Homosexuality to be made illegal . . .

[OneBlueSky]

I want to make sure EVERYONE sees this . . . because it scares the shit out of me . . . we need Kerry to withdraw his concession and fight these bastards NOW! . . .

http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a1180.htm#001

November 7, 2004: “Many manifestations of pathological glee here in the Monkey Palace these days. We learn that Bush has cut down on his medication because he is euphoric over the election. He claims, and has done so in my presence, that God had given him a complete mandate(51 percent and a lot of that outright stolen by the Rove people) to change the political and moral face of America! Rove is behind all of this, telling everyone that God did indeed demand a complete restructuring of the grossly immoral American lifestyle. Homosexuality is to be made illegal (a new Federal law suggested by Delay and firmly endorsed by Rove) a form of Creationism to be taught in all schools, a modified draft, (mostly of technicians_, military action against Iran and Syria, a strong message sent to both North Korea, the PRC and Russia to keep out of American business or suffer “serious consequences,” utter destruction of Iraqi cities that harbor any terrorists, regardless of the civilian casualties (‘Nits make lice,” as Rove told me when I mentioned the possibility of large casualties, to include women and children) US to get political control over the Ukraine and other Russian or former Russian areas, the securing of oil areas in Iran and the subsequent cutting off of exports to China and Japan with all oil being shipped either to the US or England. France, Germany and several other countries to be “starved of oil” for their lack of support for Bush, a board to be set up to control “vile and degrading pornography” in the films coming out of Hollywood and “encouragement” to produce more Mel Gibson-style religious films, the prohibition of any American citizen to make any investments or bank deposits outside the United States and the sequestering of any such funds in countries under treaty with us, resurrection of the old sedition laws to prevent any more criticism of government or what is amounting to the state religion, the overturn of Rove v. Wade and a host of environmental acts that Bush’s business friends claim are restricting their businesses, a strong encouragement to permit open and free immigration by Mexicans (already 13 million here as of two weeks ago) so they can supply American business cheap labor and replace some of the grunt jobs that even India won’t perform, laws to permit off shoring American jobs by business friends to improve their profit margins, investigation of legal possibilities to permit Bush to run again (i.e., lifting the two-term mandate) and the calculated marginalization of the Democrat party and a planned strategy to oust Democrats as state governors. Another planned assault on Democrats in Congress is being worked up even as I write. Rove has told me, and others, that this is to be a one-party state and if he achieves this, it will be his “crowning glory.” This ought to be enough for now. Am sending off the list of patrons of the male whore house and hope you have the guts to publish them. And I ought to tell you that sainted Fat Karl has some very bad things in his own background. Always suspect a man who accuses everyone of sexual deviancy and proclaims themselves to be a paragon of virtue. More on this really ugly subject later when I am able to make Xeroxes of the relevant files ”.

[freetobegay]

1. We will be the first to go.

Where do you all fall in the pecking order?

[Huckebein the Raven]

50. Well since I'm black, we're next

[knight_of_the_star]

58. No, you're safer

Doing that would look too racist. He'll go after religious minorities next, that will be easier for him to do than go after ethnic ones.

[Lone Pawn]

2. While Rove does scare me...

This seems slightly hard to believe. Not that I'd put it past these guys or anything, but these charges seem slightly wild-eyed. Before I join you in panic, I'd really like to see some documentation.

[freetobegay]

7. 11 plus States is not enough proof already?

[Lone Pawn]

11. Gay marriage bans,

while deeply offensive, are unfortunately democracy in action. Putting crap like that up in front of an uninformed electorate is very different from outright fascism. Rove's an evil man, to be sure, but he isn't so ham-fisted as your post suggests.

If we're to beat him, it won't be by spinning worst-case scenarios and telling people about them. While it may be true, people don't listen. We need to turn people away from Rove be making us look like the moral guys. And they have to believe that *we're* more moral before they'll even consider the possibility that Bushco is extremely immoral.

