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Kerry will NOT back the VOTE FRAUD issue

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Woody Box Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 04:42 AM
Original message
Kerry will NOT back the VOTE FRAUD issue

He is not interested in fighting.

From a salon.com blog:

The working class flocks to GOP

A losing cultural and religious battle, combined with too little talk of the economy and too much late-campaign focus on Iraq, is probably what doomed Sen. John Kerry's bid on Election Day. That was the thrust of the post-mortem this morning conducted by Democratic pollster Stan Greenberg, who worked for the Kerry/Edwards campaign. He spoke at the National Press Club. There were several intriguing highlights:


* In a startling turnaround among the electorate, the more educated voters were in 2004, the more often they voted Democratic, while the less educated (white) voters went strongly for Bush. Republicans are now the party of the working class.


* Greenberg says cultural issues, including faith, fueled the switch and that blue collar and older voters were ready to vote Democratic but in the end didn't feel comfortable enough with Kerry; they didn't see the "authenticity" they were looking for in a new leader.


* Specifically among the elderly, the pollster noted the 2004 campaign was not focused on Social Security like it was in 2000. ("Remember the 'lock box'?" asked Greenberg.) Consequently, seniors, like many, essentially fell back on cultural issues, as well as national security, in making their final decision.


* Similarly, there was a late rush to Bush among rural white voters; non-evangelicals with a traditional populist leaning.


* Working class voters were willing to consider a Democratic option, but when they didn't hear a compelling enough economic narrative from Kerry they let cultural issues drive their vote. "'Democrats need to have a bold economic narrative. Not just policies," said Greenberg.


* He noted two reasons for why the economic message may have been missing late in the Kerry campaign. The first is that throughout his career in Congress, foreign policy has traditionally been Kerry's strong suit and it was that expertise that showed through during the first debate and vaulted him back into contention. But Greenberg notes in the short window between the third debate and the election, Kerry was not able, or was unwilling, to make the economy the centerpiece of his campaign. Instead, Iraq loomed the largest, particularly the final week's story about missing explosives from an Iraqi weapons depot. Yes, it kept Bush on the defensive, said Greenberg, "but it also had the greater effect of John Kerry not getting heard on economic issues."


* "Democrats need to think about how faith and values build a greater affinity with voters," said Greenberg. "If Democrats are wise they'll go back to bible school," he said, somewhat in jest, pointing to the party's "grand tradition" of national figures who felt comfortable talking about God and even quoting scripture -- people like Martin Luther King, Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton.


* The leadership of the Catholic church hurt Kerry by refusing to give him communion for being on the wrong side of the church's abortion teachings. That controversy, and the fact some in the hierarchy did not approve of Kerry, meant he "wasn't viewed as similarly religious" among rural voters, which "made the cultural questions more difficult for Kerry."


* Bottom line: It was an election "about values and safety" instead of "Iraq and the economy." That, said Greenberg, meant Americas were asked to vote on "a world view versus performance."



-- Eric Boehlert
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regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 04:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. No connection between your title and content...
All you have is a Demo-hired pollster playing monday-morning quarterback and second-guessing everyone else in the campaign. Pretty typical, particularly from "experts" who are brought in and fail to bring victory -- in order to not lose future business, they have to point out how they themselves are not to blame, and it's all someone else's fault.

In truth, not a word about whether or not Kerry will contest the election. He probably won't even decide until he sees the Ohio provisional ballot count next Friday.
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 04:53 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. The whole piece sounded like
present Republican/Media talking points to make it look like Bush didn't steal the election, but Kerry lost it fair and square because of this and that and the other thing.
A buncha bull.
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ed_vadem Donating Member (388 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. Greenburg is a fairly well repsected guy amongst
Edited on Mon Nov-08-04 05:20 AM by ed_vadem
the DNC establishement. There has to be an explantion for the huge surge in the very rural vote for Bushco nationwide and some of the points he makes have some merit

I guess I have not abanded the DNC on this just yet

I told my DNC reps to send some money or lawyers to Ohio and dont leave until the provisonals are counted and audited

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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 04:50 AM
Response to Original message
2. What does your headline have to do with this? This has nothing
to do with Kerry not backing the vote fraud issue. This just seemslike an opinion peice on why Stan Greenberg thinks we lost.
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GingerSnaps Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 04:53 AM
Response to Original message
3. I think that your headline is to serve one purpose
To make us think that we need to give up on the stolen eletion.

It's never going to happen.
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Woody Box Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 05:40 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. No

I was one of the first who screamed VOTE FRAUD, right here on DU.

If you don't give up, that's great, and it makes me happy.

It's just I don't trust Kerry anymore, and I don't wait for him to make my judgement: VOTE FRAUD.

Don't be too disappointed when Kerry doesn't come up with the issue.

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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 05:43 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Your post is deceptive and says nothing about the issue of voter fraud
Edited on Mon Nov-08-04 05:53 AM by hlthe2b
So, how can we not assume your intent was to be deceptive with your fellow DUers?
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 05:40 AM
Response to Reply #3
14. Agree with you BushNeedstogo and I really resent it.
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JohnnyRingo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 05:01 AM
Response to Original message
5. This article assumes that working class voters are less intelligent
...While the "more educated" voters that voted for Kerry were obviously of the investor class.

