NBC News report on missing high explosives--verbatim:

[geek tragedy]

<snip>
“April 10, 2003, only three weeks into the war, NBC News was embedded with troops from the Army’s 101st Airborne as they temporarily take over the Al Qakaa weapons installation south of Baghdad. But these troops never found the nearly 380 tons of some of the most powerful conventional explosives, called HMX and RDX, which is now missing. The U.S. troops did find large stockpiles of more conventional weapons, but no HMX or RDX, so powerful less than a pound brought down Pan Am 103 in 1988, and can be used to trigger a nuclear weapon. In a letter this month, the Iraqi interim government told the International Atomic Energy Agency the high explosives were lost to theft and looting due to lack of security. Critics claim there were simply not enough U.S. troops to guard hundreds of weapons stockpiles, weapons now being used by insurgents and terrorists to wage a guerrilla war in Iraq.” (NBC’s “Nightly News,” 10/25/04)

This DOES undercut the charge that they were looted after the US took control of the facility.

But,why is the White House lying its ass off about this? This is very, very confusing.

[The_Casual_Observer]

1. RDX is just C-4 plastic explosive.

This is about the most common conventional explosive there is. It was probably there and they don't want to admit it now.

[geek tragedy]

2. I'm just reporting what the NBC report says.

The beef should not be with Drudge in this case--we need to examine the NBC report.

[JohnnyCougar]

7. NBC is busted

they already debunked this.

[geek tragedy]

9. Do you have a link for a debunking of the NBC report? eom

[Tesibria]

14. best link (someone else posted it on another thread)

is at
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/

It addresses all the various claims -- but you need to read down quite a ways to get it all :)

[geek tragedy]

18. I don't see that debunking the NBC report so much as exposing

Bush admin lies and coverups.

[JohnnyCougar]

22. The UN has satelite photos

and sources from the Pentagon itself. There are links around here somewhere.

[geek tragedy]

24. I'd love to see the stuff about satellite photos. I've looked but not

found them.

[JohnnyCougar]

27. sorry

I can't remember what thread it was on. Somewhere in GD:2004.

[geek tragedy]

31. There's a WP story in LBN with this.

However, that only reveals that the BUNKERS were intact--not that the explosives themselves were still there.

[ogradda]

3. they're pathological liars

seriously. they lie for gain , to protect themselves, for practice, they even lie when telling the truth would be better. they are all fucking whacked seriously.

[papau]

29. some source/links

Nelson Report newsletter is main source - links below


http://www.nytimes.com/pages/pageone/scan/index.html
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_10_...

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_10_...

Nelson Report newsletter is a private NEWSLETTER widely read in DC



http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/w-me/2004/oct...

By WILLIAM J. KOLE
ASSOCIATED PRESS
VIENNA, Austria (AP)
<snip>
At the Pentagon, an official who monitors developments in Iraq said U.S.-led coalition troops had searched Al-Qaqaa in the immediate aftermath of the March 2003 invasion and confirmed that the explosives, under IAEA seal since 1991, were intact. Thereafter, the site was not secured by U.S. forces, the official said, also speaking on condition of anonymity.
The Iraqis told the nuclear agency the materials were stolen and looted because of a lack of security at governmental installations, Fleming said.
"We do not know what happened to the explosives or when they were looted," she told AP.

[papau]

36. Will US Media dare to report this AP Wire conjecture? Insurgents got 400T!

Will US Media dare to report this AP Wire conjecture? Insurgents got 400T!

Insurgents could possess up to 400 tons of the deadly materials often used in bombs

By William J. Kole, Associated Press

VIENNA, Austria -- The U.N. nuclear agency warned Monday that insurgents in Iraq may have obtained nearly 400 tons of missing explosives that can be used in the kind of car bomb attacks that have targeted U.S.-led coalition forces for months.
<snip>

The disappearance raised questions about why the United States didn't do more to secure the Al-Qaqaa facility 30 miles south of Baghdad and failed to allow full international inspections to resume after the March 2003 invasion.
<snip>

Al-Qaqaa is near Youssifiyah, an area rife with ambush attacks. An Associated Press Television News crew that drove past the compound Monday saw no visible security at the gates of the site, a jumble of low-slung, yellow-colored storage buildings that appeared deserted.
<snip>

Insurgents targeting coalition forces in Iraq have made widespread use of plastic explosives in a bloody spate of car bomb attacks. Officials were unable to link the missing explosives directly to the recent car bombings, but the revelations that they could have fallen into enemy hands caused a stir in the last week of the U.S. presidential campaign.
<snip>
http://www.trivalleyherald.com/Stories/0,1413,86~10669~2492592,00.html

[papau]

37. Josh Marshall posts interview NBC Producer embed - No Search

Josh Marshall posts interview NBC Producer embed - No Search


http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com /

Lai Ling Jew: When we went into the area, we were actually leaving Karbala and we were initially heading to Baghdad with the 101st Airborne, Second Brigade. The situation in Baghdad, the Third Infantry Division had taken over Baghdad and so they were trying to carve up the area that the 101st Airborne Division would be in charge of. Um, as a result, they had trouble figuring out who was going to take up what piece of Baghdad. They sent us over to this area in Iskanderia. We didn't know it as the Qaqaa facility at that point but when they did bring us over there we stayed there for quite a while. Almost, we stayed overnight, almost 24 hours. And we walked around, we saw the bunkers that had been bombed, and that exposed all of the ordinances that just lied dormant on the desert.