[freetobegay]

13. It always has to start someplace.

[Lone Pawn]

18. I don't doubt that it *could* happen. I'm just not so certain it will

[noiretextatique]

17. not really...bush, inc is immoral

to anyone who has any morals. morals aren't really the issue here. the issue is why good, moral people support an immoral regime, and the answer, i'm afraid, lies in their own souls. as much as some people whine and malign kerry, just take a look at their candidate. as i told a republican the other night, i could see if your candidate was...well, we can start with literate...but c'mon: who in the hell really believes george bush is anything other than what he appears to be: a mean-spirited little sociopath with shit for brains? by definition, one would have to be delusional to see any other than that...the truth.
that people see themselves in this man, and identify with him...that is truly a pathetic commentary on how they view themselves.

these folks need to wake up on their own...no amount of proving how moral you are is going to awaken them. our side needs to write them off and focus on getting the majority of people in this country: non-voters.

[Lone Pawn]

22. They own morals. We need to take them back.

Honestly, many, many people think Bush is the moral one. And we can scream all we want about how immoral he is, but they won't care. Facts? People can't be bothered to remember that. We need to paint ourselves as being moral, and only paint them as being immoral by contrast. This election, Rove didn't throw facts at the dems. He threw charged phrases and emotional appeals. And we countered by and large with facts. Our campaign message was incoherant to most Americans. They heard "Bushisabadpresidentbecauseofthisandthatwehaveaplanhemademistakeswe'llfixthemvoteforus." From Bush, they heard, "I'm a strong leader, and a nice guy." While Bush's abysmal record nearly won it for us, it wasn't quite enough. Their fraud helped, but look at the values-voters. We can win them back. We just need to properly suggest to them that we have the same values they do. It's how the Right won them. We can win them back.

[noiretextatique]

24. right...the morals of baby-killing, gay-loving, terrorist-coddling

"liberuls?"
the rw has been working on these folks for a number of decades.
several people have posted stories of their own conversions here...almost all of them came about because of some personal revelation, not because of a political party or leader.
IF bush, inc goes down in disgrace, perhaps that will make a difference, but i'm not so sure it made such a difference with nixon...or raygun. raygun presided over 2 of the most corrupt administrations ever (until bush 43), and he's considered an icon and a hero.
what will win these folks over: hard times courtesy of their "moral" leaders. and unfortunately, if bush, inc wins again, they may be feeling some more pain.

[Lone Pawn]

26. That's the point.

They believe Bush is moral because Bush and the Bush allies (who they do not see being connected to Bush) talk only about how moral Bush is. Once they accept that as truth, facts don't matter. The trash-talk only comes once they've accepted their world view.

If Bush goes down in disgrace they'll think it was a Librul Conspiracy. Won't help. We need to not bring facts, but bring frames. Don't make charged attacks so much as formulate charged phrases. We have Christ's words on our side. And though we won't get the hardcore Republicans any time in the next generation, unless we start working to undo the damage immediately, we'll only lose more Real Americans to the right.

[noiretextatique]

32. i seriously doubt that

i was talking to a friend tonight who thinks like you...i am glad you both are such optimists. personally, i think these folks are a lost cause. and honestly, bush is doing more to turn folks our way than we ever could. that plus increasing democratic registration...that's how we won this election :D
i am glad you and my friend are on the team, and i applaud your efforts to awaken the braindead. and i truly hope you are right and i am wrong.
peace...and good luck.

[FizzFuzz]

51. RW owns the media, they cornered the market on morality

its a sham but they own the media and its the media that creates the message. The media creates its own reality and TV, by discouraging critical thinking, is the perfect stage for unscrupulous propagandists. Shit, TV was MADE as an advertising inoculation device. Advertising's whole raison d'etre is to circumvent truth and fact. So after decades of that kind of indoctrination, people are happily willing to suck down superficial swill, in 30 sec soundbites. And the CONservatives own all of it.

