Any fundies for Kerry here?

[leftofthedial]

fundamentalist Christian who supports Kerry?

if so, check in and explain yourself!

[friesianrider]

1. My best friend is...and her Dad too...who's a MINISTER! :)

They're hard-core Christians and even more hard-core Kerry supporters ;) Way cool people.

[yellowdawgdem]

2. I'm a lefty, pretty far away from being a fundie

but I share your interest in what the fundies are thinking about these days. I sometimes read free fundie rags that are lying about, just to get their opinions. The ones I've read are brimming with articles about Kerry and Bush, and they are very stern toward Kerry on his pro-choice stance. And accuse him of putting it on to seem more religious than he really is. But, and this shocked me, they also presented another side of christian thinking. Some of that thinking is less restrictive, that they think it would be a good idea to reach out to democrats, because many democrats are actually pro-life. And, one minister even said that he was supporting Kerry in spite of the 'evil' of abortion, because he said that there are many evils in the world, and it is not good to only focus on 1. He said that destroying the environment is an evil, too. Also, they spent a lot of time talking about Teresa Kerry, and comparing her unfavorably to Laura. They said that Laura was a true lady, she comported herself with dignity. And they mentioned that Teresa recently said that "4 more years of this administration would be 4 years of hell." And they said how John can only excuse her so many times, and that she was not acting as composed as Laura- and, they said she would be an embarrassment to John, etc etc. But then, they mentioned the fact that some of their members have said they wished they could have John Kerry for president, and Laura Bush as first lady. So even on this point, it seemed as though some intelligent Christian thinkers preferred Kerry.

[leftofthedial]

3. interesting. thanks for sharing

it seems to me that fundie Christianity and support for Kerry are 100% incompatible.

You highlighted abortion as a dividing issue

And you highlighted the behavior of the woman as a dividing issue

Do you think there are others?

[yellowdawgdem]

5. maybe 90% incompatible

But perhaps I am not up on the differences between Christian and fundie. I think of fundie as being the extreme end of Christian- rule-driven, strict interpretation of the bible. Hell and brimstone for those who do not follow the bible exactly as written.
And Christian being an acceptance of Jesus as the son of god, plus a belief in and somewhat strict interpretation of the bible, with exceptions made for good sense. I would be interested in hearing other people's definitions, as I consider mine are probably overly simplistic.
Within the rag I read were both fundamentalist and less rigid Christian viewpoints. Perhaps the fundie's were most favorable towards Bush, and the most critical of Kerry- stating that he could not even be considered a true catholic, as he did not follow the exact rules in that religion either.
It seemed as if they judged him based on their own rules, and he was not seen as trustworthy. Even mentioning his religion at all was seen as a political ploy.
But others said that they do not think that Mr. Bush is a genuine Christian- that he talks the talk, but does not walk the walk. So it seems as if his behavior is perceived as lacking in kindness or thoughtfulness. In other words, that people were struggling with what is true meaning versus what is established as true by rule/ scripture, etc.
I am frequently shocked by the number of people I know whom I don't think of as particularly fundie- maybe funny, but who will quote scripture- and support Bush as being of that same cloth.

[myopic4141]

22. Not limited to Christians.

To me, Fundies are those who rigidly follow any religion or philosophy. Individuals incapable of independent thought or intellectual growth. They are locked into a tunnel vision view of the universe not accepting anything outside of their core beliefs. All contradictions are to be discarded regardless of the convoluted logic required to do so. Purveyors of absolute truth leading to an inability to compromise for fear that the truth is not as absolute as professed. Religious people who are not people of faith for in the end, they do not follow the precepts of their beliefs; but, readily dispose of those precepts for the sake of expediency while claiming that they must do so to preserve their core beliefs. As a result, they are individuals of continuing contradiction. With their being such, is it not any wonder why they follow Bush so religiously for he is the epitome of their ilk.

[vetwife]

4. I am not a fundie but a christian and YES I AM FOR KERRY !

check this out....
http://groups.msn.com/PrayforKerry/

I guess I don't have to explain anything, just about everyone on here knows me and what I stand for and I sure work pretty hard for veterans and equal justice and feeding the poor and..well you know all the liberal things Jesus believed in.

