Will flying ever be safe again?

[Bluebear]

While the TSA agents work hard at strip searching Granny to make things look secure at our nation's airports, under this President 380 tons of explosives have been looted. Only 1 pound of this brought down Pan Am 103. Yet this administration blocks efforts to have checked baggage X-rayed.



Billions of dollars in sweetheart deals have gone to Halliburton. Meanwhile, this President has resisted funding for cargo container inspection. How many of these 380 tons could find their way onto our shores, where the Vice President already has warned we are under severe danger of nuclear attack?



And three years after 9/11, this President THIS WEEK announced that the US is BEGINNING tighter flight school checks.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041023/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/tsa_flight_schools_2

And our "Homeland Security" is Bush's strong suit? Security "moms" think he is protecting us? What has to happen before people actually hold this man accountable for anything for the first time in his life?

[DELUSIONAL]

1. We won't be safe with bush in the white house

I need to fly in a few weeks -- have put it off until after the election.

This news does not make me feel safer and strip searching 94 year old women doesn't make anyone safer -- if the idiots don't know who the hell to focus on -- no one is safer -- just more frightened.

now the idiots are feeling up women's breasts (randomly we are told) just to make sure the boobs are real before being allow on the plane (and video taping the whole process -- for further viewing by the perverts??)

I cannot imagine 4 more years of this bush crime family.
-------------------

http://www.modbee.com/state_wire/story/9267336p-10170742c.html
Woman drives home rather than submit to airport search

SAN DIEGO (AP) - A woman said she drove home from Denver rather than submit to what she viewed as an intrusive search by airport security screeners.
------------------

Another Story

http://kyw.com/Local%20News/local_story_265224751.html

Passenger: Airport Search Was Inappropriate

[izzie]

2. What you forget is that with the corp we are safe.

Isn't that what Bush is telling us. Corp will not let anything happen to profits.

[RivetJoint]

3. It's safe now

When was the last time a large US passenger plane crashed?

[DELUSIONAL]

4. ah -- but it doesn't feel safe

and it won't feel safe until we have a new truly elected President -- who doesn't wage fear on the flying public.

[RivetJoint]

6. I get on airplanes a few times a month

no fear here; or from other fliers I speak to.

[okayremedy7]

5. "It's safe now"

It seemed more unsafe in the 70's when all the hijackings
were going on. I guess it's a perception thing.

OK

[porphyrian]

8. Exactly, safety is a perception, not a state.

Basically, no one is ever "safe." We are all mortal, and the world is a dangerous place, despite who or what is the danger of the week. We are all going to die. Anyone who is determined enough to do so is going to rob, hurt or kill you. No amount of guns, locks or laws can prevent this. The most we can hope for is deterring those who are less motivated by putting up enough barriers to make robbing, hurting or killing us too much of a hassle to bother with. That said, most people are too absorbed in maintaining their own illusion of security to bother with you, thus reinforcing your own sense that the measures you are taking are working. Ultimately, however, we are never safe, just comfortable enough to stop thinking about it.

[newyawker99]

18. Hi okayremedy7!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[amazona]

7. november 12, 2001, wasn't it?

I agree the odds are with you, and I fly all the time. I am searched plenty for whatever reason, and, yes, of course, sometimes they have to pat you down, but if people want to sexualize what is a businesslike safety procedure, I think it's in their head and not in the head of the TSA employee who is just trying to get us there alive.


To those who object to the searches, I would say this --

Many people don't understand the concept of randomness. Random means random. Random means that sometimes a 94 year old can and should be searched. Once you let nonrandomness("common sense") come into play, you have a hole that terrorists can exploit. It is not unbelievable that some 94 year old, somewhere, at some time, will decide to go out with a "bang" for personal or political reasons. After all, there are women hijackers and suicide bombers, and usually for causes that are seeking to put women back in the cave.

You can't just look at an old person and assume they have no strong beliefs they would be willing to die for. Is that not, in the end, just as insulting as respecting them as a person and including them in the random searches?

[DELUSIONAL]

20. If the sexual assault of women makes you safe

then we are not safe and the terrorists have won.

A frail, old 94 year old woman - who was searched "randomly" -- is a stupid waste of time and resources.

The flying population is being threatened and intimidated -- THIS is just one way that the bushies keep the fear level up.

One news item in the latest breaking news column -- bushies poll numbers go up when the threat level is raised. By constant intimidation of airline passengers the bushies hope to gain votes -- became stupid people "feel safer" when a frail 94 year old woman is searched. Has there ever been an incident of a 94 year old tiny frail woman trying to hijack an airplane? It is amazing how many people have bought into the fear tactics of the bushies -- thanks for giving me another example of -- gosh gee -- if they say it -- then it must be true -- bull shit.

Random searches of a young woman with a 3 month old child will NOT make you safer -- anyone who believes this bull shit line from the bushies is an very stupid person.

There are ways of making the flying public safer without intimidation and sexual molestation of women.

Logic and common sense are called for -- identification of terrorists groups and individuals BEFORE they have a chance to enter the US -- is the best route. We know that many Saudis got into the US with a stream lined system put in place by the bush administration -- and we know that the majority of 9/11 hijackers were Saudi nationals.

Kerry's plan to reduce the terrorism threat to Clinton era levels -- where luggage searches was common -- but NOT sexual molestation of women -- is a better plan.