I agree that the public inability to see this POS for what he (and all of em) really is is a pathetic comment, but without exposure to facts, people have no way to make good judgements except to follow atavistic urges and "gut feelings". The RW media, perhaps well taught by TV evangelism, trades on this. Now that none of the news outlets put truth before the will of the corporation, we need a way to get the truth out, and not in myriad web blogs which are good but aren't touching the oceans of people who would do better if they knew the truth.

We need to buy some media. If we can get our message out, if we can expose the lies on a mass media scale, you bet we'd see some change.

[noiretextatique]

55. as some have been saying, WE need to Be the media

i used to do a weekly poetry internet column that i sent to family and friends...about 200 folks when i got tired of it. i am starting that up again, but this time i'll be talking about the election, the media, the neocons, and perhaps throw in a few poems to make it all go down more smoothly :D i was just telling a friend last night that we cannot underestimate the small things we do.

[FizzFuzz]

56. I'll contribute some of my social analysis

intellectual cosmic debris, OK? lol :D

What I wish is for our side (objectively known as "The Truth") would get out on the airwaves that Mr and Mrs Heartland watch. Or Mr and Mrs Christian. I live in NY state, and even in a blue state there are plenty of fundies and even christians who are not totally over the edge, glaze eyed evangevilists, who think the Prince of Lies is a good guy, and they know because they watch TV. Its the TV watchers that are drinking the kool-aid. Look how eveyone here has a posting frenzy when someone, anyone, broadcasts a snip of truth on mainstream TV. We KNOW its the only way to really get our message out.

[noiretextatique]

57. after i'm done spewing

i'm sure i will need a break...as will my readers :)
i know what you mean...like BEFORE the fairness doctrine got axed. it wasn't perfect by any means, but it was nothing like this...no FOX NEWS will complete license to lie. no coulters and other lunatics given free reign to spew their hateful garbage. i remember a geraldo from years ago that had white supremacists and some black men from, the urban league i believe. it was all fine at first, but then the white supremacists said something, and all hell broke loose. that's what USED TO happened to people who talked crazy on TV...they got their asses kicked. ah...the good old days. i'll be in touch for your contribution of intellectual cosmic debris :hi:

btw, about election night. the thai was delicious, but no karoake at the bar...uh oh! i was ranting and raving like a lunatic...and at one point, i asked the bartender to change the channel from NBC, which was was practically calling the race for * one hour after the polls closed here in california (?), to CBS...and there was Dan Rather saying: We here at CBS are not yet willing to call Ohio for Mr. Bush. :loveya: Dan Rather...one of the few non-whores on network TV. anyway...it was a sad night...you could hear a pin drop in there. people wre just heartbroken...and none more so than yours truly :cry:

[FizzFuzz]

59. let us all say a heartfelt, "Thank you Ronnie"

:BARF:
Read Neil Postman's "Amusing Ourselves to Death" You will love it.
Or, you will jump out a window. Its that good. Its kind of old, but damn if he didn't predict and describe the brain rot that comes from being a TV based society. (He describes the decline from reading society in the 18-19th centuries to the changover in the 20th century)

Ugg it must have been awful watching the election get stolen at a bar on their TV. I watched for a short time, but then couldn't bear it any longer and hung out here at DU. Then finally went to bed. Mr Fuzz watched and told me he how arrogant the Liar looked. I didn't watch any of the speeches...I cant even go near a TV now...never watched much before, but no way am I gonna look at those mononodes spinning the truth, crowing about mandates...my god, don't they even see? Oh yes a special circle in hell........

Its been up and down since...I have moments of feeling down as hell, moments of feeling gung ho, keep fighting.

I'm really wondering what to do about our savings. Hmmmm....

:hug: have a good night!!

[Voltaire]

53. Better wise up about Rove

He is evil incarnate and proud of it. Ask around.