AR: Was there a search at all underway or was, did a search ensue for explosives once you got there during that 24-hour period?

LLJ: No. There wasn't a search. The mission that the brigade had was to get to Baghdad. That was more of a pit stop there for us. And, you know, the searching, I mean certainly some of the soldiers head off on their own, looked through the bunkers just to look at the vast amount of ordnance lying around. But as far as we could tell, there was no move to secure the weapons, nothing to keep looters away. But there was – at that point the roads were shut off. So it would have been very difficult, I believe, for the looters to get there.

AR: And there was no talk of securing the area after you left. There was no discussion of that?

LLJ: Not for the 101st Airborne, Second Brigade. They were -- once they were in Baghdad, it was all about Baghdad, you know, and then they ended up moving north to Mosul. Once we left the area, that was the last that the brigade had anything to do with the area.

AR: Well, Lai Ling Jew, thank you so much for shedding some light into that situation. We appreciate it.

[juliagoolia]

4. Bullshit

Here is the problem.. We were supposed to know where all these weapons were.. and since we were supposed to be protecting the world from weapons .. we failed didn't we. Why was this not reported then? This is a cover up..
That is what they do not want to come out..

The cover up!!!!!!!!!!! They covered up the fact that we went in there and let explosives that the world had under control get loose on the planet!!

We had an inventory from the IAEA of these weapons and if they are just now finding out they are missing they are truly retarded. If they are not just now finding out they are covering up what they have known. And..this means that these weapons have had a year and a half to move around the Globe to threaten people all over the world..

And what is the result of this?>?? The world will be mad at us folks.. Thats a FACT.. they knew where these damn explosives were until BUSH and crew decided to go in there and F* up the middle east and let the terrorist have tons of explosives

Thanks BUSH you idiot!

[Maple]

5. The military already admitted it

and the UN has photos.

Obviously the 'embedded' reporters at NBC weren't consulted.

[geek tragedy]

6. We need to focus our attention on this report. This is good for the

Freeptoids. We need to be ahead of them on this.

The coverup is the story here.

We need to point out administration LIES about this--shift tactics from the explosives to the coverup.

[juliagoolia]

16. coverup or inept.. your choice

They are either the most inept whitehouse and dod, or the most criminal

YOU PICK

[Jimmy D]

8. You Believed NBC embeded reporter

Wake up

Best regards
Jim

[geek tragedy]

10. I'm not saying I believe it--but we do need to address it and

debunk it.

We can't just say "Drudge schmudge."

[SoCalDem]

11. What NBC said.. (link included)

"The letter from Abbas informed the IAEA that since Sept. 4, 2003, looting at the Al-Qaqaa installation south of Baghdad had resulted in the loss of 214.67 tons of HMX, 155.68 tons of RDX and 6.39 tons of PETN explosives."


http://www.nbc4.com/news/3849528/detail.html

[geek tragedy]

13. So, we have to play this as:

Are you calling Allawi's government a bunch of liars?

The Iraqi government's account contradicts the NBC report. Wtf?

I know embeds aren't that reliable, but there would appear to be little motive for the US to lie about the explosives' ABSENCE at the time. I can understand them lying by claiming that they were accounted for, but that didn't happen.

[SoCalDem]

17. The IAEA said they were intact..

That's an international body.. There are documents stating this fact.. If the ammo dump was intact before 9/03, and they have documents (and maybe photos) to prove it.. That's pretty solid evidence..

we have been there since 3/03..

[geek tragedy]

19. As far as I understand, it is the Iraqi government saying they were intact

when the US took over.

The IAEA had no way of knowing what was going on when their inspectors were forced to leave.

[SoCalDem]

25. From FOXNEWS own website.. IAEA inspection chronology

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,71607,00.html

a complete chronology of IAEA's inspections in the run-up to the war

way too much to post..al qaqaa is mentioned MANY times.

---

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2687457.stm

Thursday, 23 January, 2003, 12:33 GMT
UN denies inspecting Iraqi mosque


Sheikh Ammash accused the UN of "provocation"

The United Nations has insisted that members of its weapons inspection team in Iraq who visited a mosque earlier this week did so as tourists and not as part of their disarmament mission.
Everyone at the mosque was very cordial to them

snip.....

