Nader: where has he been?

[jpgray]

His voice could have been helpful in the past four years. Where was he? His credibility is shot in my opinion when he only deigns to venture outside his batcave every four years. Those "evil" Democrats have been fighting Bush all along, and Kucinich is as good if not better than Nader on policy.

So what function does he serve? I used to think he wanted to get his issues out there, but seeing as he clams up unless a presidential race is on, I'm beginning to see him as a worthless opportunist. I've also heard some shocking things about him personally--his former staffers are not at all complimentary. He is also a union buster, is dishonest about his means and where he lives, and certainly is hypocritical about investments.

What good is this guy? Why would ANYONE support him as long as Kucinich is still in the primary? I don't get it.

[RummyTheDummy]

1. LMAO!!!!

"His credibility is shot in my opinion when he only deigns to venture outside his batcave every four years."

THe line of the night! So true.

[Terwilliger]

2. Where has he been?

oh fer cripes sake...would you people stop! He's been there the whole fucking time calling out Bush, calling out left causes, very hard at work doing what he always does...defending citizens from corporate excess and actively engaging folks in government. You see what you want to see in order to make it fit.

By the by...

Why would ANYONE support him as long as Kucinich is still in the primary?

And after Kucinich has been eliminated?

[jpgray]

4. Hey I've been looking!

I don't chase the guy down, but I read newspapers and look for op/eds. I'm open-minded, Terwilliger and I agree with a lot that Nader says, but where has he been?

I'm supporting Kucinich, and if he drops back in fundraising I will kick in extra for him though I can scarce afford it. But Nader won't get a whole lot of sympathy from me this coming year--I am dead sick of Bush and his administration. If he was speaking, he could have been louder.

[Terwilliger]

7. He's been everywhere

I don't think you've been looking.

And why is Nader responsible to be the opposition to Bush? I thought those in power were the ones who were called on to do the opposition? Where have THEY been? Being strategic so they could win the 2002 elections? WOOPS!

[jpgray]

10. Where? I've Googled it

and I subscribe to several nationally prominent papers and news magazines, including several that have printed a piece by Nader in the past, or at least report on his actions.

Nader isn't responsible for it, but I wish he had done more. Those in power HAVE been criticizing Bush at every turn. All of them? Nope, but there have been several excellent warriors in both houses taking it to this administration every day. You watch Sherman (D, CA) on C-SPAN doing his scathing MasterCard bit to the other side of the aisle, Kucinich's blasting of the Iraq war back in February, Dean's constant hammering of Bush on Iraq, the stonewalling on the conservative appointees, and you can't say the Democrats have taken this lying down. Those who do submit are remembered. But that is by no means the case for all.

[depakid]

44. Try Common Dreaming it-

Google is a great search engine for many purposes, but its algorithm- called PageRank- has serious limitations. The biggest limitation is a "prejudice," if you will, toward "popular" or "important" and older established sites with lots of links pointing to them.

Since Nader is anathema to the corporate press (as is Chomsky) you'll only find his writings or Press Releases there when it suits their purposes. Therefore, "Googling" may not give you the most relevant results, especially if you're doing broad and general searches.

A quick search of commondream.org's site using only the keyword "nader" reveals a lot of material (Note: their algo's rankings are not time sensitive).

Here's a very small sample:

http://www.commondreams.org/news2002/0521-09.htm

http://www.commondreams.org/news2001/0212-03.htm

http://www.commondreams.org/news2001/0307-04.htm

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/1005-01.htm

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0417-11.htm

http://www.commondreams.org/news2001/0307-10.htm

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0720-08.htm

The list goes on and on-

Obviously, there are many other sources, many other search engines and even if you see a lot of up front search returns relating to 2000, look a little further and you'll find that Nader's not been silent nor hiding in a Batcave.

[jpgray]

46. Already on it

Several op/eds and appearances of Nader have been posted below.

[ShaneGR]

78. He's been at the RNC Headquarters

Figuring out a plan to get * elected again.

[pasadenademocrat]

33. Why pick on St. Ralph?

Well, we won't stop because his hubris is responsible for President George W. Bush.