[AndyTiedye]

36. We Have Seen This Agenda Elsewhere

It is totally believable.

[RaleighNCDUer]

48. You mean like the documentation for death camps that was so

widely available in the '30s?

The first documentation will come with the first round ups. How many thousands of couples have their names on legal, if invalidated, documents in SF, Mass., etc.? Makes them all the easier to find.

I wouldn't be surprised to find out the camps are being built as we speak.

[onebigbadwulf]

3. Yay! I hate freedom anyway. (nt)

[ethereal]

25. LOL!!

I'm sorry, but this is so totally absurd. Like, as in bringing-tears-to-my-eyes, this-is-like-a-Camus-play surreal. Do they think they can really get away with this?


I'm not making light of this situation, because I don't think these morons realize that gays can shoot guns, too and it's best not to rile a really pissed-off, in-your-face queen. It's beyond imagining that so many dumbasses are buying into it and voting these freaks into office without bothering to look closely at what they're endorsing.


I hear they're targeting people who eat pork rinds next. *That* should strike fear into the hearts of the ignorant.

[Cronus Protagonist]

4. mmmmm the camp dorms are going to be HOT HOT HOT!

Will this be like the White Party?

Show your support for the president, wear a FUCK BUSH button!

http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13
(We usually ship same or next day by first class mail)

[cosmicaug]

5. You don't seriously believe that?

You don't seriously believe that?

[alittlelark]

8. It is propaganda designed to scare. Be fearless and win.

[OneBlueSky]

27. I seriously believe that if they can find a way to do it, they will . . .

have you not been paying attention the past four years? . . . did you seriously believe they would attack a country that was no threat to the US, and make up reasons for doing it? . . . did you seriously believe that they would negate long-standing treaties on everything from nuclear testing to environmental protection? . . . did you seriously believe that they would out and out steal this election, just as they did in 2000 and 2002? . . .

yes, I seriously believe that this is what they'd like to accomplish . . . whether or not they actually can is another story . . . but they have 11 states outlawing gay marriage as pretty good evidence that the country would support such a measure . . . I don't believe it, but they do . . .

these people are fucking nuts . . . and they'll do whatever they can get away with . . . as has been proven over and over and over again . . .

[alittlelark]

6. When they came for _______, I did nothing

because I was not one of them



We are all wearing the blue dress now, and which group will be taken to the cleaners first?

[Erika]

19. Bushco bigots

See at
www.palmbeach.post.com/news/content/shared/news/politics/stories/11/04religion.html and www.buzzflash.com/contributors/04/11/con04485.html.

It appears also that the maps for the 2004 blue states vs red states, the return of tax $ paid in vs tax dollars received, and the map of states supporting slavery vs. non supporting have never changed over the years. Takers and abuser vs. freedom and givers.

[alittlelark]

20. Here in CA we are the MAJOR GIVERS!!

SECESSION NOW!!!!!

[gordianot]

9. I forget the source of the proverb.

When the truth sounds like a big lie no one will believe it.

Knowing this bunch it is possible.

[sonicx]

10. Just a year ago, sodomy was illegal in Taxas...

[freetobegay]

16. Florida Also!

[Tight_rope]

12. This will not stop Homosexuality...Folks will just go back to the closets!

[LisaL]

14. Or prisons.

[freetobegay]

15. I'll burn on a cross before I go back in!

You can take that to the bank!

[FM Arouet666]

21. We will all be in the closet

Our gay brothers and sisters are not the only ones that should fear. Atheists, non-christians, the educated, the pacifists, anyone who is non-white male and christian. We will all be in the closet, or worse, in the ovens. :grr:

[nolabels]

39. Some people take a moral stand

Even large majorities can bowed over and plowed under. The great hope one could be an indivdual in the great society was a selling point for the GOP back in early Reagan Era (man were they liars). Some caught on faster than others that it was just a ruse, but they still tried to peddle it none the less.

