Is the Iraq vote still a fraud if Allawi loses?

[meisje]

discuss

[ChiciB1]

1. Isn't Allawi Only The....

Prime Minister, or was he on the never-ending ballot??

I really don't know!

[bemildred]

2. Yes.

It's still not what it is claimed to be, still a fraud.
You can't have an honest vote in the midst of a colonial war.
That the colonizing power did not get it's favored stooge elected
has nothing to do with the issue of the legitimacy of the election.

It does raise questions about the competence of the colonizers, so
to speak, but that is not a new issue.

[TheOriginalAmerican]

3. It's going to be years before Iraq is stable.

I think the Iraqi people have a right to have a say so concerning who they want to try to stabilize the region.

I think the Iraqi people know better than anybody in America (including the progressives) if an election is a good thing for them to have. Election day came, and they made it clear that this is what they wanted.

[bemildred]

4. That's very nice, but it has nothing to do with what I said. nt

[NGU]

6. Civil War

During the civil war in this country we had an election where most people were unable to vote. Did that make it an unhonest vote since it was in the middle of a war?

I'm not disagreeing. Just throwing out another thought.
:hi:

[bemildred]

10. At the time, we were two countries.

So you could argue it was legitimate for the country as it existed then.
OTOH, clearly the states of the confederacy did not accept the result,
so to them the result was not legitimate. That would seem somewhat like
the situation of the Sunni areas right now.

[Yupster]

12. The Confederacy had an election in 1864

Some of its major cities were occupied including its largest city. There were federal armies roaming throughout the country.

Still the vote was held. They just did the best they could. What more could they do. If the county was able to have a vote, they did. If they weren't, they didn't. What more could they do? Let the occupier cancel their election?

[bemildred]

22. Indeed. nt

[DrWeird]

5. Of course it is.

Do you really think the US wants the Iraqis to decide what happens in Iraq?

[leesa]

7. Yes. The only reason Iraqis were out there voting is because they were

ordered to by the Shiite leadership. They are honoring this order. So is it fraud? I wouldn't call it that, but I would just call it the joke that it is. The Shiites wanted to guarantee a majority and they will play the occupier's game to the occupier's detriment.

Americans are so dumb. The Shiites must be laughing their asses off (through their furious tears)

[NGU]

8. Vote or Die

Isn't that what we were told? So when we are told to "vote or die" by Dem leadership did it quit being a valid election? Just curious.

B-)

[dflprincess]

9. Whether it is still a fraud or not

will depend on what happens after it is announced that Allawi lost. What'd ya want to bet that it will be announced that there were enough "irregularities" that a revote is needed?

[Yupster]

13. My guess is Sistani's faction

asks Allawi to stay on as Prime Minister until the Constitution is written and the permanent government is elected. Then they can have an orderly transfer of power. I think Sistani has played his role very shrewdly and responsibly and I'd expect him to continue. It's easy to be magnanimous when you have the numbers.

[neweurope]

16. Good Guess. Maybe Sistani had to promise this to the US. I always

wondered why the Bushistas caved in so quickly when Sistani demanded elections etc.

----------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[bemildred]

11. Is the legitimacy of an election determined by it's outcome?

I submit the answer is no.

[Jack Rabbit]

14. The Iraq vote still had problems

It was held under a foreign occupation

A large segment of population boycotted the polls

Nihilists attempted to disrupt the process

The names of the candidates were not listed out of fear for their safety

That Allawi is going down in flames only means that that much was beyond fixing.

While I don't like Islamic republicans, I must confess a sense of schadenfreude at seeing them win. Bush and his neoconservative pals must be frosted.

[neweurope]

17. Agree. That the names of the candidates weren't listed had

intrigued me. So the POTENTIAL members of the assembly were afraid. But once elected they wouldn't have to be afraid anymore?

I think this was done for one reason only: That the people would elect Allawi whose name everybody knows.

-------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[eridani]

15. I'd like to know who is counting the votes--

--and how that process is overseen.

[mordarlar]

18. I read something that intimated there was an oil deal for rushed elections

http://dahrjamailiraq.com/weblog/archives/dispatches/000193.php#more

It is a little down on the page.

[radfringe]

19. Allawi won't lose

it's magic "blue" ink -- it changes to "red" ink

and a few "boxes" of ballots will either suddenly appear or disappear...

it's the "OVERSEAS" votes

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=2&u=/ap/20050205/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

----snip---

Allawi, who lived in exile in Britain during Saddam's rule, had been expected to draw support from many voters outside Iraq.

--------------

[Jack Rabbit]

20. BBC reports the overseas vote

From this story:

The International Organization for Migration (IOM), which supervised the absentee ballot, said the United Alliance list had received 36.15% of 263,685 ballots cast overseas.

The Kurdish Alliance list came second, with 78,062 votes, or 29.6% of the expatriate vote and the list of candidates led by interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi came third, with 9.15%.

Allawi is getting beat up worse in the overseas vote than he is in Iraq.

[BillZBubb]

21. YES!!!!!!

That country was in no shape to have a legitimate election of any sort. The outcome is immaterial to that fact.