[jiacinto]

3. Nader is a worthless opportunist

But unfortunately some of his most ardent supporters will go to the most extreme lenghts to rationalize him.

[Terwilliger]

8. 40 years of public service is worthless opportunism

OH yah...makes sense

[jpgray]

12. That's the problem--no resting-on-laurels allowed!

He has an admirable history, which is why his voice would have been appreciated over the past few years! It was pretty lonely out there for those Democrats brave enough to take it to Bush on his big, popular and controversial stances. I remember their names and they all get a gold star from me.

[depakid]

15. You might as well not argue with these people

There's nothing you can say- no matter how many articles you quote, they will remain relentless in their obsessive hatred of Nader. It's kind of sad, really.

[Terwilliger]

18. I know

but they're Democrats! I'm supposed to like them! :shrug:

[Forkboy]

25. I've said it before and I'll say it again

The pure hatred displayed by the Nader-Haters is exactly the same mentality shown by the Hillary-Haters.

They'll claim,"Oh no,we're not like THEM." But they are.

[depakid]

50. Trying to separate the source from the message is hard

You could be right, but I'm not so sure. I think that there's a lingering resentment (which has some basis in fact) that keeps Greens and Dems from uniting for a common purpose.

Personally, I wish more people recalled the Shadow Conventions and the issues we tried to raise there. I wish more people would set aside their differences and look for commonalities. And I especially wish that we this time Green and Dem AND DLC could all unite with a National Agenda to defeat the Republican/Freeper insanity.

Right now what we are looking at is posturing toward that National Agenda. And Nader's posturing, hoping to influence the agenda. So are Reed and From.

Nothing "wrong" or unusual about that.

[jiacinto]

61. My problem with Nader is his dishonesty

nt

[Terwilliger]

72. you were at the Shadow Convention?

Philly or LA? I was in LA that whole week.

[depakid]

76. In LA

it was literally a riot.

[jiacinto]

60. You might as well not argue with these people

There's nothing you can say--no matter how many articles you quote, they will remain rentless in their blind worship and devotion to their God Ralph Nader. It's kind of sad, really.

[noiretextatique]

9. hahahahahahhahahaha

here's the pot...

[Liberalism]

5. Nader Sucks

Where has he been? He's been taking votes from the leftist/progressive liberals instead of working to elect MORE leftist-Democratic candidates to Congress and strengthening the Democratic party. Think of all this great man could of done for the Democratic party, instead of abandoning and harming it by attracting Democrats to the Green Party. A vote for a Green is a vote for a Republican. Plain and simple. I signed a petition encouraging Nader not to run in 2004. Think what we could accomplish TOGETHER if Nader strengthened the Democratic party by working hard to elect more progressive Democratic candidates to Congress instead of working against Democrats and blaming them for allowing the country to become too far to the right. He needs to put his action where his mouth is.

[jpgray]

6. I support Greens in local races, and didn't mind Nader in 2000

But this race I don't have any more slack to give. Bush needs to be thrown out on his ass.

[thermodynamic]

71. Be careful who you come out to

Not all people around here are Green-friendly.

It's funny how people like to scapegoat entire groups for their own problems... :-(

[jonnyblitz]

22. LOL....why do you DEMS think progressives OWE you loyalty??

too fucking funny and sad.... You guys sold out a long time ago and nobody owes you guys jack shit. Maybe if you guys stopped acting like Republican light Nader would become irrelevant...

[TLM]

86. Greens ran against welstone...

being too far left has nothing to do with it. Nader and some greens have as their stated goal, the destruction of the democratic party.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,393674,00.html

Nader often makes this "the worse, the better" point on the stump in relation to Republicans and the environment. He says that the Reagan-era interior secretary James Watt was useful because he was a "provocateur" for change, noting that Watt spurred a massive boost in the Sierra Club's membership. More recently, Nader applied the same logic to Bush himself. Here's the Los Angeles Times' account of a speech Nader gave at Chapman University in Orange, California, last week: "After lambasting Gore as part of a do-nothing Clinton administration, Nader said, 'If it were a choice between a provocateur and an anaesthetiser, I'd rather have a provocateur. It would mobilise us.' "

Lest this remark be considered an aberration, Nader has said similar things before. "When lose, they say it's because they are not appealing to the Republican voters," Nader told an audience in Madison, Wisconsin, a few months ago, according to a story in the Nation. "We want them to say they lost because a progressive movement took away votes."

