Which Republican idea would you enthusiastically support?

[Rex_Goodheart]

I, for one, would heartily endorse a National Sales Tax.

As a managerial accountant who spent over 35% of my working time complying with IRS mandates I can see the giant waste that agency causes, and the enormous productivity gains that could be made by its abolition.

www.fairtax.org has a good plan.

[WLKjr]

1. What Republican Idea

Real Republicans are few and far between. Do you mean Ne0-C0ns?

[JohnKleeb]

2. Thats funny you say that

because my view would be to have a low or no sales tax but an increased income tax on the wealthiest 1% as a result.

[Vickers]

3. The one where they fund national health care

Yeah, that one.

:eyes:

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Pay as you go

Wait, fiscal responsibilty USED to be a Republican ideal

[leesa]

9. When was that? They have never been fiscally responsible

Review the fiscal records of Repub vs Dem. The Republicans simply call themselves fiscally responsible so they can slash gov. assistance programs while they scoop up the government pork for their rich friends.

Republican fiscal reponsibility is a MYTH.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. You did notice the tongue firmly implanted in cheek

didn't you?

:-)

As I said, they talk about it, but oops it has become a Democratic principle, one of those of.. actions speak louder than words.

;-)

[sangh0]

5. You must be a lousy accountant

if you can't look up the gross income on the chart.

The complexity with income taxes is determining income. Graduated tax rates have little to do with the complexity.

And that website is incredibly right-wing.

[sangh0]

12. Two weeks before the election, you get so excited

you sign up with DU to start a thread promoting a right-wing bugaboo?

And then you try to pass yourself of as an accountant who is an authority on how inefficient and wasteful the IRS is?

You do realize that the IRS is the MOST efficient agency in the world, don't you? No other organization takes in so much money while spending so little.

[sangh0]

15. Shouldn't your profile list your hobby as "Internets"?

.

[sangh0]

24. And look at all the lovely right-wing orgs that your website links to

at http://www.fairtax.org/links.asp?PageID=27

American Enterprise Institute
American Legislative Exchange Council
Atlas Economic Research Foundation
Brookings Institution
CATO Institute
Claremont Institute
Competitive Enterprise Institute
Heartland Institute
Heritage Foundation
Hoover Institute
Hudson Institute
James Madison Institute
Mackinac Center for Public Policy
Manhattan Institute
National Center for Policy Analysis
The National Center for Public Policy Research
Pacific Research Institute
Progress and Freedom Foundation
State Policy Network
National Retail Sales Tax Alliance (NRSTA) website
National Taxpayers Union
National Debt Awareness Center
Tax Foundation
Citizens for an Alternative Tax System
FreedomWorks
Americans for Tax Reform
Citizens Against Government Waste
National Small Business United
National Association of Manufacturers
National Federation of Independent Business
Small Business Survival Committee

[Rex_Goodheart]

32. sangho, I don't know what it is you're arguing about.

You're correct... the complexity of our income tax system is the measurement of income. The huge bureaucracy that is the IRS exists because the code that governs that measurement is complicated and extensive.

A national sales tax would eliminate almost all of that complexity. In fact, a management accountant's reporting responsibilities to the IRS would decrease dramatically. Instead, he'd be filling out sales tax reports, which can very easily be piggybacked onto existing state sales tax reports. It takes me about 15 minutes every month to do sales taxes, compared to endless hours to do annual Federal income taxes.

[tibbir]

47. You forget that there are people like me on a fixed income.

All of my income comes from Social Security Disability. It's not subject to income tax so I am exempt from the fair, progressive income tax. However, just about everything I receive is used up consuming things. An increase in the tax on consumables would be a very significant tax hike for me - and I barely get by as it is now. I am a retired CPA. I prepared both income tax and sales tax returns for my clients. It's NOT that hard if you have a basic knowledge of the law.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

62. Bullshit. A national sales tax would hit the poor the hardest

PRogressive taxation protects the poor.

And I agree with Sangho...it's pure crap that you register then push a right wing agenda here.

[recidivist]

51. Re: complexity and the need for reform.

I did my own income taxes for years. Then, a few years ago, I started doing some freelancing and, about the same time, adopted a child. I was knocked out of the do-it-yourself box immediately.

After skimming the mind-numbingly complex instructions, I gave up and turned it over to an accountant who promptly produced a 12 page return. Piece of cake for a professional, I guess. So now I spend $250 a year to save myself the headache.

Tax returns even for very small business can run into dozens of pages, and whole forests are felled for larger companies. This country now spends hundreds of billions every year on a massive tax preparation industry.

