Why I left my church

[cally]

I'm watching CNN presents about the Presbyterian church. I'm a Presbyterian and this show finally made me realize that I had left my church.

I'm a liberal Christian. I'm a liberal because I'm a Christian. I know I would not be a liberal without my church. I learned faith, tolerance, love in my church. I met folks who I believe are touched by God. Not a Christian God but the God of the Universe. It's hard for me to describe what it meant to be part if the Christian youth groups when I was. All I can say is that when I reviewed tolerance education for public schools, it was the same training we had when I was a teen.

I don't know what changed. I moved away, went to many churches, met many folks. My church was not the same. I found a church where they thought like I did except there were no young people. The seniors were tolerant but very few folks with children. I ended up joining a Church with many youth. Then wars over whether we should shun gays and lesbians wars. My church took no stance but that infuriated me. The final break, which I didn't recognize at the time, was the 9/11 sermon. I was hoping for solace, instead I learned that there had been a service that I did not know about. So on the Sunday afterward I learned about how we should send more missionaries to the middle east. I think we need to learn about each other and about tolerance. But sending missionaries alone will not solve these problems. I haven't been back to church since then even though I always thought I would go back.

I'm still a Christian but not one denomination.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. I understand and sympathize

Like you, I was raised in a Protestant church (Methodist), and was taught tolerance, love, and foregiveness. I left my church because of anti-Sematism. Years later, I found my spiritual home in Sufism. May you find your spiritual home somewhere-a place that feels right to you in your heart.

[klook]

2. Good for you

I was raised to be a Christian but gradually became an atheist. However, I try my best to live by what are supposed to be Christian principles--being honest, treating others the way I'd like to be treated, helping out those less fortunate when I can, etc. (just not the getting saved part). No brag, just tryin' to do what's right, like millions of other people.

Although I am not a Christian today, my Christian upbringing certainly played a role in making me who I am. So, unlike some atheists who choose to see only the negative in organized religion, I have a lot of respect for thoughtful, conscientious Christians (as well as those of other faiths).

[puddycat]

3. Jesus would be very unhappy w/*s version of Christianity

sadly, * is doing harm to Christianity. We need great liberal Christians like Jimmy Carter to have a bigger voice and be more visible in our society.

[IconoclastIlene]

4. I'm a wandering Jew with no affiliation.

I hear ya!

[friesianrider]

5. I was watching that CNN Special too and was scared...

When the guy said "I think the liberals of this country are scared of us..." I turned to my boyfriend and said "you're damn right I'm scared of them!"

It's so sad (even though I was raised a Christian) thatwhenever someone wears their religion on their sleeve, I am automatically suspect. I always thought that Christ taught love, acceptance, tolerance, and peace. I do not see these core Christian values represented whatsoever by the Republican party or GWB.

[robertarctor]

6. I was raised Presbyterian.

The problem you write of came about after the old liberal United Presbyterian Church merged with the wingnut Presbyterian Church USA, and the wingnuts came out on top. Perhaps fitting, because the roots of modern Republicanism came from these thrifty chumps; between John Calvin, John Knox and Adam Smith, we Scots have a lot to answer for in the current debacle.

[polmaven]

7. I am watching it too.

They just finished a piece about Florida's faith based prisons. Now, I have no problem with clergy visiting prisons, and even conducting religious services inside prisons. I am a liberal Christian, and understand that religion...any religion...can work wonders with some people.

BUT!!!!!!! This is a BIG but!!!!!! Funding for prison education programs have apparently been cut in the secular realm, and funneled into the religious education programs, run by an Evangelical church. PARTICIPATION IS MANDATORY!!!!!! THERE IS NO AVOIDING IT. Prisoners are forced to attend the religious education sessions.

They are about to open a second faith based prison...this one for women.

HOW CAN THIS POSSIBLY BE CONSTITUTIONAL??????? Florida DUers...How accurate is this report? This is really, really scary!!!!

HOW CAN THIS NOT BE MAKING LAWS REGARDING ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION????

[sandnsea]

12. My understanding

Is that being part of the program you're mentioning is voluntary. Of course, if you want any help at all and it's your only choice, how voluntary is that.

The only bright side to this for me is that these self-righteous people are finally going to discover that helping people is "hard work". And they don't have the answers because if they did, everybody would have fallen before Jesus 2000 years ago and there would never have been another problem afterwards. (If Christianity is ones faith). So it'll be interesting to see them struggle with underfunding, probation setups, over-zealous prosecutions, discrimination, and all the rest, that liberals have been dealing with when trying to help prisoners for years. What's that saying... be careful what you pray for. Yeah, they're going to have their eyes blown wide open in short order.