That might make it sound like Nader's goal is to defeat Gore in order to shift the Democratic party to the left. But in a more recent interview with David Moberg in the socialist paper In These Times, Nader made it clear that his real mission is to destroy and then replace the Democratic party altogether. According to Moberg, Nader talked "about leading the Greens into a 'death struggle' with the Democratic party to determine which will be the majority party". Nader further and shockingly explained that he hopes in the future to run Green party candidates around the country, including against such progressive Democrats as Senator Paul Wellstone of Minnesota, Senator Russell Feingold of Wisconsin, and Representative Henry Waxman of California. "I hate to use military analogies," Nader said, "but this is war on the two parties."

[noiretextatique]

11. nader has been criticisizing bush

there have been some threads here. unfortunately, they get inundated with haters...so his message gets lost in the noise.

[jpgray]

13. I applaud him if he has

But I wish to hell he would have been louder. I don't have much slack to give in this coming election, and if an objectionable Democrat is nominated, I will have to use it all up there. I would rather put the most offensive Democratic presidential candidate in office and protest his odious stances every day than leave Bush in there for another minute.

I didn't mind him in 2000, but my patience is wearing thin this time around. Sorry. I won't "bash" Nader for his views or his criticisms of Bush, because he is right on in both cases.

[noiretextatique]

16. louder...how do you porpose that?

when democrats can barely get their message across in the mainstream media? you need to look to alternative media to hear him.

[jpgray]

19. Give me examples?

Sorry to ask you to do my research for me, but it's not like I've been living in even the relative cave of others here at DU who think all Democrats are spineless. I've been looking at several alternative media early into this presidency. Nader is able to get some press when he wants it, as he is currently proving. I guarantee he has more name-recognition than Kucinich among the general public.

[noiretextatique]

21. try commondreams or counterpunch

if i recall correctly, some of his comments have been reported there.

[jpgray]

24. OK I'll check them out

The problem is, I can point to dozens of elected Dems criticizing Bush, even on the most controversial topics, but I can't point to Nader. I'll try to dig some things up.

[SEAburb]

20. How many anti-war rallies did Nader attend

In Jan and Feb Nader was to busy traveling the country speaking out on the evils of SUV's to bother with the coming Iraq war. He really has his priorities in order. The only time I heard him speak out against the war was after Bush gave Saddam the deadline to get out of Iraq and he only attack Dems then.

[Forkboy]

26. How many Dems attended the anti-war rallies?

2,maybe 3?

[Terwilliger]

28. I think it was 3

[SEAburb]

30. I bet you can't prove that, nt

.....

[Terwilliger]

37. I saw Barbara Lee once

and I saw Kucinich on C-SPAN at one of them

There might have been a few others, but I'd like to see your proof.

[Forkboy]

48. Rangel and McKinney did if I'm correct

and we know how the Dems feel about her :eyes:

So thats a whopping 4 so far.How many voted for the war again?

[SEAburb]

58. is your point, Nader and democrats are the same, Forkboy

OOOOOHHHH YEAH!!! That has to hurt.

[Forkboy]

74. Nope

I'm pointiong out your blatant hypocrisy in accussing Nader of not attending any rallies (I don't know if he did or not) when your beloved Dems couldn't be bothered,and actually voted FOR the war.

Yes,it did hurt to seem them so spineless in such an important matter.How many US soldiers and innocent Iraqis have died as a result of that? Nader was in no position to do much of anything while the Dems you're defending actually could have done something besides bending over and grabbing their ankles.

Got any more questions,sarcastic or serious?

