Any chance that the next Pope will be more liberal?

[MikeG]

[DavidDvorkin]

1. Much more conservative, I expect

[merwin]

2. Any chance the next republican candidate will be more liberal?

[LostInAnomie]

3. Nope

After PJPII dies I bet the Vatican puts a hard liner in place to close ranks.

[AlCzervik]

4. No way, the guy who i've talked about as the next Pope

is very hardline, i can't remeber his name though, sorry.

[Warpy]

17. Danziger is one name

And he makes the woman hater in the office now look like a flaming liberal.

They may try to prove they're open minded by picking that nutcase from Kenya who wants to excommunicate all Democratic politicians.

In any case, their teaching has been called into question, especially their teachings on matters they know absolutely nothing about. Expect thenm to try to force the faithful into their narrow, pinched mold by electing the worst of the lot.

My guess is that the Episcpalians are going to see a sudden surge in new membership.

[Dorian Gray]

22. Danzinger?

Do you mean Ratzinger?

[regnaD kciN]

31. Yep. "Grand Inquisitor" Ratzinger is the one...

Under his leadership, the Vatican division once known as the Holy Office of the Inquisition cracked down on theological and pastoral liberals, and even broke with a long-held principle of the Roman Catholic Church in holding that dissent from even non-infallible statements from Rome makes a theologian subject to investigation and punishment.

He also declared the 1968 anti-contraception encyclical Humanae Vitae to be covered by papal infallibility, meaning that the ban on birth control can never be changed in the future. This was considered surprising, since no one else at the Vatican had made such a claim, and even the Pope who issued it declared that it was not an infallible teaching. However, should Ratzinger become pontiff, one may expect that he will make it such -- along with an eternal ban on allowing women into the priesthood.

[SOteric]

5. Not especially.

Popes are usually chosen in the college of cardinals, most of whom are more conservative even than is the current pope.

[CatholicEdHead]

8. Yep

I am not holding out hope for a turnaround. Only more of the same, probably worse.

[n2mark]

9. The next pope

will be conservative because the catholic church I feel is controlled by the evangelicals. I heard rumors that there are many groups in the church here meeting for change especially for priests to marry

[SOteric]

10. The Catholic church is controlled by the evangelicals?

I don't think that could possibly be the case. A great many evangelicals have little love and no respect for the Roman church, and the Catholic Church world wide has more power and wealth than any little pocket of zealots amoung American Protestants.

[CatholicEdHead]

15. Some lay groups are quasi-born again

With their extreme focus on Abortion/Gay Marriage/etc... They are Catholic Answers, Ave Maria College, Ave Maria Radio, Relevant Radio, EWTN for a few examples.

The bios of many hosts are they are just recent converts. They have a conservative protastant background before that. In my eyes it is the born-again evangialicism just slightly tweaked for Catholics. Those groups sure push the division lines in church.

[SOteric]

18. Sure, sure...

I'm aware of that, but it's a far cry from saying that the Catholic Church is controlled by evangelicals. That, to me, just seems unreasonable. And as I said, a great many evangelicals have not love nor respect for Catholicism.

[keep_left]

19. AKA the "Catholicrazies".

They're just dangerous as hell, and are in favor of a total flat-earth agenda. They also have a permanent gleam in their eyes over the possibility of an Opus Dei Pope. The self-appointed "Catholic media" like "Irrelevant Radio" and EWTN are just totally unlistenable. Just hearing those people talk makes my blood boil.

I've looked into the backgrounds of many of these groups and they're nearly always former Protestant fundies that were so crazy that even Robertson and Falwell were too liberal for them. Even that horrible Mother Angelica (EWTN) is a former Southern Baptist.

You're quite right that they are pushing division lines in the Church. I came to the conclusion long ago that their strategy is to peel off the craziest of the crazy from the Protestant fundamentalist movement in order to engineer a takeover of the Church. There is also a conscious pandering to the Catholicrazies from the religious right. (Of course, that's problematic due to the inherent anti-Catholicism of the far-religious-right, which is a political fault line on the right that ought to be exploited as often as possible by our side).