[Kanary]

8. I left a long time ago, but I know how painful it is.

My thoughts are with you...... I know this is very difficult.

I think that those of us who see the conflict, and the dissonance of the true message, and the actuality, will be coming together in some way, and finding a way to speak through the tatters of what is left.

I wish you well.

:pals:

Kanary

[southlandshari]

9. Some churches are still fighting the good fight

Here's a new DU thread with some positive stories about church activism:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2534926#2534951

I do think things vary greatly from local church to local church, regardless of denomination. I grew up in what used to be a progressive and mission-oriented United Methodist congregation. I've moved back to my hometown after nearly 20 years away, and do not recognize my old congregation anymore.

I have moved to the Presbyterian (USA) congregation down the street, and have never been happier. My minister is willing to speak out for peace, justice and truth, even when such stands are unpopular with those in positions of power.

[TrustingDog]

10. we are only as strong as the weakest amongst us....

that's religion. that's what the J said.

go tell it on the mountains of Halliburton and Bush cash.

[AnnInLa]

11. You don't need an organized "church"

YOU are a church, I am a church...If you like the fellowship, try the Unitarians, the most liberal bunch of people I've ever seen. Kerry said today in FL that the measure of a society is in how we take care of our disadvantaged people. In the end, as individuals, our measure will be our daily actions, not our church attendance.

[Cerridwen]

13. All I can think to say is "I'm sorry for your loss" - n/t

[cally]

14. I'm not!

Yes, I'm sad but I need to find a church that I can belong to. I was clinging to the Presbyterians because that's was where I felt comfortable. It's freeing to realize that I no longer belong.

[Cerridwen]

18. Glad to hear it. Have you checked out Unitarian

Universalists?

Here's a link in case it'll be useful.

http://www.uua.org/

[cally]

19. Yes, but I need to go back...nt

[Cerridwen]

20. Good luck to you, whatever you decide. I'll keep good thoughts

for you.

:hug:

[GreenPartyVoter]

15. *hugs* If you are looking for a place to hang online there are

several decent messageboards where progressive Christians hang out. I have many of them listed on my website, and I use the same name there (or GPV) as I do here so you'll know me if ya see me. :hi:

[Greylyn58]

16. I Am Like You...

I was brought up from the day I was born in the Assoc. Reform Presbyterian Church or ARP as I call it. I grew up in this religion, never questioning things. When I was little I loved all these people and thought they were wonderful.

However as I got older I began to notice cracks in the way people would say one thing and then do something else. One of the things that angered me the most was when I invited my best friend to my church one Sunday and she wore the best clothes she had which consisted of a nice pants suit (just so you know this was 1974) and some of these so-called fine, Christian souls looked down their noses at her because she didn't wear a dress to church. Some of these same people got into a HOLY SNIT when someone suggested started a square dance group in out Fellowship Hall. NO...NO WAY...No dancing in the church. One man quit because he didn't get a contract to paint the interior of the church. It finally drove me away.

I still believe and do consider myself a Christian. I just don't believe in any organized religion anymore. Too many wars and unhappiness have been cause by organized religion. Each faith believes they are right or better than the other and it just turns my stomach.

I've always thought that God must sit up in heaven and just shake his head at mans utter stupidity.

I haven't been back to church since. Maybe one day, but truthfully it'll have to be a church where the people actually practice what they preach.

:eyes:

[cally]

17. The sad part for me is that I had gotten past your concerns

I have found churches who were so much more caring and loving than I am. They taught me, gave me strength, and helped me. I do believe in organized religion for that reason but to find a church that fits me is so hard.

[GreenPartyVoter]

23. Welcome to DU! *hugs*

[anarchy1999]

21. Peace can be found with the Mennonites and the Quakers.

They have many progressive orders and are peace oriented.

www.peacemennonite.org

www.traprockpeace.org

Peace be to us all.

[cally]

22. I've attended Quaker Churches, I love the faith

it just wasn't right for me.

[Abelman]

24. Hmmm

I think the two most important things about Christianity can be found in Jesus' teachings.

Mainly, the lilies of the field.

The lilies don't worry about the sunlight they are getting or the water, where they come from, where they are going. Neither should we worry about our origins and our ultimate ending. God has taken care of that for us already.

Most importantly is the commandment to "Love one Another." One another, I'm pretty sure, means everyone. Regardless of their sins. It's not up to us to judge them, simply to treat all with respect, kindness, and love.

The problem is, not enough churches stress this type of stuff.

[Liberal_Minded]

25. Do what?

"Not a Christian God but the God of the Universe"? Then you can't say that you are a "Christian". That's like me saying I am Catholic but I don't beleive in the Catholic GOD. Beleive me it's your church that is glad to see you go. God help ya.