EF! & ELF

[Earth_First]

I don't believe I've seen this discussion before, I'd be curious to see what the DU viewpoints and opinions concerning these organizations/tactics.

More importantly, your views/opinions on being "terrorist" organizations...

[el_gato]

1. two different groups with different tactics

[Lefty48197]

2. My 2 cents:

I think there are some ecologists and animal rights activists whose tactics cross the line from productive protest to criminal vandalism. The criminal actions create a public backlash against the entire movement, even the parts of it that rely on entirely legal methods. I believe both of those groups you mentioned have been accused of the vandalism I spoke of. For instance, the destruction of SUV's in dealer parking lots has been attributed to one of those two groups, if I am not mistaken.
Those acts of vandalism help the right wingers stereotype those of us on the political left as lawless, reckless, and irresponsible.
There was a rodeo planned near my home about ten years ago, in the Ann Arbor area. An animal rights activist group (ALF?) decided it would be a good idea to open the corrals one night and "free" the animals. Soon, there was an accident on one of the nearby country roads, where a car hit at least one of the animals and killed it. It was a long time ago, so I don't remember if it was a horse or a bull, or whether there was just one animal killed, or more.

[el_gato]

3. LOL!

I can see your from the lay down and let them run over you school of politics.

I refuse to condemn people who are willing to lay it all on the line to do something other than wholly symbolic and pointless acts of protest.

[China_cat]

7. I think Isaac Asimov said it best

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent".

[Lefty48197]

9. Are you from the "Un-pen them and let the cows be hit by cars" school of

"environmentalism"? Rodeos don't kill cows, pick up trucks do.

[Big Kahuna]

4. Don't forget the Biotic Baking Brigade :)

If I did not have a family to provide for, I would be out vandalizing hummers, spiking trees and assaulting government officials with pastry.

[bobbyboucher]

5. I saw Elf, it was funny.

Will Ferrel was his beautiful, luny self.

[HEAVYHEART]

13. hahaaha!

:D

[MisterP]

6. I don't shed many tears over ConAgra's profit margin getting compromised

and if there were a terrorists' club, ELF'd never get past the velvet rope. Burning half-done ski lodges at 3 a.m.? Thwacking Hummers? I'm more worried about the hundreds of McVeighs Iraqnam is churning out.

[InvisibleBallots]

8. I don't believe these groups really exist anyway

I mean sure, there was an Earth First! at one time, but they haven't existed as a group for 15 years. If some random joe torches some agribusiness to scare them out of town, that's a crime - the crime of vandalism. Same when some kids breaks the window of an SUV, vandalism.

Vandalism is a crime. ConAgra is a criminal organization. I know where my priorities are.

[Vanje]

12. Yes. And if a sales lot full of over-ordered hummers gets ignighted,...

....thats old fashioned arson and insurance fraud.
I'd bet on it!

The REST of the burned Hummer story is that they never did find the perp/perps who had spray-painted "ELF" or some such thing at the crime scene.
The auto dealer had ordered a lot of Hummers which were not selling, what with the rising price of gas. Payment for the Hummers was due. The dealer was over-extended, about to get them repoed, when suddenly...Tragedy! The cars get vandalized and the dealer gets the big insurance payment heneeds to get out of a financial bind.

ELF? My ass.

[petronius]

14. Actually, if you mean the West Covina arson,

one guy (who admitted the spraypainting) was just convicted and the actual fire-bomber is known.

[Piperay]

10. I used to belong to LA Earth First!

but some years back they had a power struggle and the group split a couple of ways and eventually ceased to exist. At this point in time it is probably just as well because they were always being infiltrated by Freddie's and this was back in the late 80's. x( I can only imagine what would be happening now with the Patriot Act going on. :eyes: I know I wouldn't want to even attend a meeting. :scared:

[yardwork]

11. Nonviolence has always produced the most effective change

Look at Jesus. Nonviolence, turn the other cheek, two millenia later he's still trucking. Of course a lot of his so-called followers are having a real problem living up to the nonviolence part.

MLK, Jr. Compare his legacy to that of Malcolm X. Most people prefer the nonviolent guy.

Ghandi. Big name. Nonviolence. Nehru - too violent. No where near the positive pr Ghandi.

It's slow, it seems wimpy, but it wins in the long run. Nonviolence.

P.S. I agree with the posters above who say that they think most of these events are NOT eco-terrorists or any organized group. They are random acts of crime and vandalism, conveniently blamed on "them thar lib'ral anti-Murken socialist anarchists!"