The worst part about the Catholicrazies is that they have significant influence inside the Church (particularly through organizations like Opus Dei).

[hatrack]

26. Not unlike Sen. Sam Brownback (R-KS)

He didn't find his brand of Protestant Thumpism thumpy enough, so he's now a Roman Catholic - like Scalia and Thomas and the rest of the Opus Dei crowd.

Oh, and yes, in case you were wondering, he is thinking seriously of running for president. :puke:

[keep_left]

28. Yes, that's correct...

Brownback, Sanitarium (err...Santorum), Scalia, and Thomas are all confirmed Opus Dei. As are Robert Novak and Kate O'Beirne of National Review/CNN "Capital Gang" fame. There are many others, including convicted spy Robert Hanssen, former FBI director Louis Freeh, Robert Bork, RW publisher Alfred Regnery, and Larry Kudlow (CNBC). RW radio host Laura Ingraham admitted to being a recent convert to Catholicism and it has been suggested that she may also be a member, though I have never seen confirmation of this.

One of the best places for information and news about OD is the Opus Dei Awareness Network: <http://www.odan.org/index.htm>

[n2mark]

21. The Evangelicals may not have love for the catholics

but I am hearing their words during Sunday sermons. The Catholic church is also receiving faith based money, Catholic charities receiving a huge chunk. I'll do searching on this again, but during the summer I read that the Catholic church is receiving money. I was also concerned during the election the church was spouting the same reasons not to vote for Kerry as the Evangelicals. In sermons the priests do not say Pres. Bush but GW with a big grin on their face. Maybe it is just me but GW is more personal compared to President.

[WillowTree]

16. I don't know where you're getting your info...

....but the Catholic Church is not an "evangelical" church in the common useage of the word and many, if not most, evangelicals do not even consider Catholics to be "true Christians".

The Catholic Church is very conservative, true, but it doesn't need anyone else to tell it to be, nor is the Church "in the pocket" of any other entity. 'Twas ever thus.

[El Supremo]

6. Since I think this Pope selected most of the Cardinals that would elect...

the next Pope, I doubt it. Talk about an undemocratic system!

[DoYouEverWonder]

7. Not if Opus Dei gets their way

If one of those wackos gets to be pope, then it is the end of the world.

[WillowTree]

11. Are you old enough...

....to remember Pope Paul, the one who preceded John Paul I who died barely a month after he became Pope? If not, you may not believe this, but by comparison, John Paul II is a screaming, radical, far-Left Liberal.

Honest.

But, in answer to your question, the answer is that the next Pope or any for the foreseeable future is not likely to be appreciably more Liberal than John Paul II by virtue of the fact that the Church itself is, almost by definition, pretty darned conservative. This is to be expected, at least for the balance of our lifetimes. That's just the way it is.

[Stunster]

12. Yes, there's a chance

Although the pope has appointed many supposed conservatives as Cardinals, it's quite likely that many of these Cardinals were only conservative because that's what they had to be get ahead. It's like many political types will choose to be Republicans when that is more likely to get them elected, but would choose to be Democrats if that was more likely.

I think many bishops in the Church are not as conservative as the pope is at heart, and only come across as conservative in order to toe the line.

However, I think the most likely possibility is that the next pope will be a short-term transitional figure. The Cardinals are not going to vote for someone who might live another 27 years.

One highly regarded progressive candidate is actually the Cardinal of Honduras, Madariaga. Consider

Cardinal Oscar Rodriguez Madariaga of Honduras is reported by a reputable news service to have made the following statement on March 27th to reporters in discussing the Iraq war:

"The true motives for this conflict are already emerging, and there are frightening economic interests involved. For example, destruction is carried out in order to have a pretext for reconstruction," Cardinal Rodriguez said.

See also http://www.santegidio.org/pdm/news2004/22_05_04_b.htm

and http://www.thetablet.co.uk/cgi-bin/citw.cgi/past-00005

[mitchum]

13. Not a chance in hell

[NV Whino]

14. Ditto

We're talkin' Catholic church, here.