All this is, strictly speaking, pure waste. If we had a rational tax code, we could dispense with most of it. There are several ways to significantly simplify the tax code. All of them involve closing the special interest loopholes and, on the other hand, cutting the nominal rates. The more radical ones also propose eliminating double taxation and consolidating our multiple and overlapping tax systems (corporate income taxes, individual income taxes, property taxes, payroll taxes, etc.) into a unitary format. Worth doing, IMHO.

[Cleita]

6. Bad, bad, bad.

This is another tax on the working class that can only be justified if it only applies to Humvees and yachts.

We need to move toward taxing wealth, which we don't do seriously. The wealthy (meaning ownership) pay practically no taxes for the privilege.

Accountants, tell everyone the truth.

[mongo]

16. Sorry, but owning things is not a privilege in a capitalist society

I am all for taxing INCOME, but do you seriously want to tax wealth?

If I hit the lottery, and pay all my taxes like a good citizen when I aquire the income, do you want to then tax anything I save year after year?

I'm confused.

[Cleita]

27. I'm all for not taxing wages on anyone..

Interest income, rental income, or any kind of income that comes from investments should be taxed. Your lotto would be safe with me, except for maybe a 10% administration tax. :-). Wages should be taxed when the wage earner reaches the top third of the scale. There are not too many earners up there and you can be sure all these execy types will make sure their income falls under that figure.

This brings us up to those parachutey things and other perks executives have figured out on how to rob corporations of. They should be taxed at 75%. Oh, I can think of so many other ways to tax real wealth, not piddly stuff you are upset about, but not tonight :-)

[annabanana]

54. THERE ya go! That's the ticket!

I like it. If you actually WORK for it, you should keep it. (And I don't mean making phone calls and playing golf with your broker)

[mongo]

58. Sorry I didn't get a chance to respond - left work at midnight

Except for a few tax-exempt type bonds, interest income is already taxed the same as wages. Net rental income (income - expenses) is also taxed as ordinary income.

The only tax break is on capital gains, when you sell an asset for more than you paid for it.

To tax these types of income at a higher rate would discourage investment.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

64. Taxing the capital gains on what you save is just

The whole reason to HAVE progressive taxation is that if you USE that wealth to grow and support society and the economy, you get deductions or REWARDED for contributing to society...if you only live off your money and don't contribute to society, then yes, you pay a tax for NOT being productive.

[camero]

7. Here we go again.

I was wondering when this was coming. :eyes:

[sangh0]

8. You can set your clock to it

.

[camero]

42. The sad part is

This thread will have close to 200 replies before anyone gets wind of it.

[tishaLA]

50. It's been coming the last 36 hours

at least

[camero]

69. No doubt

How many republican ideas do we have to put up with?

[rwheeler31]

10. A balanced budget was a good idea where did that go?

nt

[Randi_Listener]

11. Here we go again

It's non stop.

ENOUGH!!

[mermaid]

13. I Am AGAINST A National Sales Tax

because it, like all sales taxes, are regressive, meaning that it hurts poor people more than rich people.
Unless you made all basic life necessities exempt from the National Sales Tax, I could not support such a plan.

Basic Life Necessities: Food (not restaurant food, i mean food you cook for yourself at home!! Restaurant food damn well ought to be taxed, since that is a luxury...), Clothing, Shelter (this includes heat in winter and/or A/C in summer for those who live in extreme climates), Education (I mean college here!! Private school for grades K-12 is also a luxury, and should be subject to the tax, as we have an adequate public school system,) Medical and Dental Care (this INCLUDES preventative medicine and hygiene products, like soap!!,) and reliable transportation to and from work (i.e. a normal family sedan should not be subject to such tax...but a fucking HUMMER damn well oughta be!!)
You get my drift....basically, what I am saying is that a National sales tax on LUXURY ITEMS is okay with me...but no on items one needs for basic survival...this should NOT be taxed. A new TV?? Not a life-necessary item...tax it! A new pair of jeans?? Clothing...life essential...do not tax it.
If the national sales tax was set up in this way, I could, perhaps, then support it.

[mongo]

22. Uh when you work 60-80 hours a week

Restaurant food is not a luxury. It is a necessity.

[mermaid]

29. Uh....

If there were no income tax, and the items you needed for survival were not taxed, you would not NEED to work 60-80 hours a week!!

[Rex_Goodheart]

30. visit fairtax.org

The fairtax plan exempts necessities by sending automatic rebate checks to everybody. Poor people who buy nothing BUT necessities would pay nothing at all.

[mermaid]

35. How About NOT TAXING THE FUCKING STUFF IN THE FIRST PLACE?!!?!?

FUCK REBATE CHECKS!!!

Survival items should NEVER BE TAXED IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!!