It is always amazing to me how naive and ill informed the civilian population is about real safety. Clinton managed to keep us safe WITHOUT sexual molestation of women who merely have bought a ticket to fly on an airplane.

No one is safer when the cargo in the hole of the passenger airlines are not being searched -- this is where the danger is -- not 94 year old women or women with babies.

While the stupid bushies are pushing their fear -- terrorists are more then likely working on more sophisticated tactics which will fly under the current passenger intimidation methods of screening. The bushies are too damned dumb to consider all the possibilities. Seems like the determined terrorist will always be a step or two ahead of linear thinkers like the bush (can't shoot straight) gang.

There are people who have devious minds who could be recruited for a think tank -- to stay a step ahead of the terrorists planners. The bushies aren't creative enough to manage this sort of pro-active planning. All they seem to do is create new terror recruiters.

The approval of the intimidation of a frail 94 year old woman by US "authorities" -- who managed to escape Hitler -- makes me understand how a person like Hitler could get away with the murder of millions. The German people were convinced that their "authorities" were protecting them from "evil doers" or whatever.

[Squatch]

9. Hmmmm...

"In fact, based on this incredible safety record, if you did fly every day of your life, probability indicates that it would take you nineteen thousand years before you would succumb to a fatal accident. Nineteen thousand years!"

http://www.anxieties.com/index.php?nic=flying-howsafe

Let's run that up a flagpole and see how it waves....

[newyawker99]

19. Hi Squatch!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[UdoKier]

10. I'm sorry - was flying EVER safe?

I found flying slightly scary before 9-11, and I STILL find it exactly as scary.

It's STILL safer than driving, but there are inherent dangers in either mode (any mode actually) off transport.


I get the gist of your post, and there does need to more vigilance in the areas you cite. But it's a matter of perception, as others have noted.

Even if we achieve the Star Trek federation someday, transport ships will STILL crash on occasion and people will die.


The need for absolute security and safety by some is childish. There will never be any such thing.

[Bluebear]

12. I'm sorry too. I can face the odds of an accident.

I realize full well the inherent dangers of flying, having worked in the airline industry. Mechanical failures, poilot error, weather, these things happen.

What I have a hard time reconciling is that someone might pack a pound of this explosive in a checked bag and blow me to smithereens and our President won't a) authorize funds for screening of checked baggage and cargo, b) guard the explosive cache they were warned about, c) tell me my country is in imminent danger of attack ANY DAY but d) keep flying anyhow, the economy needs commerce!

[UdoKier]

15. Like I said, the concerns you raise are valid and should be addressed.

But I'm not going to lose sleep over the miniscule chance of perishing due to a terror attack, nor will I lose sleep over the LESS-miniscule chance of dying in an accident.

I don't buy Bush's fearmongering, so I'm not about to start buying it elsewhere.

The containers should be checked because that's common sense, just like installing a rail on a staircase is common sense. But do you think we need to fearmonger as Bush has done just to win?

Do you wake up worrying about the terrorist threat? If so< I don't know whether to pity you for your parranoia or envy you that your other problems are so small in scale that you even think about terrorism.

I wake up and wonder how I'm going to pay the rent and feed the kids. That's my reality and my fear - not being able to support my family.

[noonwitch]

14. At least with driving, I feel like I'm in control (I better!)

I've never liked flying and never will. I'll fly somewhere if I have to (like Europe or the West Coast), but anywhere east of the Rockies that I'm headed to, I'll drive or take Amtrack (only to NYC, because who wants to deal with parking there).

[Tsiyu]

11. I haven't flown since before 911

The kids have flown in private aircraft ( one ex is a pilot). I wonder if I will ever feel safe in an aircraft again - and I never felt too safe "up there" to begin with.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

13. Perspective

After 9/11, I was debating whether to fly to L.A. for a convention in November. Then three things happened in quick succession:

1) An acquaintance died of a blood clot after minor, routine surgery.

2) A counter attendant at my favorite bakery/espresso bar, a friendly young man in his early twenties, collapsed with a massive cerebral hemorrhage and died a couple of days later without regaining consciousness.

3) A truck lost its brakes coming down the hill three blocks from my apartment and ran into a lampost, which came crashing down about five feet behind me. If I had been walking a bit slower, I would have been killed.

Those upsetting incidents made me realize that there are countless ways to die suddenly. I don't want to die in an exploding airplane, but worrying about it does no more good than worrying whether some medical time bomb that is ticking away in my body without any particular symptoms or whether the next truck coming down the road is going to lose its brakes.

I bought my tickets for Los Angeles, flew down and back on half-full planes (the best way to fly), and had a great time at the convention and doing some sightseeing. But so many people missed the convention that the optional activities for attendees were cancelled.

With the deterioration in service and the cramped seating, flying is now more frustrating than frightening.

[Bluebear]

16. Maybe not to someone who has to fly for a living

I don't mean to get into a big philosophical debate, but this administration certainly has not safeguarded our skies as they claim. I maintain that far more could be done and there is a tombstone mentality that they are willing to accept a certain number of fatalities versus how much the safeguards would cost.

[nolabels]

17. They say it took one pound to get the lockerbie plane to crash

That means they have 760,000 chances with the stuff

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5260/headpage.ht