One cannot legislate morality or their beliefs. If one thinks one thing is right, then the other person finds it wrong. Faith is a personal thing and the government does not need to be involved with a woman and her doctor. That decision of abortion should be between the woman the doctor and God. I don't want my tax dollars going for bombs. This is brought up a lot. They say "I don't want to fund abortion. " Well I don't want to fund bombs.
What I believe is my business on abortion, which I do should be available as whent he Mother's health is at risk or rape and incest. I do believe as always women will use coat hangers or take a fall if they don't want a child. The rich have always had the option of leaving the country to have planned parenthood. I believe God gave us Free will and the government cannot legislate what they believe is right or wrong for individuals. Anything one personally does not believe in, is a cult to them, generally speaking for Those who have no tolerance for other beliefs.

[leftofthedial]

8. bless you for your support of veterans

and your humane ideals.

[vetwife]

13. Thanks left of thedial ...Its just what I feel I have to do

There are many many out there like me and on this board I might add. We all have our passions.

[bryant69]

6. I don't know what fundementalist Christian means

I go to church every week, participate regularly and teach Sunday School, and I support Kerry.

It'd be good to have a definition of what a Fundamentalist is.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[leftofthedial]

9. to tell you the truth, I'm not sure

maybe "militantly dogmatic" would be a better description. Or "Old Testament" Christian.

It just seems to me that there are some self-professed Christians who exhibit nothing of the character or the teachings of Jesus. They also seem bent on killing or subjugating anyone who does not share their specific narrow dogma.

[Kanary]

7. It's quite difficult to reconcile war with "Thou shalt not kill"

So, I doubt many will show up here to "explain themselves"

Explaining *anything* is not their strong suit.

Demanding compliance, as is true of all authoritarian personalities, is their M.O.

Kanary

[leftofthedial]

10. that's my experience

an utter lack of curiosity
an equal lack of empathy
an aggressive pursuit of ignorance
a militant willingness to confront and conflict

an irrational inability to apply reason to their own experience if their experience contradicts their dogma or their adherence to authoritarian dogma.

[passthecorn]

11. Explain yourself??

I'm not a big fan of that wording, but I will assume the most liberal interpretation of that phrase.

Also, true fundamentalism is all but dead. But using the "pop" definition of that word, I would qualify.

My problem with both parties as they stand today is that, there is no party for the complete pro-life view:

abortion
war
death penalty

Kerry, like Bush, has assured as that he will hunt down and kill the terrorists, and while death penalty has not been in play this election cycle, coming from Ark, Clinton was pro-death penalty.

So "Fundys" such as myself, find no party that supports these positions so they are drawn to the party that supports what most feel is the most important of the three, the protection of an innocent life, abortion.

I have advocated off and on on this board, that Fundy's could be persuaded if the tent were opened a little on this issue, but I'm sure you have been a part of abortion threads enough on this board, to know that is unlikely.

So, I find myself liberal in a lot of areas, like war and death penalty, but there is no home in the two major parties. I believe in the compassion of the Dem party, but not in the resent/hate the rich kind of way that it comes across.

Also, you don't have to read too many religion threads here to feel mocked and reviled.

So, in truth, I am more apathetic, than pro-Bush or pro-Kerry.

A man without a home,
PTC

[RaleighNCDUer]

12. So how would you define a "true fundamentalist"? As compared

to the "pop" definition?

One of the biggest problems in America today is large parts of the population speak with different vocabularies than other parts.

Fundamentalism, as I understand it, means a literalist belief in the holy books, i.e., if Joshua stopped the sun in the sky, he stopped the sun in the sky, despite all we know about modern cosmology and physics.

It seems to me that if "true fundamentalist" harkens back to primitive Christianity, it would include the Jewish tradition of interpretation of the holy texts, rather than the current idea of a 'set in stone' literalist reading.

By Jewish tradition, the holy books are themselves inerrant, but must be studied to derive all the possible interpretations.

What are your definitions?