[sandnsea]

14. Worldcom with Donahue

Donahue had a couple of programs with Ralph on them during the Worldcom/Enron mess. But otherwise, I agree, I haven't seen him at all. Of course, I haven't seen many Democrats the last couple of years.

To the batcave Robin!

[revcarol]

17. If he really wanted to talk about corporate corruption,

he could have blown the roof off the WH with revealing all the sweetheart no-bid contracts the Bush administration is giving out.How many $$ has Halliburton made building bases in the "'stan" countries?How much are we, the taxpayers, paying to guard oil execs and civilians in Iraq? How much of our foreign aid is eaten up in the protection of private enterprise? And a hundred other questions...

His last fund-raising letter talked about how well he did in blowing the whistle on Enron. HUH?

He doesn't want to touch the Bushies for THEIR corporate corruption. Just go after what is already in the public eye and make hay on it.

I have a lot of respect for the Green Party here locally and statewide, but NOT nationally.


From the Kucinich campaign: (Albuquerque Journal)"Kucinich said he is sometimes asked why he is a Democrat instead of a Green, given his progressive views...'I'M DOING MISSIONARY WORK,' Kucinich said."

AND THE CROWD ROARED. I was there and I roared too.

[jpgray]

23. That's a great Kucinich quote!

But there are Democrats like Dennis out there, even in the Senate. He's right in saying we need more of them.

[sandnsea]

34. Missionary Work

lol That's funny.

Ain't it grand we've still got our sense of humor?

[jpgray]

27. Well I found this googling Nader+Bush+2001

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/mar2001/nad-m30.shtml

Earlier this month former Green Party presidential candidate Ralph Nader co-authored a column that appeared on the op-ed pages of the Wall Street Journal. Entitled “Ending Corporate Welfare as We Know It,” the article by Nader and Robert Weissman (editor of the Nader-backed Multinational Monitor magazine) presented a generally positive picture of the newly installed administration of Republican President George W. Bush.

Nader and Weissman went on to praise Bush's budget outline, published the preceding week, for proposing a reduction in funding for three federal programs that provide government subsidies to corporations: the Overseas Private Investment Corporation, the Export-Import Bank and the Advanced Technology Program.

“These are positive steps,” wrote Nader. He then proceeded to applaud Bush's Treasury Secretary, Paul O'Neill, who “has voiced skepticism about the Wall Street bailouts regularly engineered by the International Monetary Fund in coordination with his Department.”

Not the best of statements.

[messiah]

29. Typical Bullshit Thread

People like you would ask this exact same question even when I posted almost daily news on the activist part of Nader in the editorials and other articles forum.

I see many of you do not pay any attention to Nader, so why ask of him if you are to lazy to look and see what he does?.

[jpgray]

32. Please read the posts

.

[messiah]

36. I

have read your post and I will not edit mine.

[jpgray]

39. Fair enough

.

[jpgray]

31. Here's a good one, but it's Bush criticism within Dem criticism?

http://www.counterpunch.org/nader1109.html

The mid-term elections are over. After spending hundreds of millions of business dollars, the Republicans now control the Senate and hold on to the House of Representatives. It is amazing that the Democrats did not do worse. They had decided months ago on a strange strategy --that they were going to defeat the Republicans by not criticizing their belligerent leader, George W. Bush.

In their ads, literature and debates between Senatorial and Representative candidates, mention of Mr. Bush by them was to praise not to challenge, or to expose the hypocrisy, and the damage to American workers and consumers by this corporation President.

Listening to the debate from around the country on C-Span radio, I was astonished to see Democratic candidates in tight races eager to show their support for Bush's 2001 tax cut for the wealthy, for the give-a-way war resolution authority on Iraq, and for Bush's federal drive to take over the historical role of the states in personal injury law by restricting Americans' right to their full day in court.

He's right about Bush, but shouldn't he be criticizing Bush in an op/ed rather than Bush by way of Democrats? It's better than nothing, I guess; I'll keep looking.