He said they had asked questions about the mosque, including about its age, but not others the imam had claimed were asked, such as whether there was an underground shelter.

'Half-hour visit'

Sheikh Ammash said on Wednesday that five inspectors had arrived at his mosque in a four-wheel-drive vehicle.The cleric said they were unaccompanied by Iraqi minders, as is normally the case when inspections take place. Are they looking for weapons of mass destruction or are they gauging the faith in our hearts?


snip...

"Are they looking for weapons of mass destruction or are they gauging the faith in our hearts?"

Thursday saw the inspectors continue the hunt for banned weapons.

The Iraqi information ministry said they had visited the al-Qaqaa chemical and explosives complex, 25 kilometres (16 miles) south of Baghdad - a frequently inspected site.

They also went to the medical and science colleges of Baghdad's al-Mustansiriya University, and a fibreglass tubing factory south of the capital.

---

CNN.com - Iraqi scientists refuse private UN talks - Jan. 25, 2003
... UN Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission and the IAEA visited several ...
surface missile facility northwest of Baghdad; the al QaQaa military complex ...
www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/ meast/01/25/sprj.irq.inspections/ - 43k - Cached - Similar pages

[Rjnerd]

30. Date wrong... CNN made the same mistake

Its a european document, the date is day month year, so the "stolen after" date is actuall 9 April. (there is another date in the document that isn't ambigous 15/../..) Used to have to deal with records from a UK parent, it was a real pain, so everyone in the US branch office decided to switch.

[SoCalDem]

32. even if it's April it's still AFTER we invaded

:)

[The_Casual_Observer]

35. Didn't the attacks and invasion begin in March 20th

It seems that by April 10 they were well into the invasion. It wouldn't surprise me that by then these stock piles would have been looted.

[Miss Authoritiva]

12. Just don't tell me that...

Just don't tell me that the embedded NBC reporter was Bloom, because he died around that time.

[Tesibria]

15. MUST READ - http://talkingpointsmemo.com /

http://talkingpointsmemo.com /
must read - best listing of what is known and not known out there -- and debunking of the spinS.

[juliagoolia]

20. yeah what i said.. only better.. LOL

[Miss Authoritiva]

26. Thanks for the link.

And Talking Points links up to Tuesday's NYT article here.

[My Pet Goat]

21. AP April 04 Report Indicates..

that thousands of boxes containing vials of probably explosive powder were found from a first hand account by an Army officer.

Would powder explosives contained in thousands of small vials be considered a convention explosive? I don't think so.

Other reporting from the same period corroborates.

Check this link out: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/10/26/01758/897

[juliagoolia]

23. Someone better save all this

Closer to Baghdad, troops at Iraq's largest military industrial complex found nerve agent antidotes, documents describing chemical warfare and a white powder that appeared to be used for explosives.
U.N. weapons inspectors went repeatedly to the vast al Qa Qaa complex -- most recently on March 8 -- but found nothing during spot visits to some of the 1,100 buildings at the site 25 miles south of Baghdad.

Col. John Peabody, engineer brigade commander of the 3rd Infantry Division, said troops found thousands of 2-by-5-inch boxes, each containing three vials of white powder, together with documents written in Arabic that dealt with how to engage in chemical warfare.

Initial reports suggest the powder is an explosive, but tests are still being done, a senior U.S. official said. If confirmed, it would be consistent with what the Iraqis say is the plant's purpose, producing explosives and propellants.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/10/26/01758/897

I saved a copy of the html file.. in case anyone needs it.

[BUSHOUT]

28. THIS UNDERCUTS the denial that they KNEW about this shit:

From several news sources today:

At the Pentagon, an official who monitors developments in Iraq said U.S.-led coalition troops had searched Al-Qaqaa in the immediate aftermath of the March 2003 invasion and confirmed that the explosives, under IAEA seal since 1991, were intact. Thereafter, the site was not secured by U.S. forces, the official said, also speaking on condition of anonymity.


It was looted after the invasion. The administration is trying to deflect this.

They're even comparing this place to all the other weapons caches in the country....whining that they couldn't protect all of them. This was the mother of all caches...this wasn't weapons, this was MILITARY GRADE EXPLOSIVES! Bush knew about it and he failed to protect it.

These explosives will be killing Americans and American troops for decades.

[wtmusic]

33. Got to get the 'anonymous official' on the record n/t

[BUSHOUT]

34. No, we don't. We don't hear the WH denying the charge, that's enough.

Respected reporters are allowed to cite anonymous sources, and they're given value based upon the reporters rep.

If the WH directly disputes this...then the identity of the anonymous source is a hot topic. Otherwise, only the WH response matters.