How to secede without really trying.

[benburch]

You know, it occurs to me that we could deny oxygen to the republican party if we became separatists and developed our own currency or barter system and refused to deal at all with Conservatives. We could throw parts of their economy into chaos.

My inspiration for this is the NYC restaurant which recently refused service to the Bush twins.

Comments?

[wtmusic]

1. No ideas, I just liked the title

:thumbsup:

[serryjw]

2. A DUer has to start a ........

EBAY for ONLY dems........We acn't have our own currency against Federal law,

[benburch]

7. Actually, a private currency is not illegal.

That's what Traveler's Checks are. That's what a coupon in the newspaper is.

[serryjw]

9. Sorry OUR definitions are

different......AMEX TC are NOT a currency either is Your Visa CC. They are REDEEMED based on the (value) american dollar. Thats like saying my BUS coins are a currency...they are not.

If we had DUer dollars what would they be based on? Yes, I know that OUR dollar is not on the gold standard, but it is backed by the US gov't...what would ours we based on?

[benburch]

14. The would represent a unit of labor, perhaps...

Or some tiny fraction of a piece of US currency. "Cash value 1/40 of one cent."

[jwirr]

11. Since I am a life long democrat and I sell on

ebay because it has a HUGE outreach and no other auction site comes even near to the potential number of customers, I think I would be against this. Also while it is run by a repug it is still an alternative style of economic trade that allows little people like me to take part.

[serryjw]

13. Hay, 50 Million

dems is not enough of an audience for you?

[jwirr]

30. It would be if they all had a site I could sell on.

[ObaMania]

32. eBaY is run by a repuke?

Thanks for the info. Cancelling my membership poste haste!

[jwirr]

44. The woman who heads it is a bushie

supporter. But I will remind you that this site is made up of millions of small independent dealers, many who are poor and cannot make money any other way. We are democrats - you are hurting us. But that is okay the poor get screwed anyhow. IF you have a site that is run by a Democrat that all of you will patronize I will gladly move to that site. Until then I want to sell my junk and make enough money so I can eat.

[dubyaD40web]

20. There is no law against having your own currency, as long as you don't...

...try to pass it off as official U.S. currency (i.e. counterfeit). Trading in chickens is legal - in which case "chickens" is currency. As long as the value of the currency, whether pieces of paper or chickens, is agreed upon by all parties to a transaction, you can use whatever the hell you want. If we could get enough people to consider "Chicklets" as currency, we could start a "Chicklet Economy." It's a great idea, but extraordinarily difficult to implement on a large scale. There are small pockets of America where groups of people have forged their own currency and use it when trading among themselves, but you'd be very hard pressed to trade internationally with any currency not recognized and backed up by a recognized government.

[Javaman]

33. Club Med and beads!!! :)

[The Zanti Regent]

3. Here's a web page discussing California Secession!

http://moveoncalifornia.org/index.html

[gorbal]

5. Here are some other interesting ideas

http://www.timbuk3.com/combat.htm

http://hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44895&page=1&pp=10

[gorbal]

6. Here are some other interesting ideas

http://www.timbuk3.com/combat.htm

http://hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44895&page=1&pp=10

[Jim Warren]

21. Thanks

Appreciate the links (especially links contained there-in). I've been
BTW, hopefully been said, but Welcome to DU.

[Lars39]

4. The Campaign to Starve the Beast has been started!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2600099

[Zorra]

8. The title of this thread is great! DU Economic Activism Forum:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=255

Please, post your idea in this new forum.

[gorbal]

12. I can't post there, I am currently to poor to be a donor:(

I can't post there, I am to poor to be a donor. I will be able to afford it in a couple of months, but it is sad to me that some people are excluded from participating in part of the DU.

[ObaMania]

31. If you have a credit card and a Paypal account..

.. 10 bucks ain't nothin' but a thang! :nopity:

[Maven]

10. HAH, I love my town.

BTW, the restaurant is Freemans, on Freeman Alley & Rivington, if any fellow NYers want to show their support. :evilgrin:

You know, it's so funny how these douchebags spend their lives demonizing blue cities like NY and now all of a sudden their daughters think they can breeze into town and live it up. Wait, shouldn't they be at home like good Christian girls, sturrdyin' the bah-ble?

[Pepperbelly]

15. The whole secesion thing was tried and did not work out for anyone. nt

[KnowerOfLogic]

18. Jeezus Christ, i think people tried to build cars and airplanes

and such and they failed at first, but eventually they succeeded. Perhaps things could be done a little differently this time. You know what the real lesson of the past is? The Confederate states will continue to be a millstone around the neck of the blue states for *centuries* into the future; no matter what we do. It's like a marriage that has reached the point where people must be rational and realize that it is time to part ways.

[Pepperbelly]

19. The question was settled decisivley and ...

to advocate a repeat of the experience is insane.

[UNIXcock]

22. You're correct, the idea is nuts. Besides, how do you ...

... ID the "mark of the beast". Are you willing to accept implants or tattooed bar codes to seperate yourself from your republican voter next door? :freak: :crazy:

[Pepperbelly]

23. huh?

:wtf:

[UNIXcock]

24. secession - how do you do that when both parties live in the neighborhood?

How is one assured they're only trading (commerce) with their side

[KnowerOfLogic]

37. We already have reds and blues living together; either the

minority group lives with the opposition government, or they move somewhere more to their liking. And if the blue states did secede, that wouldn't mean that all commerce or association between the two nations would cease.

[Pepperbelly]

43. actually, this sort of bullshit thread is nothing more than a way to make

us at DU look bad.

But whatever.