[jpgray]

35. Another good op/ed, 2002--no mainstream press statements?

http://www.counterpunch.org/nader1223.html

George W. Bush has this thing about laws -- domestic or international -- that disagree with him. He likes to operate outside their embrace or withdraw from them or try to repeal them. It is not just personal -- as when he costs taxpayers millions to pay for his political trips on Air Force One before elections -- it also involves the health, and safety of Americans and people abroad.

Bob Woodward relates in his new book on Bush and war that the President admits to being a black and white person who makes decisions from his gut. A dubious enough personality type for a football coach, this trait raises serious concerns when imbedded in the commander-in-chief of the most powerful arsenal on Earth.

Consider what this gut instinct has done to our constitutional framework and the tenuous architecture of international law. Earlier this year, Bush launched an all out offensive on Congress to have it selectively surrender its exclusive constitutional authority to declare war against Iraq. Despite heroic efforts from legislators led by Senator Robert Byrd (D-WV), Congress supinely gave up its war-making power to the White House.

[Terwilliger]

41. what does that mean?

a mainstream press statement?

"Hi, New York Times? I want to make a statement. You'll publish it, right? Yeah, I want to eviscerate George Bush." THAT'll work :eyes:

[jpgray]

45. He has staff, and several non-profit advocacy groups

Such oprganiztions do have press departments.

Anyway, I have found a few more mainstream press criticism. And he has made several appearnces. He over-emphasizes Dem spinelessness, but everyone does that here.

[pasadenademocrat]

38. Online Petition asking Nader not to run for president again

WWW.AMIEVILORNOT.COM

[Terwilliger]

40. UGH

worse than a god pod

When that petition reaches 1 million signatures it will be delivered to Nader? Do you think that petition will reach 1000?

[jpgray]

42. 'Nother from 2002, but still not in the mainstream

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/1011-09.htm

President Bush should abandon his "one-track, monomaniacal" focus on war with Iraq and concentrate instead on America and domestic concerns, such as the "corporate crime wave sweeping the country," believes former Green Party presidential candidate Ralph Nader.

"It has been a year since the Enron bankruptcy and only two executives have been charged. No one has been tried or sentenced. Instead, America has been distracted by President Bush's daily drumbeat regarding war on Iraq," Nader said at a news conference Thursday before his appearance at the University of Utah as part of the young voter drive, Rock the Vote.

Nader's talk at Kingsbury Hall drew a large crowd of mostly students, who cheered and applauded his satirical jabs at the corporatization of government. Just minutes before the affair, however, the social critic delivered a more pointed condemnation of Bush's anti-terror campaign.

"Entire retirements have been wiped out; entire investments reduced to pennies and we haven't seen the end of it yet," said Nader, suggesting that Bush's true motive for distraction might be to turn citizens away from his own possible complicity in the Enron scandal -- his corporate campaign contributions and "sweetheart loans" he took while on the board of directors of Harken Energy Corp. in the late 1980s.

[jpgray]

43. Here's a good one from a local paper in Washington

Nader saved some of his harshest rhetoric for Bush and his administration's current move to declare war on Iraq. Nader pointed to a recent poll showing that two-thirds of the American people are opposed to a unilateral U.S. attack on Iraq that could result in heavy casualties.

"You would think the Democrats would see some opportunities in this," Nader said. "But instead, most of them -- with a few wonderful exceptions -- can't wait to roll over for George W. Bush. They're cowards on steroids."

Calling the war plans a distraction from more pressing domestic problems like the faltering economy, Nader spurned arguments that Saddam Hussein is a more direct threat to U.S. security than other hostile nations.

My only issue with this is that 23 Senators were against the war resolution. Also 123 members of the House. That is hardly a "few".

[jpgray]

47. Well, I answered my question

But I really had to dig for the articles. His criticism of Dems is exaggerated, and I don't approve of that. I don't approve of his personal actions, and if he just once says the Democrat and Republican candidates are the same (even if it's Joe) I will give up on him entirely--this election is too important.

However, I support many of his views and I think a far left viewpoint is important to have on a national scale. I would much prefer Dennis Kucinich get that spotlight than Nader, but I don't have outright hostility towards Ralph anymore. I will brook no criticisms of Democrats and Republicans being the same. And I will certianly not forgo blasting Nader if he EVER says that Dems didn't speak out against Bush, because they did so, and much more often and with more risk than Nader himself.

