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Artemis Bunyon Donating Member (435 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 10:02 PM
Original message
Third stupid post in a row.
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SeveneightyWhoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. Uh..is this for real?
:wtf:
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kikiek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. Wow. I hadn't seen that before. Thanks that is something.
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izzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. Red and blue make purple
and the tones can be nice. It is like Black and white are dull but shades of gray are what the world is really made up as. I know Kerry lost and it is winner take all in this country but he did not come out in like the 25%.Dem are not dead and I wish they would stop that. Once we said that about the GOP and now they are where we were 25 years ago or when ever. This Dem party has held power in this country for many years. I also have not looked at the Houses in each state. How did they do? I am telling you it goes up and down. We maybe down now but one sides never wins for long.
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kikiek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. I agree. I am tired of the swan song talk. We in Mn ended up with
a Dem gain of at least 4 seats in our state reps (I quit reading the paper for a few days). I am hopeful we can work on getting our govenor out. Would like to see some planning with the Native Americans who I hope will be motivated to remove him. He is going to try and take a great portion of the gambling proceeds that the state has no right to in my opinion. I am looking already for a group to join to encourage this, and other issues with the Native Americans....Not to mention that just because a county went red doesn't mean people didn't vote for Kerry there! They are acting like if it is red everyone went for Bush. Some are evenly split almost.
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flygal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Right, even though some of the south went 60% to *...
There's 11% we need to win back. I have to have faith that we'll keep them in check in 06 with a win back of the house.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #14
22. Dems gained 13 (!) seats in the MN legislature!
:bounce:
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lizzieforkerry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
3. How did Ohio an dIndiana get sucked south?
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #3
18. The "Copperheads" are back in power across the river there I ...
guess! If Ohio had had those Electronic Vote Stealing Machines, that don't count any farther than Bush with his shoes off, I believe Ohio would have gone south in 1861!
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LisaLynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
4. All I can say for my home state then is:
Indiana: We might have gone Red, but at least we were against slavery!
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flowomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
5. so sad to have lost Indiana (for a long time) and Iowa (this time)
Edited on Sun Nov-07-04 10:06 PM by flowomo
and, of course, Ohio
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harpo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
6. amazing comparison, thanks!
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izzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
7. Did you see the map on Where is Read?
Now that was funny.
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Blaze Diem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
8. We haven't come very far at all.
This is amazing.Its a weird feeling when you compare the blue states now to the free states then..
Seccession is maybe something to consider in this case.

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PretzelWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
9. looks like I owe you an apology Artemis
for whatever reason....I'm not seeing whatever it is you are posting. My internet browser is set up to see images, etc. But I am not seeing anything in body of your posts save for your avatar.

Does that mean I'm a vampire?
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Artemis Bunyon Donating Member (435 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. The source site is adult in nature, so it might be blocked by your ISP.
Apology accepted.
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
10. Good post - I looked at the map of right to work states and the
fall out of the election and it too has similarities
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
12. That could make a nice t-shirt
very impressive.
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LadyinRed Donating Member (56 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. Repeating history?
African slavery is so much the outstanding feature of the South, in the unthinking view of it, that people often forget there had been slaves in all the old colonies. Slaves were auctioned openly in the Market House of Philadelphia; in the shadow of Congregational churches in Rhode Island; in Boston taverns and warehouses; and weekly, sometimes daily, in Merchant's Coffee House of New York. Such Northern heroes of the American Revolution as John Hancock and Benjamin Franklin bought, sold, and owned black people. The family of Abraham Lincoln himself, when it lived in Pennsylvania in colonial times, owned slaves.<1>

When the minutemen marched off to face the redcoats at Lexington in 1775, the wives, boys and old men they left behind in Framingham took up axes, clubs, and pitchforks and barred themselves in their homes because of a widespread, and widely credited, rumor that the local slaves planned to rise up and massacre the white inhabitants while the militia was away.<2>

African bondage in the colonies north of the Mason-Dixon Line has left a legacy in the economics of modern America and in the racial attitudes of the U.S. working class. Yet comparatively little is written about the 200-year history of Northern slavery. Robert Steinfeld's deservedly praised "The Invention of Free Labor" (1991) states, "By 1804 slavery had been abolished throughout New England," ignoring the 1800 census, which shows 1,488 slaves in New England. Recent archaeological discoveries of slave quarters or cemeteries in Philadelphia and New York City sometimes are written up in newspaper headlines as though they were exhibits of evidence in a case not yet settled (cf. “African Burial Ground Proves Northern Slavery,” The City Sun, Feb. 24, 1993).