[KnowerOfLogic]

36. And 2004 decisively settled the question about which party America

prefers; guess we don't need any more elections. Dems just just accept the judgement of the American people and disappear. I repeat, just because something failed once, does not mean that a different version of it might not succeed in the future. And secession doesn't necessarily mean war.

[KnowerOfLogic]

16. It is definitely time to look at secession, and i think that you

may be on to something in that i think the blue states should just separate from the US gradually and make their sovereignty a fait-accomplie at some point.

[neebob]

17. Most people are just too materialistic and selfish

to go along with something like that, plus it would create more misery and chaos. Can you say, "self-defeating behavior"?

Yesterday I watched this movie called A Day Without a Mexican that tried to show what would happen if all the Hispanic people suddenly disappeared from California, but the larger point was that everything and everyone is interdependent.

The answer, I think, is for the wingnuts to realize that everyone needs to live together and no one is better than anyone else and it's really not OK to open up a can of whupass on the rest of the world. Unfortunately, I'm afraid it's going to take a friggin' apocalypse to drive those points home, and even then they won't believe the apocalypse was of their own making.

[bloom]

26. I think it is more that people want to be part of a group

and get brainwashed into thinking that to fit in they have to have XYZ, blah, blah, blah.

Not buying just needs to be seen as the "the cool thing" and I think people would do it (not all people, of course - but a good many).

[Guaranteed]

25. That is an EXCELLENT idea- our own currency.

That's unbelievable brutal. I love it.

[Sleepless In NY]

27. Looking at the California Move on Site, very interesting

They are getting a huge response. This could really be catching on.
http://moveoncalifornia.org/index.html

[Guaranteed]

29. FREAKING AWESOME. EVERYONE PLEASE LOOK AT THIS. NT

[Sleepless In NY]

39. BullGooseLoony Isn't it? LOL..Economic parity

Alot of these groups are forming. People are questioning why we carry the heaviest tax burden and yet are so looked down upon by the "moralists" If secession isnt the answer, some type of economic parity should be. Anyway lots of intersting discusssions going on there!

[m berst]

28. "blue and red states" is false and misleading

The idea of blue and red states is part of the divisive propaganda from the right wing that has turned election campaigning into an imitation of a football game, political discourse into the verbal equivalent of a mud wrestling match, and the expression of opinion into something akin to schoolyard bullying and taunting.

Every state contains blue and red counties, and every county contains blue and red neighborhoods and every neighborhood contains blue and red families and every family contains blue and red humans.

No radical re-alignment of borders and nationalities that would be required by secession is likely to happen without conflict and violence.

To call for secession is to call for an increased the risk of escalating violence and conflict in every neighborhood and household in the country IMHO.

The enemy - the enemy of all of the people - is the gang of thugs who have seized control of the Republican party and the government, not our neighbors, co-workers, and family members.

[Sleepless In NY]

38. m berst they are designated red or blue for a reason

Thats for the Electoral College. The majority of voters in states designate who thier electoral votes go too. The heavier the vote for one candidate or the other decides the color. Wish it wasn't so, but that's the way it goes. Majority rules.

As for secession, I think it's good to talk about. It's just not Blue Staters that are frustrated, but Blue Voters in Red States. While not seceeding totally, I think that some of the tax burden should be shared equally. This might wake up some Red Voters, where trying to appeal to them just isn't working. There are alot of misconceptions about the Blue States & that has to be cleared up too.

After all states like Florida & Texas arent exactly poor, and I see no reason why they shouldn't be held up to the same standard, when it comes to give aways, that Blue States have to endure.

[m berst]

42. of course

I am quite familiar with the electoral college. I assumed that it was such common knowledge that it didn't bear mentioning.

My point was how and where would you divide the country up?

The tax burden has been steadily shifted downward, on reds and blues alike. To pit reds against blues on this issue just increases divisiveness IMHO. Divisiveness helps the tyrants consolidate power.

[gordianot]

34. If Democrats start their own currency who would be on the Bills.

Let's see $1.00 bill Jackson. OK lets keep rolling. N/T

[benburch]

35. No, only dead people are eligable...

Martin Luther King on a new coin would be great...

[DrGonzoLives]

40. News flash

Blue states are completely blue. Take Illinois - solid red, until you get to this weird place called Chicago, which just happens to have enough votes to outdo the rest of the state. Similar with San Francisco and Los Angeles in California.

Sorry, but this blue vs. red state horseshit is just that, horseshit.

[benburch]

41. Ummm...

Did I say "blue state" anywhere?

What I am proposing is not geographical in nature.

[KnowerOfLogic]

47. In a winner take all political system it is not horsesh*t.

It is the difference between enlightened liberal government, and primitive, war-mongering theocracy.

[info being]

45. Here's one way to do that

Have patience with part 1 and then move on to part 2 for the proposal: http://anotherdreamer.typepad.com/another_dreamer/2004/08/an_alternate_sy.html

[sniffa]

46. i missed the story on the twins

can someone update me? gracias.

[benburch]

48. Here's the link.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/19/133255/05

[sniffa]

49. thanks for the Link

8)

[RedCloud]

50. Repugs have boycotted

They got Politically Incorrect bumped to HBO after pressuring Sears.

Now I boycott Sears because those "morans" told me they received more than 1,000,000 complaints in a few hours. What crap.Tthey do not even have enough operators or time to handle that volume...

So I say strategically target one of the big repug corpses to teach 'em all a lesson. Then the next, etc. It would be fun.

Why should we pay extra during election times so those jerks can steal by bilking us and donate their theft of our money to the wrong causes?

[mmonk]

51. Just buy and trade in Euros

Should make the point.