[tibbir]

48. How are the rebates received - is there paperwork required?

Who is responsible for filing for the rebate? If the purchaser is that would make it impossible for a lot of the people who deserve a tax break to get it because they wouldn't have the wherewithal to file for it. If the merchant is resquired to keep up with the paperwork for a rebate system that just adds another level of complexity and paperwork. Either way it doesn't make any sense.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

65. Fairtax.org is a rightwing site promoting other right wing sites.

Are you lost on the world wide web?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

67. Where will the homeless collect their rebate check?

[booley]

14. Fiscal responsiblity

When you ar ein debt, you need to cut back.
Unfortunatly it seems an idea that the republicans have abandoned.

And let me add another problem. Fiscal responsibility includes the MILITARY and CORPORATE WELFARE. Two blind spots the repubs always seem to have had.

I could probably think of a few others. ironicly a lot of republiucan ideas are good. But those came from peopel like TR, eisenhower and (weirdly) Nixon that became DEMOCRATIC Ideals (like Conservation, the EPA and government regulation of business ot prevent abuse). Now modern republicans seem intent on destroying the things thier party did right so they no longer count as REPUBLICAN IDEAS.

[blueknight]

17. that they all drink

some of jim jones kool aid

[whistle]

18. What rate would the national sales tax have to be to generate....

....sufficient revenues to balance the $2.6 trillion federal budget which Bush submitted? 10%? 15%? 20%? 25%? With a GDP of $11.5 trillion I suppose that number could be roughly calculated as 22.6% if every transaction that goes to make up the GDP is taxed. But I believe that there will be exemptions so if it is only consumption that is taxed, the figure may be closer to 50%, perhaps higher. No consumption, no tax you say. Well, you have to have shelter, will new homes be taxed? Will rent be taxed? Electricity? Fuel? Goods and services? What government services will be eliminated to reduce the federal budget? Department of Justice? FBI? CIA? Education? Social services? Transportation?

[Orangepeel]

19. how about less intrusive government?

one that doesn't peek into people's bedrooms, their uteruses or their computers.

Isn't that supposed to be a republican idea?

[Still_Notafraid]

20. I

Have never seen any Republican only idea i would ever support,to much social Darwinism in any Republican plan,another thing i have noticed with a lot of Republican plans is the hope factor.the hope it might work but if it doesn't we are screwed this might be needed in the business world but when it comes to people then thats a no go.

I don't think there is any problem with our current tax system other then to many tax loopholes and not near enough audits on the wealthy and giant corps cheating the IRS daily.we had a surplus under Clinton,i say if we have a surplus we are doing something right.

[sangh0]

23. Find me one thing they really believe in

beside themselves.

[mermaid]

28. Ok...

They believe in POWER. They believe in BIG BUSINESS and the wealthy. They believe in the exploitation of lower and middle class working Americans...

FUCK THE REPUBLICANS!!!

[JNelson6563]

52. Here you go

This should help you fully understand what Republicans believe in:

http://www.bushflash.com/ihr.html

:toast:

[NuttyFluffers]

25. yes, grinding to a crawl consumer based spending....

in a consumer based economy is a brilliant idea!! :eyes:

are there anymore winners in the GOP bag o' tricks? didn't think so...

[Rex_Goodheart]

34. NuttyFluffers, your objection doesn't make sense, frankly...

People would have more take home pay in their checks. Imagine your own check with no Federal tax deduction.

[NuttyFluffers]

36. ...and then everything you want to buy is now that much more $$

can't get away from it, taxes have to appear somewhere. the quantity has to be the same considering the *size* of our nation. and since the business of a consumer based economy is to keep the money flowing the last thing you want to do is front load the taxes onto the lynchpin of the supply/demand dynamic. it really isn't very hard to figure out. it also encourages black markets too.

look up the trends in tobacco recently in california and new york. there's plenty of more examples. we make money when money *flows*, not when it sits in our pocket at the end of a paycheck. so we want to keep sales tax low and keep unproductive passive income generation(aka usury, aka interest, aka "capital investment returns") in check. there's a reason all the abrahamic faiths found usury as a sin, ti's because the results always sucked socially, nationally, and economically in the long run.

[tibbir]

49. Yeah, give a break to people who are able to work

and earn significant income while increasing the tax on the things consumed by people who make little to no taxable income under the current system. That's fair - not!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

66. Yes imagine your grocery bill with federal taxes in it and try this

If you are among the lowest income earners, you end up paying MORE while if you are among the highest income earners, you end up paying BILLIONS less...wow...there's some parity for ya...

[Forkboy]

26. The only tax we should have is a toilet paper tax

[troubleinwinter]

33. I have big problem with Toilet Paper Tax.

It is slanted against one particular gender. Unfair. Try another one.