My union and so many others that endorsed John Kerry indicates otherwise. The working class has not deserted the democratic party.

Less intelligent voters, however, may have fallen for the notion that this election was centered around phony moral issues as defined by Karl Rove.

I'm confident the average voter saw through that GWB's "agenda" leaves little for those that punch a time clock or wears a name tag at work.

This sounds like another plea for the democratic party to conform to right wing religious government.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 05:01 AM
Response to Original message
6. What is that article, Rove's Talking Points du Jour?
Where is the info about Kerry and fraud?
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 05:18 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Didn't he win an advertising endorsement recently?
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 05:03 AM
Response to Original message
7. Hahahaha!
If there's provable fraud, you can COUNT on Kerry backing it. Come back next week and see what you have to say then.

Show your support for the president, wear a FUCK BUSH button!

http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13
(We usually ship same or next day by first class mail)


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Robeson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 05:07 AM
Response to Original message
8. This message has been brought to you by the DLC..
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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 05:17 AM
Response to Original message
9. The timing of the missing weapons story was absolutely disastrous
I posted that opinion the very first night. Kerry was predictably getting nowhere bashing Bush, and desperately needed a positive final week with the economy as the central focus.
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 05:21 AM
Response to Original message
12. Typical American Myopia........
"Bottom line: It was an election "about values and safety" instead of "Iraq and the economy." That, said Greenberg, meant Americas were asked to vote on "a world view versus performance."

Values and safety versus performance. What the fuck are these values I keep hearing about? Apparently they include lying to the Nation about the reasons for going to war, the outing of CIA agents, emptying the Treasury to give sweetheart no bid contracts to your friends, shirking your responsibilities in the National Guard.....the list goes on and on. Some value system these people believe in, huh?

These people can take their cornpone values and shove them up their asses. It's the 21st Century for God's sake. Things are going to change, we left the 19th Century quite a while ago. Move on or get the hell out of the way. These people just don't want to change. They want to keep everything as it was in the Ozzie and Harriet days. The world has changed people, get with the program or go the way of the dinosaurs.

"A world view"? 90% of these idiots have no idea what's going on in the world. You see, Hannity and Limbaugh don't touch upon those subjects too much. They're too busy muckraking. All these people know is God, guns and gays. OOOOhh, scary, scary!

I'm so sick of hearing this "traditional value" bullshit I could scream. The world has changed and is ever changing, get over it. Ozzie and Harriet aren't coming back!
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DELUSIONAL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 05:43 AM
Response to Original message
15. This article is propaganda -- GOP talking points
Engineered by Rove. His finger prints are all over it.

It does not matter that this "journalist" is well respected. The US media is going to lay down and roll over.

However, most of us here at DU will not roll over on command for Rove.

By the way -- I agree your headline was misleading and frankly a whole lot of steaming bull shit.
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teryang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 05:48 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Exactly, extreme BS
Official interpretation of history according to the establishment pukes.
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LadyinRed Donating Member (56 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 05:57 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Bottom Line..... Money ,Greed and Power
The common working man, the so called Red States, Rural vs Urban, nor any Religious affiliation had anything to do with this:

The Buying of the President

Top Ten Donors to Bush During the Last Four Months and Their Connections to His Bundlers
Amount Organization Pioneers Rangers
$214,000 Pricewaterhouse Coopers-Partner Richard R. Kilgus (NEW YORK)
$126,300 Deloitte & Touche- LLP Partner Paul Maynard (NEW YORK)
$101,750 MBNA Corp. -CEO Charles M. Cawley and Senior Executive Vice Chair Lance Loring Weaver (DELAWARE)
$85,655 Ernst & Young - LLP Managing Director of Govt Relations Les Brorsen (NEW YORK)
$80,254 Merrill Lynch & Co. Inc.-CEO E. Stanley O'Neal (NEW YORK)
$78,947 Southern Co. -Executive Vice President Dwight H. Evans (GEORGIA)
$76,000 Goldman Sachs Group -CEO Henry M. Paulson Jr. (NEW YORK)
and Managing Partner George H. Walker IV Limited Partner Peter R. Coneway
$71,350 UBS AG Inc. UBS Wealth Management USA -CEO Joseph J. Grano (NEW YORK)
$64,325 Morgan Stanley Dean Witter & Co. -Managing Director William H. Strong
$59,850 United Services Automobile Association Group -CEO Robert G. Davis
List is based on contributions to Bush-Cheney '04 Inc. and Bush-Cheney '04 Compliance Committee Inc. during last four reported months through Jan. 31, 2004. The Pioneers and Rangers listed are based on names published by Texans for Public Justice
MOST OF THESE COMPANIES ARE GLOBAL OR INTERNATIONAL, BUT MOST OF THEIR US HEADQUARTERS ARE IN NEW YORK.

http://www.publicintegrity.org/bop2004/report.aspx?aid=220

Millionaires Raising Millions

http://www.publicintegrity.org/bop2004/report.aspx?aid=374

DON'T BELIEVE THE LIES..................




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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 06:03 AM
Response to Original message
19. subject does not match story...and it's RW talking points
locking
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