So now what?

[UdoKier]

So now what?

[bryant69]

1. Hmmmmmm.

What about people who live in Barbara Boxer's district--this poll would seem to not include them.

There are lots of representatives and senators who do fight.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[babsbunny]

2. Law suits

Don't we still have law suits for a 2nd recount, against Bush/Cheney, against Blackwell? Maybe Bush being arrested for war crimes!? Anything?

[UdoKier]

5. Are you serious or just talking smack?

It's over baby.

[bryant69]

8. Hooray for defeatism

We should all just give up. That would show the Karl Roves of the world!

[UdoKier]

9. I'm not saying to give up.

The avenues you mention are OVER.

That's not to say that there are no other avenues.

[bryant69]

13. You know when you use all caps like that it really changes my mind

I mean I had some faith in the Democratic process but now that you have typed over in all caps, I know that such faith is foolish.

I don't think now, on the eve of the fight over Social Security, is a good time to give up on the system--this is an important fight, and more to the point, it's a fight we can win.

Bryant

[UdoKier]

14. Yes, let's all cling desparately to the tatters of "the system"

After all, it still works pretty well for the top 40% of us, right?

[bryant69]

16. Ah.

The veiled suggestion that I must be in the to 40% and therefore don't care all that much. Right on schedule. Now for me to ask my question. "Do you want a revolutionary path then?"

Your cue is to act coy or to suggest that you can't say what you really think because of the moderators.

[UdoKier]

19. WEll, what do you want me to say?

You've said it for me, and I'm not about to ask for my posting privileges to be revoked.

The Romanians did the right thing with Ceausescu...

[bryant69]

20. There it is

A morality play in one part, entitled "The Sellout and the Revolutionary."

Coming soon to an off-broadway theater near you!

Bryant

[UdoKier]

21. Your remarks would make sense in 1968 or even 1994

But if you don't think that things are fundamentally different now, you must be rather naive. I won't dare predict the outcome of social security, but the way things are going we are looking at permanent minority status, the "Washington Generals" of politics, and never, ever another democrat president, unless it's an absolute Zell Miller DINO.

[bryant69]

23. So in other words you and Rush Limbaugh are in total agreement

about the future of the Democratic Party?

Hmmmmm. Do you also believe that Bush won a huge mandate in the last election?

[UdoKier]

24. No, Limbaugh thinks the results were legit.

I think that the machines are rigged, minority voters are being blocked from voting, and we have a congress that said loudly yesterday "We don't care".

But that's cute, the pro-establishment at all costs guy trying to box me in with OxyRush.

Kinda like when republicans call dems racist for criticizing Condi or Gonzalez, isn't it?

[bryant69]

25. Not really

Because your statements about the Democratic Party are something that Rush Limbaugh has said. I mean you really do both have the same opinion--the Democratic Party has been permenantly marginalized, and will fade into obscurity. You disagree on how that happened or why it happened, but you agree that that is is a forgone conclusion.

I disagree, and I beleive that the Bush Administration and the Neo-Conservative movement is woefully over extended. After 8 years of sensible government and progress by Bill Clinton, they've managed to tear that down in four years.

I'm the pro-establishment at all costs guy? That's a long nickname--you should have just stuck with Sell-out. I mean that's what it means, right?

[UdoKier]

27. I never used the word sell-out

nor did I ever allude to YOUR income, but you've obviously got some bugaboos about those issues.

You don't have to be a sell-out or rich to be pro-establishment. Hell, a lot of dirt-poor kids went off to die in Iraq to protect the establishment's business interests and they get peanuts. How can you be a sell-out when you get diddly?

I'd like to think that you're right, but what difference does it make if the machines are rigged? We could get 60% of the people to vote dem and they would still jigger it to show that they "won".

[bryant69]

29. Yeah I'm a bundle of neurosis

Anyway I make a middle class income, but i'm single with no kids, so i have more free money.

And here we get to the part I dont' really want to admit, since I know the abuse that will be heaped upon my head--I don't think there was widespread machine voter fraud. All I've seen is circumstantial evidence at best, if someone gets the Goods down the road I'll buy it, but right now, I don't buy it.

I support Barbara Boxer and her actions, because I think there should be further investigation--I don't think we should just shut our backs on the situation, but, that said, my take right now is that Bush won legitimately.

[UdoKier]

30. Perhaps he did.

With the machines as they are, there is no way to tell in the states with the electronic machines.


There are plenty of people stupid enough to vote for him. Maybe even 51%.

But the people may as well have cast their votes on pieces of wet tissue paper. That's how much confidence I have in those machines.

YOu say that there is no evidence that there was vote fraud or that Bush didn't win.

Is there any evidence that Bush DID win in the Diebold & ES&S states, other than unverifiable, easily hackable tallies in the electronic ether? Where are the paper ballots, each approved by the voter for accuracy?