[Forkboy]

38. Trust me,when guys wipe their ass the make up for the difference

:D

[mermaid]

39. I Disagree!!

Girls wipe THEIR asses, too, you know...and we also gotta wipe when we do number one. Y'all guys just shake off and go. We girls can't just shake off. We gotta wipe. So we use more toilet paper than you do.

[Forkboy]

40. no no no

when we wipe our asses we use twice as much....most men are scrunchers and use big globs of tp.

Or so I've heard :)

[troubleinwinter]

68. Thought dudes used the sports pages?

I always find the sports section in the bathroom. ????

[Nordic]

31. how 'bout the one where they take baseball bats to liberals?

Is that a good republican idea? Ann Coulter thinks it is.

How about the Republican idea that we should ridicule those who want clean water, clean air, and to slow the extinction of species on the planet?

Is that a good republican idea?

There are NO good republican ideas.

Nada.

The only good republican idea is for them all to drown themselves, en masse, in a rock quarry.

[mermaid]

37. Ah, Screw That...

Not enough suffering in them drowning themselves in a rock quarry!! Thier crimes against humanity deserve a punishment with far more suffering than drowning in a rock quarry would provide!

[Nordic]

44. yeah, let them all torture each other in Abu Ghraib

there's a nice little hell on earth they'd deserve

[Heyo]

41. You mean current ideas? Or in general..?

Just one off the top of my head, I support school vouchers..

Heyo

[camero]

43. Have a drink

[Starlight]

45. "Fair tax"? Is that like Bush's "clear skies" & "healthy forests"?

Yeah, I thought so. :eyes:

Flat taxes & sales taxes always favor the rich. I definitely do *not* support them.

[Bridget Burke]

46. I support no Republican ideas.

The National Sales Tax is an especially bad one. Refer to the last 5,000 threads on the subject.

This is Democratic Underground.

[sweetheart]

53. Reform of the tax laws is in the interests of all americans

The DU response to national sales tax is that it is "regressive
taxation", that shifts even more tax burden on to the poor who do
the most consuming.

I believe, however, that such a tax can be implemented to be
"progressive", by completely computerizing the whole tax system
and going "paperless".

Then i support the progressive sales tax, as a direct computerized
deduction from all payments wired straight to the IRS. The savings
would eliminate the need for tax compliance, the tax courts and
a tremendous load of overhead and ambiguity that stifles development.

In my vision of it, there would be a single system like "peoplesoft
financials" running in the treasury, that replaced the social
security system and the IRS systems. This "primary" data system
would be connected to all payment networks and get real-time tax
deducations from every payment made, based on the item purchased,
and the social security number of the purchaser at the point of sale.
(from the payment account). Even salaries would be so taxed, as
well as all payments in businesses, a giant 100% applicable variable
transaction tax.

In short, i could develop a tax system that would save americans
billions of dollars, whilst providing a more progressive lightweight
"clear" framework than is running today. (by taxing salaries,
the income tax porton would still exist, but as a flat tax on the
payment). As well, i would include that flat tax on capital
purchases like stock market and foreign exchange, to get the
capital markets aligned with long term thinking, that buying/selling
stocks for 4 hours is not adding value, despite the hogwash
theories that stock exchanges have fantisized.

Bottom line, mate, this is DU, and with the election so near,
this issue is percieved as supporting republicanism, even if it is
not.... as everyone here is extremely partisan and any joining
with the enemy contributes towards fascism. In that regard,
perhaps its best to discuss this after nov 3.

[AmerDem]

55. strange question from a new poster

The repukes have NO idea I would enthusiastically support!

[Hubert Flottz]

56. Less government involvement in our personal lives!

They talk the talk, but the "Patriot Acts" I and II prove that they don't walk the walk!

Why do they need to know what I read?

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

57. None of them.

ESPECIALLY that "National Sales Tax" CRAP.

[bunkerbuster1]

59. I like the End Times

Only it's the damn nazi reThugs that all go down in a fiery, hellish blaze, and we Libruhls is SAVED!

j/k, all their ideas fundamentally suck elephant hemmeroids.

[MisterP]

60. not one world-destroying thing

[mccormack98]

61. The idea that Republicans should resign en masse ...

[Cat Atomic]

63. I support their idea of a rapture, where they all get whisked away

to Lala Land. I assume I'll be staying here, of course.

[w4rma]

70. A sales tax discourages American spending and selling to Americans.

It creates a huge burdon on small buisnesses, by raising their prices.

[AntiFascist]

71. I'm beginning to think off-shore tax shelters might be good.....

at least tax moneys won't be going towards death, fascism, and corporate welfare.

[LibertyorDeath]

72. Mass ritualistic suicide they are a cult after all so it's only a

matter of time before this comes up & I'm all for it.

[drdtroit]

73. A national sales tax

only fucks the poor in the exact same spot the (p)Resident likes to keep his head!