Heading to bed now.

[JackSwift]

49. Greens are a crypto Republican front

I'd like all Greens to be toast
On spits I'd like them to roast
Ov'r open pits in nearby dells
Telling lies in their sickly hells
Ralphostophilies can kiss my ass
On any day on blue green grass
He lies like Ari, tales does tell
He whores as often as monks ring bells
He can't tell the difference
between evil and well
It's how you know
He's a hollow shell

Greens are ripe with
Right wing stink
Socialist scum
Impacted pink
Increasing contradictions
Is their shame
For their own predilictions
They do blame

Flaming trollbait they do spill
On DU's pages
Doing Bush's will
Bitter buttmunchers,
Coulter snatchers
Bennett gamblers
Soul catchers
Does the feces of Nader or Bush
taste any different
I thought you'd would know
Cuz your whole life
Is one long blow
Some keep on coming
Where you're not wanted
You'll reap no friends
Social justice you've stunted
After Ralph gets old
gray
and dead
and you
can't
get out of bed
your days will have been a waste
the good fight you will never taste.
Not one person will you help
You cynical worthless
fecal whelp
I curse your cretinous
perverted soul
Your causual cruelty
Your being whole
In the battle
tween Dark and Light
you choose neither
as is your right
When poor and sick
did cry for aid
When oppressed and hungry
Their bodies laid
End to end in an open pit
You turned your eye and denied it
The evil was not enough
to get you off your lazy butt
You thought if things would just get worse
You might then open your purse
And when they did you turned again
Picked up your poison pen
and libeled those who fought the fight
never tiring day or night
You mocked their courage
Those who stayed
Too damn stupid to know
You were played

[depakid]

52. *

*

[Tinoire]

51. I really despair sometimes. Nader and Kucinich work together

Media Advisory
June 11, 2003
Contact: Rah-ed Ghuma: 410-467-3070
or Jason Kafoury: 202-465-2764

Ralph Nader’s “People Have the Power” Tour Hits Baltimore

Congressman Dennis Kucinich to Join Nader at Rally

Rally to help “Revitalize the Grassroots in Maryland”

Baltimore, MD: On Thursday, June 26, Ralph Nader's "People Have The Power" tour will bring to Maryland a unique blend of community activism and entertainment. Acknowledging the historic bond between social movements and music, Nader has woven the two together into a series of events that is expanding civic activism and grassroots organizing -- addressing such timely and critical issues as the human, social, economic and political costs associated with post war Iraq, the corporate business of war, the fragile state of our civil liberties and how citizens must stay vigilant to protect their environment and social services, such as education and health care.

Congressman Dennis Kucinich, Baltimore City Councilman Rev. Kwame Abayomi along with other performers and community leaders working for progressive social change will join Mr. Nader and encourage the audience to get involved with local campaigns.

“The purpose of these events this year is to bring people together in cities across America, which is especially critical now,” said Nader, America’s leading consumer activist. “Progressive people and organizations in Maryland and beyond must work together. Civil liberties, our nation’s security and the nation’s major social priorities, are at risk in the Executive Branch and Congress. All major peace and social justice successes in our history have started with a mobilization of the citizenry. We must further this tradition and strive to ensure that the values of democracy, law enforcement, respect for human rights and the protection of all innocent people prevail here both at home and around the world.”

Baltimore is the fifteenth stop of Nader’s nationwide tour beginning in 2001 in Portland, Oregon, and has since packed venues from San Francisco to Cleveland and NYC to Tampa. Nader likened this current tour to the “Super Rallies” he headlined during his bid for the Presidency in 2000. Those rallies filled ten major arenas, from Portland’s Memorial Coliseum to New York’s Madison Square Garden, with turnouts far larger than those of the 2000 major party candidates. This event is being sponsored by Nader's newest organization, Democracy Rising, which seeks to unify people “in the cause of freeing American politics from the grip of corporate interests,” Nader said.

