A depressing trip to Free Republic.

[Julien Sorel]

I'd never even heard of the site until I came here, and until today, the only time I've went over there was following links from here. Today, I was curious to see what they were saying about the election, and I noticed some things.

1) Religiosity. Holy Toledo! It's absolutely core to that place. Here, religion almost never gets brought up; there, it's a given that many of the posters are Christians, and those that aren't, shut up about it. I grew up in a non-religious household, so for me, to see people invoking God's name, and constantly praying for this or that is a little odd. It represents a mindset I don't understand.

2) They are as patriotic as we are. They truly believe Kerry will be a disaster for this country.

3) Bush the man is almost irrelevant to them. He's like a ghost: he's there, but he isn't substantial. They don't talk about his policies, his achievements, his goals -- nothing like that. They talk about his Godliness, and seem to view him as a guardian angel against the depravities of liberalism. As for any positive accomplishments? Irrelevant. He's anti-liberal, and that's all they want. That's why he will likely lose, by the way. You have to offer a positive vision somewhere, especially as an incumbent.

4) There is definitely some sense of defeatism there. They haven't given up hope, but they are clearly worried. But people here who are counting on a total meltdown will be disappointed, I suspect. Most of them seem pretty sane; they simply look at the world in a different way than we do. Sane people don't go completely berserk over losing an election.

5) The average poster here is smarter and better informed than the average poster there. Some of this might be due to my own bias: I obviously tend to agree with people here more often than I do with people there; and we always think people we agree with are smarter than those with whom we disagree. But there are things that are a dead giveaway. They believe the SBVT are credible, despite the massive amount of information demonstrating otherwise. Here, to draw a somewhat similar comparison, while people support Michael Moore, we also recognize that he goes over the top. I saw no indication there that they recognize something like that -- if you're on their side, you're infallible.


Overall, they are just a vastly different group of people. We're all Americans, but we are different kinds of Americans, and I don't see a lot of room for common ground in the near future. They believe in Creationism and the like; they believe facts are secondary to belief: I don't, and I'm likely to disagree a lot with those who do. Simply put, you aren't likely to see those folks give up their God, guns, and gays any time soon. And as long as there is a core group for whom those issues are central, there will be another George Bush to come along and cash in on it, although the next one is likely to be a lot more adept than Georgie boy. If the Republicans can't tame those people, can't find some moderating candidate or movement to move those people a little closer to the fringe, then the polarization we see today is going to continue for the foreseeable future.

[tjdee]

1. The format is so asinine I can never stay long.

DU has the neatest, most comprehensive discussion board format I've seen, so when I go to other message board sites, particularly FR, I get irritated and have to leave.

[Julien Sorel]

8. It took me about 20 minutes to feel

reasonably comfortable navigating the place. The format here is certainly better, and there are far more features here than they have.

[AndyTiedye]

28. I've Never Been Able To Stand FR for as long as 20 minutes

The format of the board isn't the problem, it's the people on it.
Patriotic? I think not! The "America" they love never existed,
and hopefully never will. More like Afghanistan with Talibornagains
instead of the Taliban.

[blueknight]

2. thanks for your opinion!

but most of those people are homophobic,religous fanatics,and racist

[Iris]

34. Yep! And they WILL go beserk if their little god-man loses.

It will be The Hunting of the President, Part II

[KingChicken]

3. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs however..

when it gets people killed you've gone too far. If faith creates war for others to fight you've sinned against whatever god you worship.

[bullimiami]

12. and when you cross from your faith right into killing

you are a criminal. in this case a war criminal and international human rights abuser.

[Skittles]

4. I do not agree that they are "patriotic"

wrapping yourself in God and the flag and supporting an unelected, illiterate piece of garbage for president in spite of all the evidence he has been a DISASTER for America is BLIND SUPPORT, NOT PATRIOTISM

Overall though you nail it - expecially #4 - they simply cannot talk in-depth about their Beloved Boy George because deep down they know what they would find.

[XanaDUer]

13. It's nationalism, not patriotism.

Thank you, Skittles. You're exactly correct.