'Be fearfull' is the new sales tactic of the GOP. If I were a salesman I would be selling 'Be carefull of their fearful traps', I could make a mint putting out a product that had a fair amount of substance and some humorous gimmicks. Sort of like here

(glad this place if free, mostly)

[donheld]

37. Folks will NOT go back to the closets

Maybe cowards will, but the majority of us are out to stay.

[Cyrix]

41. Nazis...

If they DID do this do you have ANY idea how many GLBT people have their names on a list somewhere? Either for donating to a GLBT organization, being in an organization, being known by right wing neighbors (who like good germans would turn them in to asscrofts replacement), publicly wrote/spoke about being gay, the list goes on.

It would NOT be a simple "oh I'll just go back in the closet" situation.

[rockydem]

23. this is insane

It won't happen. This 'source' is highly suspect. This election is driving some people near-insane.

[OneBlueSky]

28. the source may be suspect . . . but do you actually believe . . .

that the agenda outlined in this article isn't precisely what these bastards would like to accomplish in the next four years? . . . if you do, you haven't been paying attention . . . I certainly don't believe that they'll be able to accomplish all of it, but I do believe that the intent is there . . .

[rockydem]

30. They're not going to try and outlaw homosexuality

They would flame out if they even tried, which they wouldn't. They are going to push a right wing agenda, but in order to stop them we have to pull ourselves together and not get carried away. Focus on the real threats. They may try to push through that Amendment to ban gay marriage. Focus on that. That's the real threat.

[OneBlueSky]

35. see DUer Jeane Louise Finch's post (#29), below . . . n/t

.

[Cyrix]

42. Ummm

Just a year ago this WAS the case. Or did the supreme courts ruling on the texas sodomy law just fly by you? Since being gay illegal just a year ago I don't see how this is far fetched.

These people want to reverse everything the court has done. And I am sure this is no exception.

[Jean Louise Finch]

29. Scary stuff on Salon

Hi Guys,

I also thought this was sort of just crazy talk, a little scary, but nothing too much, but after reading this article on Salon: "Joyful and Triumphant", I'm way more afraid. The Supreme Court is in for a royally horrifying shake-up.

Some of the scariest excerpts:

Writing in the National Review on Wednesday, self-appointed culture czar William Bennett proclaimed, ...."Now is the time to begin our long, national cultural renewal -- no less in legislation than in federal court appointments. It is, after all, the main reason George W. Bush was reelected."
--
Religious right leaders say they want several things from this administration, including curbs on abortion rights, support for a constitutional ban on gay marriage, a change in IRS laws to allow churches to engage in partisan political activity, and increased Justice Department prosecution of pornography. The administration is already sending signals that it plans to comply.
--
Lawrence vs. Texas, which ruled that states can't jail gay people for having sex in their own homes, was decided 6-3, with both Scalia and Thomas dissenting. "With the change of a justice or two, Lawrence would be overturned and states would be allowed to criminalize sodomy," says Neas.
--
Scalia, for one, has made no secret of his belief that Americans aren't entitled to all the rights -- from sexual privacy to protections against arbitrary search and arrest -- they currently enjoy. Last year, the Associated Press quoted him saying, "Most of the rights that you enjoy go way beyond what the Constitution requires."

[ethereal]

31. Pride goeth before the fall

methinks they croweth too much.

[erniesam]

38. go read about the "Constitution Restoration Act of 2004"

This bill is still in committee. Also, keep in mind that the state of Georgia last week rescinded their hate crime laws. Also, go to
the Texas GOP website and download and read the Texas GOP platform adopted in July of this year.

[OneBlueSky]

34. and that's exactly how they'll do it . . .

by allowing states to outlaw homosexual activity . . . which is the equivilant of outlawing homosexuality . . . and, as this article states, it is quite do-able with a change of just one or two SCOTUS justices . . .

on edit: I can also envision attempts to ban books, movies, and other forms of communications that cast homosexuality in a positive light . . .

