My answer to freeper e-mail....

[Branjor]

I received the following e-mail from a freeper friend:

It is said that 86% of Americans believe
in God. Therefore I have a very hard time understanding why
there is such a mess about havi ng "In God We Trust" on our
money and having God in the Pledge of Allegiance. Why don't
we just tell the 14% to Sit Down and BE QUIET!!!

This was my reply to it:

Do you realize that "under God" was not a part of the Pledge of Allegiance until 1954? Before that, nobody said it. It was added to the pledge in the repressive 1950s era of the thoroughly discredited Senator Joseph McCarthy, the guy who instigated witchhunts throughout society, labeling all those whom he didn't like and didn't agree with "communists". Many innocent people lost their jobs and had their lives ruined in that era. Like it or not, separation of church and state is a very important constitutional principle, set forth by the founding fathers at the very inception of this society for a reason. I personally have no problem with the "In God We Trust" on money ("In money we trust" would be more accurate, though), maybe because it has been around all my life.

The Pledge, without "under God" would go as follows:
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America
And to the republic for which it stands
One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

I see nothing wrong with that. Why does the right wing have such a problem with it? Because they hate the principle of separation of church and state and want to force their religion down everybody's throat. They are the most unAmerican of all. We are supposed to have freedom of religion, not a theocracy.

As for the minority, the 14% mentioned above (not sure if that statistic is right or not) "sitting down and being quiet", NO WAY. I am an American and have feedom of speech just as much as the next guy. If the next guy doesn't like it, too bad. It is a basic tenet of democracy that everybody gets to have their say, "minority" or not. Telling those with other viewpoints to "sit down and be quiet" is about as democratic as the old Soviet Russia was.
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Can anyone think of any good points that I left out? I want to make these replies as good as I can.

Thanks.

[IrateCitizen]

1. The original pledge was written by a Baptist minister

Francis Bellamy. He was also a Christian socialist.

The words "... to the flag of the United States of America..." weren't added until the 1930's, I believe. Before that, it was "... to my flag..." Bellamy was alive at the time of the change, and did not like it. He was dead by the time the words "under God" were added, but his daughter said at the time he would have been undoubtedly against it.

Your friend thinks that the 14% should sit down and BE QUIET. They do not have to, nor should they, do any such thing. There is, after all, a thing called the FIRST AMENDMENT and FREEDOM OF SPEECH, and that is enshrined in a little document with some importance in our country called the CONSTITUTION.

[Branjor]

3. Thanks, Irate Citizen...

Good info! :)

[gratuitous]

2. Sit down and be quiet?

So, which God are we talking about? The God of Moses? Of Abraham? Of Jesus? Of Mohammed? Of Joseph Smith? Of Sun Myung Moon? To say that "it is said that 86% of Americans believe in God" is next to meaningless without any context. And what is your source for this dubious bit of meaninglessness?

Sweeping aside these rather basic and pertinent questions, let's move on: If the alleged 14% who don't believe in God are to sit down and be quiet, then are they allowed no say or participation in the way our society is run and governed? Then they should surely be tax exempt, because as another well-known phrase has it, taxation without representation is tyranny. You aren't a tyrant, are you? You don't truly feel that anyone who disagrees with prevailing conventional wisdom should be assigned second class citizen status, do you?

Because we would have to assign second class citizen status to a lot of people who looked at the status quo and found it wanting: Folks like Desmond Tutu and Nelson Mandela of South Africa; Mohandas Gandhi of India; Martin Luther King and Dorothy Day of the United States; Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton of the British colonies; Martin Luther of Germany; and Jesus of Nazareth and Saul of Tarsus in the Roman Empire. Is that what you're saying?

[Branjor]

4. Excellen points, gratuitous....

Thank you!