[UdoKier]

3. I live in her district and am very proud of her.

But I also voted for Kerry. What a f'ing waste that was.

And no, there are not "a lot" of senators and reps who stand up and fight. They are a small minority of democrats.

[bryant69]

7. It was a waste to vote for Kerry?

I don't understand your reasoning here.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[UdoKier]

10. Even Kerry hasnt seen fit to do anything about the Ohio disenfranchisement

And he never passed up a chance to put on a "sperm suit" for the cameras. He didn't really want to win, IMO.

[bryant69]

15. Well I respectfully disagree with your opinion

Kerry ran a good campaign. He lost and I'm still pissed off about that, but it has more to do with Karl Rove's dirty tricks involving Gay marriage than it has to do with any "sperm suit."

[UdoKier]

18. What impressed you most about it?

When he refused to answer the Swifty Liars' charges? When he refused to stand up for the principled stand he took against the Vietnam war, and instead spewed that "reporting for duty" crap that annoyed both left and right-wingers/

Was it when he missed EVERY CHANCE in EVERY DEBATE to clarify the "voted for it before I voted against it" "flip-flop"?

Or was it when he conceded before all the votes had even been counted?

[txaslftist]

37. Bryant, I'm with you!

Keep flaming this head-like-pin.

[firebee]

28. IMPEACHMENT!!!!

We all know that Bush has personal financial stakes in the Saudi Royal Family and the Bin Laden Family. We have to tie all of the Saudi - Bush stuff together and make the case for impeachment.

[liberal N proud]

4. How about getting involved,

I mean more than most of us were in the November election.
Actually going to party meetings, each county had a Democratic club.
Go and speak out, make your views known.
This is the best way to change the system.

[txaslftist]

38. Rock on Liberal N Proud!

[Ganja Ninja]

6. I want you to go to your window.

Go to your window right now and stick your head out and yell as loud as you can "I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore!"

[Individualist]

12. I've felt like actually doing that so many times! n/t

[DireStrike]

11. Other: Give up and cry in multiple posts because the world isnt perfect.

What do you want? It's better for election reform this way. If they would have all stood, it would have become a partisan issue. Now we can accuse the repubs of being partisan and AGAINST LETTING EVERY AMERICAN VOTE.

[UdoKier]

17. This is the most illogical post I have ever seen.

Having only one senator stand up against vote fraud is better than having EVERY Democrat stand?

This SHOULD BE a partisan issue. The dems should be eager to stand up for their namesake, but they have taken the side of the GOP in legitimizing this sham of an election.

Look at the "reforms" we got after the Florida 2000 debacle. Unverifiable, GOP-manufactured Electronic voting machines spreading like wildfire across the country.

Expect more of the same kind of "reform" this time.

[DireStrike]

31. When that happens, THEN it's time to leave

Not because the dems are trying to play politics - it's all they know!

We should be spinning this into a victory, not focusing on the negative. The objection happened - that's at least some progress!

[UdoKier]

32. Spinning what happened yesterday into a victory...

...would make me look very much like this guy:



We are winning! The republicans are in full retreat! All hail our glorious victory!

[DireStrike]

34. While that's very clever and amusing, I disagree.

[UdoKier]

35. The fact that you have to SPIN it to begin with...

... ought to tell you something.

But hey, whatever gets you through the day.

[LSdemocrat]

22. Other: Take over the party from the bottom up

Go to your Democratic township, ward, or precinct meetings. Get your friends to go. Run for party offices. Encourage other grassroots activists to take over the party where they live. Get together and change your state party. Find other state Democratic party leaders that agree with you. Finally, take over the DNC and make it the party you want it to be.

[Pegleg Thd]

26. We are planning

to put our house up for sale after we get back from a trip west this spring. We may join some of our relatives in Canada until 2009--if I live that long.

[Freddie Stubbs]

33. That is one the most intelligent, constructive posts I have seen on DU

in quite a while. Instead of whining about the mean Senators, DLC, and DNC, you have laid out a positive strategy for people to achieve their political goals.

[txaslftist]

39. THANK YOU LS DEMOCRAT

I wonder, though. Is the LS for Lousiana? It's funny, because I'm from Texas, and all of the real, we're gonna stick it out and fight to take the party back posts seem to be from the south, including Maryland. All of the 'I'm disappointed in the party so I'm going independent' posts seem to be from yankees. Is this Bull Run all over again?

[LSdemocrat]

41. Actually I'm from St. Louis, Missouri

So I guess I have a little bit of the North and South around here.

The LS are actually my initials.

[julialnyc]

36. depends who replaces mcauful and if we get a real candidate

to me it depends on the candidate and not the party.

I'm hoping for wes clark (dem, green, blue, orange...i don't care what party)

[Name removed]

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