[Skittles]

15. they put the interests of the GOP above the interests of America

they are not only NOT patriotic, they are fasicst.

[realisticphish]

16. no, they arent patriotic

they are nationalistic, which is the bottom line of every puke argument...to protester "why do you hate america", etc

:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

[Julien Sorel]

26. Defining "patriotism" as love of country,

I absolutely believe they are as patriotic as we are. They want the best for this country; it's just that their idea of what's best and your idea of what's best are different.

[Robbien]

5. Yep, I want my old America back. You know the America before BushCo

The one that the people who believed differently than I do where just my opponents. Now those guys believe I am the ENEMY!

Freeperville is sick and reflects the sad underbelly of our country which is now led by a bottom feeder.

[bowens43]

6. They are NOT patriotic.

They are Nationalistic. There is a HUGE difference. But they are definitely every bit the fundamentalists that Bin Laden and his followers are. They are just as much, if not more of a threat to our nation then bin laden and his followers.

"Nationalism is an infantile sickness. It is the measles of the human race."
Albert Einstein

[sui generis]

21. funny thing about the word "nationalist"

guess what party in 20th century history was an abbreviation of the German word for "nationalist"? . . . . (pronounced "natzeeonalist" in German.)

[bullimiami]

7. they are from the faith based world but

we are from the reality based world.

so its modern vs the medieval.

[wtmusic]

9. "They look at the world in a different way" is putting it mildly

Fascism and turning the US into a theocracy are AOK.

They're going to have to learn, just like the Klan did. Ain't no room for that bullshit it modern society.

[livinbella]

10. They are very worried, so they ain't as stupid as I thought.

But they are very very unlikable.

[camero]

11. Well, we're not all Americans here

Though I am one, DU has a growing international flavor. It's much more diverse than Freeperland.

[Goldmund]

19. We're all French here

:)

[eyesroll]

14. Just stay away.

:scared:

[Goldmund]

"believe facts are secondary to belief"

Not only that -- but they believe facts are secondary to political benefit for Bush. And this trumps their patriotism as well. Any of the bad news for Bush has also been bad for the country -- the absence of WMDs, the explosives story, etc, etc -- but they keep cursing whomever spreads around these stories, and keep wishing for them to be buried. It doesn't matter if it hurt the country -- it only matters that it hurt Bush.

Also, there is FAR more herd mentality there. There are plenty of contrarians on DU on almost every issue, and while there's a lot of herd-ism here as well, it is NOTHING compared to the way it is over there.

That said, there are many decent, and intelligent, Freepers. It doesn't at all pain me to admit that. They are as far as you can get from me on the ideological spectrum, but many of them I'd like to have a debate with. Many Freepers don't engage in regurtitating of RW talking points, Rush-worshipping, etc.

[sui generis]

17. they are different, no doubt

you hit the nail on the head though - they are basically irrational. They don't repeat facts, they state their opinions on things by saying "I feel that, such and such".

They blindly repeat talking points, but the second you ask them why they'll fire back with an ad hominem argument.

There is no substance below the surface. If you scratch the surface, you'll just get an angry monkey.

No, they are not as patriotic as you and I. They want to tell you what you can and can't do with your body, your relationships, and your property depending on whether they think you're moral enough to be an American. If you were to turn the tables on them and claim that being a Freeper is immoral and Freepers should have a constitutional amendment preventing them from getting married or having civil unions, you would have a civil war, and yet they expect gays to just fade away for some reason.

They expect to send everyone off to war except themselves, and when anyone complains that soldiers aren't being treated right, you are attacked for not being a patriot or for not supporting the troops.

I know it dehumizes them to generalize, but I personally despise them, utterly. I would never hire one or lease an apartment to one or write a loan to one or give one of them a meal in a restaurant of mine. I would certainly never offer one insurance, and I wouldn't recognize their marriages as valid or their rights as Americans as equal to mine. I say this all hyperbolically, but you get the point.

[kranich]

18. Good and accurate analysis n/t

[eataTREE]

20. Kudos to you, BillyBunter...

...for being more objective, even-handed, and kind to Free Republic than I could ever manage to be.