The rally will be held at Johns Hopkins University, Shriver Auditorium, 3400 N. Charles St. Baltimore. The official program begins at 7:00 p.m. (doors, live music, and community group tabling at 5:30 p.m.). An array of community organizations will have information tables to distribute literature and solicit signatures for a variety of progressive causes. General admission tickets are $10 in advance and $15 at the door. Children 12 and under are free.

For information on the issues and the rally at Shriver Auditorium, call 410-467-3070 or check out www.DemocracyRising.org
See also:
http://www.democracyrising.org
----

Ralph Nader not only encouraged Kucinich to run, but invited him to speak on the Democracy Rising tour. Will Nader endorse the Kucinich campaign? Can Dennis move the Democratic Party to the left and bring the Greens back into the fold?
http://www.livejournal.com/users/insomnia/284120.html
----



February 27, 2002 - Congressman Kucinich and consumer advocate Ralph Nader discuss the need to police publicly traded corporations. Kucinich has introduced the Investor, Shareholder and Employee Protection Act of 2002 which creates the Federal Bureau of Audits to review the accounting books of publicly traded corporations.

[Pastiche423]

53. What was your purpose for this thread?

Just another one of your stealth bashings?

I grew up listening to Nader. He was the 1st consumer activist that took the government to task. I feel sorry for the people that are too blind to see how much he has given us. It is most likely because of Nader, that I became an activist.

As someone above has stated, the Nader haters sound like the ignoramuses on that web site so many here like to belittle.

Once again, I would like to remind everyone, that it was the SCOTUS that chose *, not Nader.

[JackSwift]

54. The damage he has done deliberately

far outweighs the limited good that others did and he took the credit for. Ralph Nader is scum. See above.

[Pastiche423]

55. What damage?

[JackSwift]

56. The Bush Presidency

I can see that you are still on the turnip truck, but in a plurality system, the guy with the most votes doesn't necessarily win. But you've heard it all and just disagree with it. Death to all Ralph Nader supporters! Preferably death by listening to Ralph lie.

[Pastiche423]

57. Doesn't your ignorance

of what happened in December 2000 embarrass you?

[Terwilliger]

59. from the DLC...NADER DID NOT COST GORE THE ELECTION

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?cp=3&kaid=86&subid=84&contentid=2919

The assertion that Nader's marginal vote hurt Gore is not borne out by polling data.

[jiacinto]

63. Nader made it close enough for Bush to steal

But see, with Nader apologists, they will go to any extreme to glorify and to defend their God.

[Terwilliger]

65. so, your buddy Al From is goofy?

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?cp=3&kaid=86&subid=84&contentid=2919

The assertion that Nader's marginal vote hurt Gore is not borne out by polling data. - Al From

[thermodynamic]

70. Yup, that whopping 3% in Florida made a big difference...

Or whatever the %ile was, shouldn't have Gore been a bit less lax in his campaign?! He couldn't even win his home state for crying out loud!!!

(I'll remind you I voted for Gore, but the way you green-bashers love to blame the greens for every stinking thing wrong in this country when they're hardly the problem, I tend to feel angre and regret that I didn't at times... Voting out of spite, says a lot about my own sanity, doesn't it? But it still puts me in the same boat as you lot, just in a different ward.)

[Forkboy]

79. Carlos

you could easily reverse your statement to fit you.You're no different from the people you're villifying when you spout this "Nader is God" crap.I know Greens,I talk to Greens...not one has said they worship Ralph...a couple don't even like him at all...imagine that!

It's counter-productive,self-righteous hyperbole for you to keep asserting that.From most of your posts it would be safe to say,"But see,with the DLC apologists,they will go to any extreme to glorify and defend their God."

Now,if that DOESN'T apply to you,don't you think it might be worth actually thinking about applying it to others so quickly and so broadly?

[jpgray]

75. To those bashing the thread, please READ the thread

thank you

[jiacinto]

62. I just love the rationalizations the Nader apologists bring

Had Nader not been in the race I fully think Gore would have won.