[GingerSnaps]

33. This is one of the main reasons NOT to put your name up on the Internet

I know that they can get your IP address but listing your name is not a good idea. You never know what they are going to do to people next. I would put up a firewall if you don't have one. Who's knows what they might put on our computers hard drive in order to start arresting people.

They are a real ugly bunch of mental fuckers and we all should be leery of them. I am afraid for all of us. :hug:

[Flammable Materials]

44. My name is already known.

I'm not going to cower in a corner. Anyone would have to be a fool to think that this government couldn't track down you down based on pseudonymous online postings.

Welcome to the New Red Menace, my friends.

[Cyrix]

40. Being gay was illegal only a year or so ago...

So it is VERY possibly they would do this.

(ok, sorry if it was a 1-3 years or so, I've lost track)

But this is VERY believable. Until the supreme court struck down the texas sodomy law being gay WAS illegal. Yes yes, it COULD apply to heterosexuals too, but anyone who didn't have their head in the sand knew it was aimed squarely at GLBT people.

I would not at all be surprised if they want to overrule the court on this like everything else.

[DavidFL]

43. I can see them going for all these things...

This is not the first time I've seen any of this. For instance, a foreign policy consisting of bellicosity with Russia, China and North Korea, invading Iran and Syria, the U.S. controlling most of the world's supply of oil, and who gets it, is all set out by the Project for the New American Century. Before the election, the neocons were rattling their sabers at Syria and Iran and were working their echochamber to portray Putin as a dictator in the old Soviet style. I really didn't think they would let something like an election get in their way.

This other stuff, like outlawing homosexuality, eliminating environmental protections, legislating religion -- specifically a perverse version of Christian doctrine -- into public schools and public institutions are all hallmarks of the Dominionist aka Christian Reconstructionist agenda. These are the people behind crackhead, like Paul Weyrich, Pat Roberson, Tim LaHaye, Jerry Falwell, the Ahmanson Family -- who also owns big stakes in the e-voting companies, etc. As soon as crackhead started talking about "values" and "morality" last week, I had a sinking feeling he would dedicate most of this term to implementing their agenda. Catherine Yurica wrote about it in a long, but very much worth reading, article here: http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm
If anyone had told me about this stuff two and a half years ago, I would have thought they were crazy. But after reading every article I could on the neocons and Dominionists, the neocons' white paper "Rebuilding America's Defenses," and then moving down here to Florida and seeing what's broadcast for the faithful on the "Christian" stations (yes, they do see Iraq as part of a larger "holy war," feel the Rapture is coming soon and Bush is acting as God's instrument on earth), it became rather obvious what's going on behind the scenes in this administration.

[erniesam]

52. fascist dictatorships always use religion to control the masses

[Gore1FL]

45. that this is to be a one-party state

funny all the money we wasted fighting the Soviets in the Cold war just to become them.

[WoodrowFan]

46. why are you quoting a neo-NAZI site

TBR is a neo-NAZI site. Go look at their book list, it's full of pro-Hitler books and Holocaust denial. Go peddle this crap to Stormfront.

[OneBlueSky]

49. because where else do you get an accurate picture . . .

of what BushCo really wants? . . .

[no_hypocrisy]

47. "First, they came for the Communists, and I said nothing because I wasn't

a Communist. Then they came for the Socialists, and I said nothing because I wasn't a Socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I said nothing because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then, they came for the Jews, and I said nothing because I wasn't a Jew. When they came for me, there was nobody left to speak up."

Martin Niemoeller, commenting on the "progression" of the Third Reich's ascension to power and control of Germany

[canadianbeaver]

54. will Mary Cheney be arrested?

:hi: What will Dicky boy and his wifey pooh do? Say goodbye to everything you hold dear...soon to be taken away. Scarey thought.
I have a couple of rooms available up here in canada, I accept people for who they are....Much Love to all the Blues!!!