[Kanary]

14. NO

[yellowdawgdem]

18. you say that if the tent were opened

a little, Fundies could be persuaded. What would that mean, exactly? And btw, what is the 'pop' definition of fundamentalist, just curious.

[lurkerguy]

38. Let me say that in no way do I support the current war but…

First, I am a Christian and I can’t stand Bush.

Yes, “Thou shalt not kill” is most definitely a commandment. The context however is murder. By no means does the Bible say not to defend yourself.

“You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also….” Does that mean that we are to be defenseless and victims of crime? Absolutely not! Here Jesus is talking about religious persecution. If you are being persecuted for your beliefs THEN you turn the other cheek. We can have a better understanding of the above verse b/c just a few verses later He says to, “Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." So clearly the verse “turn the other cheek” is speaking about religious persecution, not in defense matters regarding the law.

Read Luke 11:21, “When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace." No turn the other cheek for those who seek to break the law here. So, without getting into a long dissertation, that IMHO is what the Bible has to say about matters of defense vs. matters of persecution. IMO, as a Christian war can only be justified when it is sincerely a matter of defense.

Again, I don’t say this to mean that this war was justified in any way. I am just trying to spread a little more understanding of the scripture by explaining some verses that when taken out of context seem to contradict one another.

[shawn703]

15. I am one

What's to explain? I just don't drink the Kool-Aid handed out by Falwell and the like.

[yellowdawgdem]

17. Well, can you explain a little about yourself

like what makes you a fundie, and how you define the term?
are there several or few viewpoints within your community?

[shawn703]

21. Well, what makes me a fundamentalist

Is that I am a born-again believer in Jesus Christ. I believe the Bible is the divinely inspired and inerrant Word of God. I also attend a Southern Baptist Church, probably the denomination most associated with Christian Fundamentalism.

As far as viewpoints, some of mine obviously differ from many of the people considered to be fundamentalists. While I believe the Bible is inerrant, I don't necessarily believe the human interpretation of Scripture is always so. For example, most people in my denomination would argue that there will be a pre-tribulation rapture, although I think now that the Bible does not support that belief. I also don't believe the Bible considers abortion to be the same as murder. Nor do I believe Jesus would be happy to see the richest 1% of the taxpayers get a big majority of the tax cut.

[leftofthedial]

23. cool and well said

Do you get pressure from your fellow congregationalists or from the preacher?

[shawn703]

28. Not really, surprisingly

Our preacher does bring up his views during the sermons once in a while - but that's not really a forum for discussion. He does actually say that he voted for Carter against Reagan because of Carter's religious beliefs, so he probably would be considered an Independent. Politics doesn't come up a whole lot at our congregation, except for from a very few people. There's one guy in my Sunday School class that does spew a bunch of that Republican trash in class. He once said that God was punishing the Democrats in Florida for trying to steal the election in 2000, because all the Democratic counties were being hit by the hurricanes. I told him the map I saw showed that actually the opposite had happened (although I did know that that map has been debunked by that time.)

[leftofthedial]

29. what part of the country do you live in?

[shawn703]

30. Northern Virginia n/t

[leftofthedial]

32. that's suprising to me

perhaps it's a stereotype, and I apologize if it is, but

Northern Virginia is pretty conservative, even reactionary.

Southern Baptists are a pretty hardcore right wing Christian denomination.

I would have thought they'd serve the Kool Aid at communion and would pass out voting guides every Sunday.

[shawn703]

33. Well Northern Virginia

Is getting a bit better I think, a lot of people from up north are moving here (I am one of them, coming from Michigan about five years ago.) I think it's one of the reasons Virginia went from a sure thing for Bush to being considered a swing state that could go to a Democrat for the first time in about forty years.

What you said about Southern Baptists is pretty much true though, for the most part - though there are many of us who don't drink the Kool-Aid ;)

[leftofthedial]

34. best of luck

if you ever find yourself pressured or wavering, you have friends here to talk you into putting down the Kool Aid mug!