[Mistwell]

20. I'm betting he will be latino

I am betting the next Pope is from Latin America. He will be more liberal on some issues, and more conservative on others, but overall slightly more conservative.

The church has been taking one on the chin for 5 years or so, and they usually seek a return to their roots when that sort of thing happens.

[Dorian Gray]

23. Latin America?

That would be unprecedented? Which Cardinal from Latin America are you thinking?

I would guess that they would go Africa before Latin America!

[Mistwell]

24. Predictions of a Latino Pope

90% of Latin Americans identify with the Roman Catholic Church, and it has a very long and relatively stable tradition there (unlike Africa, where Catholisism is growing very rapidly, but not with a long basis of tradition). 23 of the 114 currently eligible voters are from Latin America as well, which is pretty good considering Italy only has 18 now.

I predict it will be one of these three men: Cardinal Claudio Hummes of Brazil; Cardinal Oscar Andres Rodriguez Maradiaga of Honduras; or Cardinal Dario Castrillon Hoyos of Colombia (though he is probably too old). There is an outside chance for Cardinal Jaime Lucas Ortega Y Alamino of Cuba as well. He would be a very interesting choice.

Cardinal Giovanni Battista Re of Italy has an outside chance as well, as he is President of Latin America in the Catholic Heirarchy, which gives him a slight edge.

A lot of folks are predicting Cardinal Francis Arinze of Nigeria. I am betting against him, for the reasons I mentioned.

[Cleita]

25. Didn't the last two liberal Popes die unexpectedly?

Don't count on it and if one should be elected, he may not be around very long.

[whirlygigspin]

27. according to St Malachy's prophecy

The next pope is called Gloria olivae, or the glory of the olive--So place your bets on a benedictine.

Oh, and please note, after him according to the prophecy will come the final Pope.

"In persecutione extrema S.R.E. sedebit Petrus Romanus, qui pascet oues in multis tribulationibus: quibus transactis ciuitas septicollis diruetur, & Iudex tremêdus iudicabit populum suum. Finis.

(In extreme persecution, the seat of the Holy Roman Church will be occupied by Peter the Roman, who will feed the sheep through many tribulations, at the term of which the city of seven hills will be destroyed, and the formidable Judge will judge his people.)"

The End

http://www.catholic-pages.com/grabbag/malachy.asp

fun huh?

[Mistwell]

32. Carlo Maria Martini or Silvano Piovanelli?

http://www.rense.com/general10/secretss.htm

Many people recently have equated Malachy's "Gloria Olivae" with Cardinal Carlo Maria Martini, a favourite among many Vatican watchers to succeed John Paul II. These commentators compare his surname of Martini with that alcoholic aperitif's association with the Olive.

Or, another possibility, the state of Tuscany is famous as the most important Olive growing region in Italy, it's capital is Florence. The current Cardinal Archbishop of Florence was born in 1924 in Ronta Di Mugello, near Florence. His father was an olive grower. The Cardinal Archbishop's name is Silvano Piovanelli. You can extract the word "Olivae" from the surname "Piovanelli". Is this St. Malachy's "Gloria Olivae" or just a simple coincidence?

[whirlygigspin]

33. I was wondering about a nice Jewish Pope

Jean-Marie Lustiger,Archbishop of Paris, Lustiger was born of a Polish Jewish family in France. After his parents were deported to death camps during the Nazi occupation, he lived with a Christian family in Orléans and converted to Catholicism at the age of 13.

Spooky cool if he became Pope--

[bobweaver]

29. If you're waiting for the day when priests can get married, or the day...

...when women can be priests, or the day when homosexuals can be married in the Catholic church, or the day when the Catholic church is "okay" with abortion.... well, just be patient. Only 1,000 years to go.

[fujiyama]

30. No

They will be more liberal.

As conservative as the current pope is, I think he will look like a flaming liberal in comparison.

It's like having Reagan and Bush compared. As bad as Reagan was, Bush almost makes him look liberal.

[mykpart]

34. It would be great if we could get another pope like

John XXIII. Of course, the Church has spent the last 40 years trying to undo all the good done by Vatican II.