"They believe facts are secondary to belief." That's the core of it, isn't it? The Bible says that God made the world in six days, and so that's the way it must be. Evidence to the contrary is irrelevant. They believe that * is a good and godly man, therefore he is. His actual record is irrelevant. When phenomena conflicts with beliefs, then phenomena be damned.

[Swamp Rat]

22. Nationalists that are patriotic.

Fascism will split the republican party in two as they eat their own.

[LibertyorDeath]

23. History is full of Fools who believe facts are secondary to belief

They are a very dangerous Animal (in large numbers) as they will follow any Fascist down the Road To Hell as long as He\She reflects their beliefs\values.

[Alpharetta]

24. They're not religious. They're rightwing hijackers of Christianity

My suspicion is that they know exactly how hypocritical they are to be homophobe,
anti-life with their pro-war stance
anti-truth with their views
anti-democratic with the people and methods they approve

[George_S]

25. Excellent post, and overall I agree, however...

... The Bush doctrine of an unwavering and resolute person of conviction, the same type as Limbaugh, Coulter and Hannity, might very well be out of favor after this election. There will always be a faction, like the Freepers, who think faith more important than anything else, including wisdom and knowledge.

But the majority of the Conservative Party will want to take a second look at this kind of non-reasoning. This election was meant to be their triumph and their victory after 30 years of fighting and propaganda.

It didn't work and they will have to regroup.

That said, their Lock and Load comments mean nothing to me. Just talk, and we can't really blame them for being frustrated. We would be too if we were going to lose.

Something to keep in mind though is that the Freepers do more than post at their site. They infitrate every forum they can and disrupt it with deception and trolling, using personas and tried and true propaganda techniques. Maybe liberals do the same, but I'd like to think it only self defense.

A google search for "freeper" will shed some more light on their tactics.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

27. The average poster there is the kind of person the GOP will marginalize

when they lose this election and continue on a losing streak.

Catering to extremism will cost the GOP dearly..it has cost them moderate voters and these extremists are in state legislatures and will haunt them for a period much like David Duke running haunted them for a time.

[Julien Sorel]

29. We will see.

There's a lot of political hay to be made pandering to those folks. Bush is a demagogue, perhaps the most politically successful demagogue in the history of this country, but he isn't really much of a man or a politician. If, with his limitations, he was able to ride those folks as far as he has, a sharper person can come along and go a lot further. It might not be for a few election cycles, but I don't see those folks changing their world view any time in the next decade or two. They will be waiting for the next savior to come along and exploit them.

[Pig_Latin_Lover]

30. Better informed?

That's a tough call. I've been in many an argument with freepers who ignore many facts and jump to conclusions, so it's hard for me to consider them better informed when they don't usually use reasoning.

As far as being "smarter" goes, I think they are definitely more clever. They use a lot of police tactics to lure you into saying something stupid, or get you off topic. But, given their usual basis for reasoning, it's hard for me to consider them as being smarter. Especially since they vote against their best interest on a regular basis. :)

[ProfessorGAC]

31. He Said DU'ers Were Better Informed

I think you got his point backwards.
The Professor

[Pig_Latin_Lover]

37. Whew!

I knew that didn't make much sense. :)

[Julien Sorel]

33. I think you have that part backwards.

;-)

[AndyTiedye]

32. A More Interesting Board is Timebomb2000

http://www.timebomb2000.com

More libertarian/survivalist than freeper.

They get a lot of freepers, but freepers don't own the board,
so you can get some real discussion going.

[Ima]

35. that place is freeper lite

[GeorgeBushytail]

36. They "love" America, but hate Americans

[yardwork]

38. A lot of posters on FR are mentally ill, imo

Their posts reveal a lot of personality disorders, paranoia, and probable alcoholism/drug abuse. A lot of them sound like they have wetbrain. They have dysfunctional lives, abusive childhoods, big problems.

I used to go there and tease them but then I realized it was stupid and unkind. I just ignore them now. I feel sorry for them. They need mental health care - which they won't get, since Republicans and the smashed economy mean that MH care funding is being slashed all over the country.