[LynzM]

10. Wow...

Do you write for someplace? Because you should! :)

[classof56]

5. You did good!

I clearly recall saying the pledge of allegiance every morning in school (starting in 1944) without the "under God". By 1954 I was in high school and I think the pledge wasn't a part of the daily routine. Not sure just what difference adding that phrase has made to our country's health and welfare (Korea, Viet Nam, Gulf I, current "war", others, internal strife, crime, etc., etc.,) seem to have happened in spite of changing the pledge to reflect we're "under God". Of course, who knows what awful things might have befallen us without it? Just kidding...sorta! The problem with the RWers who want God in everything is that it has to be their particular concept and definition of God. They insist on shoving their beliefs down everyone's throat and have no use for other beliefs and points of view. They don't get our concept of democracy, not to mention they don't get "separation of church and state". But of course they want it to be their church that's institutionalized...it just goes on and on. You said it very well! Hope it at least makes the freepers stop and think, but for some reason I doubt it will. We hafta try, though!

Tired Old Cynic

[GreenPartyVoter]

6. Which God? They always assume people all hold Christian beliefs

when that just ain't true.

-----------------------------------------
Would Jesus love a liberal? You bet!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/

[Norquist Nemesis]

7. 80% of Americans believe there are extra-terrestrials

that the government is hiding from us. I guess that means we should put a UFO flying into each of the presidents' ears on our money too! ;)

[KurtNYC]

8. 86 versus 14?

It is beyond a stretch to say that everyone who "belives in God" wants certain phrases printed on money. Equally false is the assumption that only those who don't belive in God would not want it on there.

People on the Right are fond of thinking that the Government screws up everything it gets involved with. Why should government sponsored churches be exempt from this idea? If we can privatize Social Security, we can sure privatize churches.

And btw, Church attendance in the US is around 44%. More here:
http://www.nationmaster.com/country/us/Religion

[Branjor]

11. More great points!

Thanks, Classof 56, Green Party Voter, liburl, Kurt NYC! :hi:

Liburl, LOL! Good one!

[MARALE]

9. I believe in God

But I don't believe that Under God should be in the Pledge. I also do not want Prayer in schools. If I want to teach about God, I want it done in my own way and how I think that God would want me to. Many people have different ideas about God that I don't think are correct. I also don't like prayers being taught to my children to be repeated over and over without thought to them. That is why I am against the Under God in the pledge. It treats God like an idol, a thing; not something to have a personal relationship with. Many people I know agree with me on this.

[Branjor]

13. MARALE

I hear you. The right's concept of God and religion is so shallow.

[Squeech]

12. The tricky part

is what comes *after* "under God."

Indivisible? We've recently seen examples of wingers advocating the forcible expulsion of Americans who disagree with them-- culminating in one guy advocating kicking all the blue states out of the union (excepting Oregon and Washington).

With liberty and justice for all? The Repukes have been defunding public defenders for decades, now they want "tort reform" as a way to make sure individuals have no legal defense against malfeasance by the rich and powerful...

[sybylla]

14. If non-believing/doubting was a religion

it would be bigger then all the current denominations except Catholicism. So, in effect, unless your nutjob friend is a Catholic, perhaps it is he who ought to sit down and let the Catholics run the country.

[Branjor]

15. Yes....

I don't know what religion she is but this area is mostly Roman Catholic.

[Ducks In A Row]

16. On the things that made our country strong was the respect...

given to the minority view.

As that respect is eroded, so our country is eroded.

Thank your friend for helping destroy our country.

[WolverineDG]

17. i got that one too

twice.

from the same person.

in the same week.

::grr::

so i sent her a nice response about how the bill of rights protects everyone, we shouldn't force religion on people, yadda yadda.....

her response? well, let's just say i think her head exploded because i got back the most hate-filled email i have ever received....so i responded to that one....wow, you're a much better christian than i am...

haven't heard from her since....there is a god....

dg

[immoderate]

18. Ask what "In God We Trust" means.

I've never heard a relevant or even coherent explanation.

--IMM