[Terwilliger]

67. from the DLC itself: Nader did not cost Gore the election

The assertion that Nader's marginal vote hurt Gore is not borne out by polling data. - Al From

[philosophie_en_rose]

73. Is that supposed to mean anything?

I don't believe that Nader should be blamed for 2000, but that doesn't mean that he deserves any sort of respect for his egomania and harm to every progressive political strategy.

Nader is not wrong about everything, but his political attacks on Democrats only empower Republicans.

[Terwilliger]

82. Yes it is

He did not cost Gore the election, and, as far as I'm concerned, just about everything he suggested in 2000 was spot on.

[LiberalLibra]

64. Nader is a "fair weather" candidate who wants a name for himself....

.....but notice the two major parties don't want him. The neo cons use him in their quest to beat Dems. That is his function so of course he only need come out of his cave every 4 years.

[jiacinto]

66. Nader is like a God to these people

They worship him like a God--it's kind of cultish if you ask me. Notice the lengths they will go to defend and to rationalize their hero.

[Terwilliger]

68. The DLC says it plainer than I can: Nader did not cost Gore the election

The assertion that Nader's marginal vote hurt Gore is not borne out by polling data. - Al From

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?cp=3&kaid=86&subid=84&contentid=2919

[Pastiche423]

69. Say it ain't so, Terwilliger!

If even the DLC says Nader din't cost Gore the election, where would the Nader beaters direct their irrational hate?

To this day, no one truly knows what the count was. The count was stopped via the Equal Protection and Due Process Clauses of the 14th Amendment. What I have often pondered was, how did the SCOTUS know * needed equal protection?

Could the felonious five have been clairvoyant?

I knew the gig was up on the night of November 8, 2000 when the cameras switched to the room where the BFEE stood in shock after Florida had been called for Gore. The expressions on their faces said it all.

I knew in my gut at that moment that the election had been rigged and it had absolutely nothing to do w/Nader.

[Forkboy]

81. EXACTLY Pastiche!!

I saw the same thing!! You could tell they knew something was up.I'll never forget that!

[TLM]

88. 100,000 votes for Nader vs 500 vote difference in FLA.

Quote all the opinion polls you want... they do not change the numbers.

If 1% of those who Nader pulled had voted Gore, it would have made the difference.

Nader made the thieft possible.

[Forkboy]

80. See post above Carlos

and you really need to stop this cartoonish view of Greens that you have.

[Iverson]

87. Nader is a fetish to those who must lie about him.

However, fetishizing Nader cannot be called an intellectual process. Those with pretensions to higher education have a special obligation to intellectual fidelity. Instead, some here make up knowingly false statements about godliness, despite this obligation to learning.

It's time to let go of the fetish. Come back to intellectual fidelity, or else welcome to it for the first time.

[jiacinto]

89. Well

I've used Nader's own statements when making assertions about him.

[Iverson]

90. no slipping out from under it

Projecting a belief of godhood into others - knowingly falsely - is not rehabilitated by your use of quotes at other moments.

You are wrong, and you know you're wrong.

Refer back to my statements about who has a special responsibility to maintain a fidelity to learning.

[jiacinto]

91. I am not wrong about Nader

nt

[Iverson]

92. You are wrong about people.

Don't you have the common decency to take back insults that you knew were false when you issued them?

I am damned if I will let someone else in higher learning make the kind of insulting statement that you made with impunity.

[jpgray]

77. Please read the thread

It is by no means biased against Nader. I asked a question, and I answered it. I stand by my original post, but now I know Nader has not been hiding out, which is good. Stop jumping down my throat and actually read what is in the thread.

[Terwilliger]

83. is someone jumping down your throat?

I'm glad you saw that he was speaking out. He gets into a lot of "trouble" over things he doesnt have control of.

[jpgray]

84. Just a few. Probably only read the opening post

I refuse to bash Nader for things he hasn't done, such as losing the 2000 election for Gore. And I will no longer say he hasn't spoken out because he has. I wish he spoke out more, but I won't hold it against him.

[leftofthedial]

85. he's been in an undisclosed location

getting his marching orders from Cheney and Rove