Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Don't Change Horses in the Middle of the Stream

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
louis c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 10:11 PM
Original message
Don't Change Horses in the Middle of the Stream
This is the mantra we here from so many. Then they go on to say that "No incumbent President has lost re-election in time of war". Here are the facts, and a very interesting observation that came to me as I was attempting to sleep.

Every incumbent President has either been forced from office or failed to complete his term in time of war. Amazing, but true.

The election of 1864 (Civil War)- Lincoln is Re-elected, but assassinated just a month after his inauguration to a second term.

The Election of 1900 (Spanish American War)- William McKinley is Re-Elected but assassinated before he can complete his second term.

World War I- The election of 1916 has incumbent President Woodrow Wilson promising to actually keep us out of the Great War in Europe. He was re-elected, but later committed our boys to that war. Even though he was eligible to run in 1920, failing health and his unpopularity left that to the Republicans.

Franklin Roosevelt (WWII)- Franklin Roosevelt ran and won in the election of 1944, during the final days of WWII. In his four years in office, this was his closest contest. Just months after his fourth inauguration, Roosevelt died of natural causes.

The Election of 1952 (The Korean War)- Harry Truman, who was President at the start of the Korean War was still eligible to run for re-election in 1952. Every poll showed that he had no chance of victory, with a popularity of less than 39%. Eisenhower won in a landslide, and the party in power was dumped.

The Election of 1968 (The Viet-Nam War)- Lyndon Johnson, who won the 1964 election in a landslide, couldn't answer the bell after the first round in losing the primary in New Hampshire to an unknown Senator from Minnesota. All observers of that period are convinced that the anti-war candidate, Bobby Kennedy, would have trounced Nixon in that Election had he not been killed. Humphrey, the VP, is defeated because he is associated with that war.

The Election of 1972 (The Viet-Nam War)- Nixon, the incumbent, wins a landslide in a still controversial election. Before his term is half over, both his VP, Agnew, and himself have to resign in disgrace.

The Election of 1980 (The Iran Hostage Crisis)- Maybe I'm stretching it here, this was not a real war. However, the conflict did nothing to prevent Carter from suffering a landslide defeat.

The Election of 1992 (Gulf War I)- George HW Bush suffers a defeat. However, this is another stretch in that that war had ended about a year before that election.

The point is that we have changed horses in time of conflict. In 1945, with Roosevelt's death. In 1952, when Truman chose not to run for re-election. In 1968, when LBJ was forced by the electorate to call it quits. Again in 1974, when Nixon resigned in disgrace.

Some of what transpired is certainly coincidence, others as a result of the war (Lincoln), and still others as a result of popular opinion (Truman, Johnson, Nixon's resignation). But the bottom line is, our Presidents have not fared well as a result of war, contrary to those who seem to claim otherwise.




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Lefta Dissenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. and you don't hire the arsonist
to be the fire chief.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ms. Toad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. Yes, but when the pitcher gets in trouble,
You yank him. No one says, "Don't change the pitcher mid-game"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-04 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #2
31. THIS is a VERY good response to that claim.
Excellent metaphor to turn on a former baseball team co-owner...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. Even if the horse is drowning?!
bush is afraid of horses and Kerry is the Stallion!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
louis c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. My point is that
We have always changed horses in the middle of the stream, for one reason or another.

Didn't I make my point clear enough?

Maybe I'm still half asleep.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. I thought you made your point quite clear.
I was thinking the same. This horse has to be changed or we will end up in a bad place.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. I was just agreeing with you..
Good Point!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ladybugg33 Donating Member (387 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Don't change,,,just jump off and swim for yourself.
If Bush were a horse, maybe I wouldn't change. But he isn't a horse and I'm changing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
5. if the stream is flooding, get a taller horse
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
louis c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. The fact is that we have often changed horses
and in every case, very bad things have happened to all of them.

Death, Defeat, or Disgrace. All in the term following the War.

I know many here love Truman, and so do I. However during that time he was the most unpopular sitting President, only to be eclipsed by Nixon.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ParanoidPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-04 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #5
24. Wouldn't that be a 'higher horse' in his case?
Edited on Fri Oct-15-04 01:55 AM by ParanoidPat
:evilgrin:

You don't change horses mid stream or ride one across an ocean,
and if you can't tell the difference you shouldn't be on one in the first place!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
7. Has anyone told chimpy this?
Maybe he'll voluntarily decide to quit. I don't think he really likes the job anyway.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
louis c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Well, at least you get my point.
The history lesson actually is meant to disprove the title.

Maybe that's where I went wrong
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Indiana_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Hey it's pretty good info for that line---
people at work have often given me this line.

Can I have your permission to post this to another board?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
louis c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I would be honored
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Indiana_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Thank you! eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
louis c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-04 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #7
27. Kick for AM
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
12. "Don't change horsemen in the middle of an Apocalypse?"
:evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sugarbleus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Your line is my favorite! eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MidwestTransplant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
13. Don't change horsemen in the middle of the appocalypse
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
16. You made your point well. You should know that

replies at DU tend to take the starting post as a mere jumping off point. ;-)

Just yesterday, I was thinking about Jimmy Carter and how he was excoriated for failing to get our hostages out of Iran. Now we see Americans and people of other nationalities being kidnapped and ultimately beheaded -- shouldn't everyone be furious with Bush*?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
louis c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-04 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #16
33. Kick for After Supper
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zinfandel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
17. As JT said, what if the horse can't swim, or is stupid or has broken legs.
Edited on Thu Oct-14-04 10:39 PM by Zinfandel
or a horse that refuses to go the correct way, or makes destructive decisions???
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
louis c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. My analysis
means the opposite of the headline. It's satire.

Get it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zinfandel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-04 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Mine was made out of anger!!! GET IT????
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-04 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
22. That is the mantra of the truly deperate who deep in their shriveled...
little hearts know that the fraud is indefensible. Desperate and pathetic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RedEagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-04 01:38 AM
Response to Original message
23. Bush isn't the horse
If the horse is supposed to be the analogy for Bush, i.e., don't change leaders, it's the wrong analogy.

A cow maybe, a little, short, mooing cow.

When the river rises and the current threatens to sweep us away, time to change to a real horse. Herd that cow right back to the pen where it belongs.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
louis c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-04 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. kick for coffeee break
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Barney Rocks Donating Member (746 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-04 03:19 AM
Response to Original message
25. this is very interesting!
giving it a kick!

:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
coreystone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-04 05:20 AM
Response to Original message
26. When The "stream" is yellow, and "stenches", then...
it is time to install a new stallion!:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Trailrider1951 Donating Member (933 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-04 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
28. LOL, this reminds me of an unofficial campaign slogan of
the 1972 election:

"Dick Nixon in '72. Don't change dicks in the middle of a screw!"
:evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-04 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
30. No "horse" can be in the "stream" for more than 10 years anyway.
The system is set up to FORCE a change regardless of the situation, so unless people want bush* forever, what the fuck are they thinking?

I happen to believe the metaphor is backwards anyways; The Horse is America, the stream is the President, the way to "change" the horse is to find a DIFFERENT STREAM!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-04 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
32. The terrorists have been after the US for 30 yrs.
This latest round started after Bush I & Co liberated the Kuwaiti Royal Family, and Clinton kept them mostly at bay during his tenure.

We "changed horses" with to 2000 coup, and duhbya took his eyes off the ball to concentrate on fellating his corporate masters. The direct result was Sept 11. Its time we gave the reigns back to the competent people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed May 08th 2024, 06:15 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC