sound so different from the people who are constantly screaming that the avant-garde has no place, or that Kandinsky was a hack, and we should all admire classical arts and aesthetic.

It was the 90 percent figure that did you in -- and the fact that "con job" sounds like the "art police." You did explain to some extent, but if you wish to elaborate on what you mean about a "con job," that would certainly help me try to figure out exactly what you're saying -- if the "art establishment" is 90 percent bullshit, that's different than sayin that "art is 90 percent bullshit," -- and I would tend to agree with you on the first point -- at least in poetry, anyway.

[Stephanie]

106. the argument is whether the art has a right to exist even if -

even if people don't like it. Many here think that if they consider the art ugly, or inferior, or not to their taste, it should not have been created in the first place. And that creating art that doesn't please them is a waste of perfectly good money that could have been given to the homeless.

You don't like the art, but would you agree that Christo should never have created it?

[theboss]

122. You are missing a major point

Christo has a right to create his "art."

But does he have a right to completely take over Central Park in order to display it? If he had covered his home studio in orange crepe paper, no one would care. But you fill up our most beautiful part with this stuff, and I think we have the right to comment.

[Stephanie]

124. It took him 27 years until he was granted the right to use Central Park

And he has the Park for 16 days. He is not taking away anyone's enjoyment of the Park. The cyclists are still speeding around the Loop, the dogs are still walking, the runners running.

This work is about the grand scale. It cannot be done in a studio. To say that it should be done in a studio is to say that it should not exist.

Were you this upset about the painted cows that littered the sidewalks and plazas a few years ago? Because those were truly hideous.

[theboss]

132. DC has had the painted donkeys, elephants and pandas for a few years

Which were pretty dumb too, but on a much smaller scale. That was just like an 8th Grade Art Class project gone awry. And little kids seemed to like them.

And I'm not particularly upset about "The Gates" aside from the color. I think they are ugly and obtrusive, but I'm certainly not offended. I just don't see why Central Park needed "dressing up."

[robcon]

80. It's beautiful, IMO, but it's not art.

Monochrome crap.

[JanMichael]

86. How did they get a permit when Protestors were denied?

Unless I'm mistaken the NYC and the private "Foundation" that runs part of the park blocked the last big anti-war protests from being there. there was much heming and hawing and a bunch of debate.

Was there any debate about this use of the space?

Just curious.

[gollygee]

91. Looks like a bunch of shower curtains to me

but maybe they look better IRL

[KG]

92. nice.

the world could use a whole more of this.

[Bouncy Ball]

95. Well I like them.

Speaking as someone who would give two fingers off her left hand to live in NYC, speaking as someone who lives in a "red" state, as someone who is rarely ever (if ever) surrounded by any kind of art, I love it.

And against the starkness of the bare trees and winter gray it really is quite nice.

[Stephanie]

107. The contrast is beautiful, isn't it?

I love the color against the gray.

[donheld]

97. It's not that bad.

We don't have to pay for it, it won't be there forever, so who cares? not me.

[marions ghost]

98. Nice Pix

I happened to see The Gates accidentally
since I'm rarely in New York
Some may think they're beautiful, some may think they're ugly
I felt neutral, found them entertaining, even comical
Especially the flopping wapping swishing sounds
And the way they changed color in the light
Raucous, a little oppressive in spots
where the lines came together
Mood-altering, uplifting, mezmerizing
Though not all positive
Nostalgic for simple happy times
For a moment I was far away
Art is something that takes you somewhere...
That's all I ever ask of it.

[chefgirl]

105. Excellent post!!

I'm glad someone, much more able than I, expressed all the things I was feeling about this piece.

Mixed emotions. Is it art? Is it 'good' art? Do I like it?

Then I read your post:

"Mood-altering, uplifting, mezmerizing
Though not all positive
Nostalgic for simple happy times
For a moment I was far away
Art is something that takes you somewhere..."

Thank you for such eloquence.

-chef-

[Blue-Jay]

108. I prefer "Dogs Playing Poker"

To be honest, the poker dogs have provided a small amount of joy to more people than "Saffron Masturbatory Hurdles" ever will.

I don't hate art. I just hate art that sucks.

[NuttyFluffers]

115. in such a diverse and colorful city....

citron is one of the few colors that doesn't seem to get much representation -- as one can notice in the background shots and other pix of NYC. i think it's a great contrast. a forgotten color, a scream that seizes the eye, almost insultingly so, but then allows you to roll back upon the background of the city and see what would have been casually forgotten. it reminds you of the magic of the city that is already there. it's almost the 'you don't know what you have 'til it's gone' effect. by sucking upon the retinas and evoking... anything, it breaks one from routine long enough to see the splendor of the city. the analogy to japanese torii is appropriate. it is very... zen, to shock someone into being present, into being conscious of where they are.

[American Tragedy]

116. Honestly, I welcome ANY attempts to beautify American cities

even if some endeavors may be dubious or controversial. Anything whatsoever that might offset the formulaic architecture in every single goddamn metropolis and the sea of power lines and light posts that assault the landscape.

But I would really consider this to be more design than art.

[theboss]

123. Does Central Park really need "beautified?"

I mean, if this was done in the South Bronx, that would be one thing. But you are probably talking about the most beautiful section of any city in the world here.

[mwb970]

119. I like the idea, but...

I'm with KO. They're ugly.

[Padraig18]

121. I think they're beautful.

Art, for art's sake.

:D

[flygal]

125. It's interesting - but I don't see $20 million dollars there

:shrug:

[Stephanie]

126. There are 7500 gates

They are throughout the entire park. Central Park is 50 blocks long.

Here's a map:

[ProdigalJunkMail]

139. well, someone got robbed

because any of those gates could have been built for a couple hundred bucks...and at $20m that comes to over $2500/gate...labor to set each gate...can't be much, just prop the thing up...maybe the cloth is tremendously expensive?

I would love to see a cost breakdown on this 'art'

theProdigal

[GiovanniC]

143. The Art of the Gates Is Less the Physical Gates

And more discussion like what is in this thread.

Every single person in this thread is part of the art.

[Stephanie]

146. Agreed! Definitely.

[Danmel]

145. Good for the economy, though

I heard on the radio today that NYC hotels are filled to capacity (which they are usually not in February), because of thousands of European tourists, particularly Germans, French and Italians, flocking to our fair city to see the Gates.

As far as I'm concerned, anything that brings thousands of Europeans to NYC is fine with me. Lots of low wage workers will get lots more tips than they would have. The vendors in the park are making summer money during a period when they usually bring home very little, the businesses in the area are making money. It's two weeks. You don't like it, don't look at it.

I'll give you my personal critique over the weekend. We are going to Lincoln Center on Saturday and will head into the park to check it out.

But it is something of a sensation and at least people are here for something other than terror or the Republican convention. Better a city full of pretentious European art lovers than a city full of Republican delegates!

[Stephanie]

147. I have some art lovers from Montana coming into town just for this

They're making a special trip just to see the Christo.

[iconoclastNYC]

149. Uhm....Europeans do NOT tip well.

Ask any waiter. European waiters get paid real wages and there you usually just tip less than a dollar...sometimes just the change you have....here its like 10-20% and not very many Europeans know that.

[crispini]

148. They remind me of Buddhist monks.

I lived in Thailand for two years. They wear that bright neon shade of orange. Their robes flap around their ankles as they walk down the streets.