I had written one book on Pennsylvania history and was starting a second before I learned that William Penn had been a slaveowner. The historian Joanne Pope Melish, who has written a perceptive book on race relations in ante-bellum New England, recalls how it was possible to read American history textbooks at the high school level and never know that there was such a thing as a slave north of the Mason-Dixon Line:

"In Connecticut in the 1950s, when I was growing up, the only slavery discussed in my history textbook was southern; New Englanders had marched south to end slavery. It was in Rhode Island, where I lived after 1964, that I first stumbled across an obscure reference to local slavery, but almost no one I asked knew anything about it. Members of the historical society did, but they assured me that slavery in Rhode Island had been brief and benign, involving only the best families, who behaved with genteel kindness. They pointed me in the direction of several antiquarian histories, which said about the same thing. Some of the people of color I met knew more."<3>
Slavery in the North never approached the numbers of the South. It was, numerically, a drop in the bucket compared to the South. But the South, comparatively, was itself a drop in the bucket of New World slavery. Roughly a million slaves were brought from Africa to the New World by the Spanish and Portuguese before the first handful reached Virginia. Some 500,000 slaves were brought to the United States (or the colonies it was built from) in the history of the slave trade, which is a mere fraction of the estimated 10 million Africans forced to the Americas during that period.
Every New World colony was, in some sense, a slave colony. French Canada, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Cuba, Brazil -- all of them made their start in an economic system built upon slavery based on race. In all of them, slavery enjoyed the service of the law and the sanction of religion. In all of them the master class had its moments of doubt, and the slaves plotted to escape or rebel.

Over time, slavery flourished in the Upper South and failed to do so in the North. But there were pockets of the North on the eve of the Revolution where slaves played key roles in the economic and social order: New York City and northern New Jersey, rural Pennsylvania, and the shipping towns of Connecticut and Rhode Island. Black populations in some places were much higher than they would be during the 19th century. More than 3,000 blacks lived in Rhode Island in 1748, amounting to 9.1 percent of the population; 4,600 blacks were in New Jersey in 1745, 7.5 percent of the population; and nearly 20,000 blacks lived in New York in 1771, 12.2 percent of the population.<4>

The North failed to develop large-scale agrarian slavery, such as later arose in the Deep South, but that had little to do with morality and much to do with climate and economy.

http://www.slavenorth.com/




Early 19th century New Englanders had real motives for forgetting their slave history, or, if they recalled it at all, for characterizing it as a brief period of mild servitude. This was partly a Puritan effort to absolve New England's ancestors of their guilt. The cleansing of history had a racist motive as well, denying blacks -- slave or free -- a legitimate place in New England history. But most importantly, the deliberate creation of a "mythology of a free New England" was a crucial event in the history of sectional conflict in America. The North, and New England in particular, sought to demonize the South through its institution of slavery; they did this in part by burying their own histories as slave-owners and slave-importers. At the same time, behind the potent rhetoric of Daniel Webster and others, they enshrined New England values as the essential ones of the Revolution, and the new nation. In so doing, they characterized Southern interests as purely sectional and selfish. In the rhetorical battle, New England backed the South right out of the American mainstream.

http://www.slavenorth.com/denial.htm
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. Very interesting post.
Certainly there was slavery in the north, just as there were numerous people opposed to slavery in the south. Perhaps the single best book about the peoples of early America is "Red, White, and Black," by Gary Nash, 1974, Prentice-Hall. A subject of related interest would be the anti-rent war in the Hudson Valley/Catskill region of New York.

In the area I live, there was a community of "run-away" slaves that were allied with Mohawk leader Joseph Brant during the 1770s. It's a little-known part of the local history. But it shows that many of the images of history that we have today, very simply just ain't so.

Still, in general terms, those maps tell a story that America would do well to consider.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
17. Has anybody here seen ...
Stonewall Franks or Jeb Stewart?

At least Wv did the right thing last Civil War! I wonder what happened this time?
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
19. This proves that the "moral values" thing is just a hoax
Whether the southerners realize it or not, their voting is inspired by racism.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. bigotry
racism, anti gay etc. i agree.
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