[yellowdawgdem]

35. I'm glad that you are not drinking the koolaide.

Also, are you saying that being a born-again christian is the main part of what a fundie is? Or is it considering the scripture inerrant? I fully agree that human interpretation is no way a pure interpretation- of anything. It's really heartening that you can give yourself to the original Jesus, who was the genuine article- yet
still have some wriggle room in there. btw, what is the pre-tribulation rapture? Ive heard that bantered around, and never really knew what it meant.

[shawn703]

36. There may be other characteristics too

But I'm sure those two are definitely part of being a fundamentalist.

The pre-trib rapture is what happens in that book Left Behind. Supposedly, before the seven year tribulation begins, Jesus will gather up all of his believers in the clouds to take them away and save them from the coming horrors and persecution. Cars will crash, planes will fall out of the sky, etc.

[yellowdawgdem]

42. thanks for the explanation

The thing that makes most sense to me of everything is that if one is opposed to all killing, that would include war and death penalty, not just abortion. And that would not incude pre emptive strikes, or inhumane treatment of prisoners. And it would also not include the taking away of civil liberties, as this contributes to hurting (or killing) people.
To me, Bush is not a real christian, let alone a fundamentalist, though he professes both.
I can understand why abortion is a volatile and polarizing topic, it makes sense that it would be. I am pro-choice and think the mother should make the decision. It's not that it would be an easy decision, just that the mother, the one who will be responsible for that child, needs to decide. Because it is far worse to bring a child into the world if they will not be cared for, or will have a high degree of suffering- than to abort at a point in time when there is no pain involved. I guess, again, it comes down to abstract versus practical reality, and how that plays out.

[Red State Rebel]

41. Ditto - except the church

We are from a charismatic evangelical church.

I believe what you do is more important than what you say. Judging people and labeling them for the purpose of putting them down is wrong.

"Let your light shine before men that they might see your good works and thus praise your father in heaven"

[murielm99]

37. My parents are fundies, too, and Democrats.

I don't understand some of the stuff they believe. It is much too extreme for me.

But they lived through the Depression, and understand that working people need unions. My dad is a retired union man.

I think they take seriously what Jesus said about helping the poor.

[Quinto]

16. not

me

[OutsourceBush]

19. Ed Shultz has it right

Gay, Guns and God.. The wedge issues. (including abortion)

Dems have allowed the Republicans to paint all Dems as homosexual communist lovers, soft on crime and terrorists, trying to turn hetero kids into homosexuals in grade schools, blah, blah.

Until the Dems can better get control of these wedge issues the immoral minority will continue to win the weak minds on these issues.

[prairie populist]

20. RE fundies for Kerry

A woman I work with, who has been a lifelong Republican and still considers herself to be a fundamentalist Christian, re-registered as a Democrat last week. I think the war in Iraq put her over the edge. That and the fact that last year she discovered her Evangelical Christian minister husband, who had mandated she vote Republican in the past, was frequenting strip joints and sleeping with hookers. He is now her ex-husband.

[leftofthedial]

24. there are no atheists in foxholes

and no fundies in adulterous relationships?

[newyawker99]

40. Hi prairie populist!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[mitchum]

25. I was a snakehandler this summer...

Okay, okay...so I was working in a nature center

[leftofthedial]

31. praise the lord and pass me a viper

I speak in tongues

when I've been drinking

[Technowitch]

26. Do 'Fundamentalist Wiccans' count?

*grins*

Oh, right, ain't no such thing. ;)

[OutsourceBush]

27. Think of it as a Genre

There are certain people who make money off of the far right genre. These people are usually charismatic types that would do well selling just about anything. Somewhere along the line these charismatic salesmen (Bush family for instance) found that right wing Christians were easy targets.

Most of them don't live the genre, they just pretend and tell the genre exactly what they want to hear, whether is is preaching, music, or politics. They sell to the idiots by telling them what they want to hear, the idiots are so desperate for validation that they then support these people who are ripping them off.

[leftofthedial]

39. snake oil salesmen

except the marks already demand snake oil

[LanternWaste]

43. Yup

Yup. :)

I believe two tenets of Christianity walk hand in hand with the Democratic platform: Stewarship (Environmentalism) and a unit of Charity (the Social and Economic netting proposed and instituted by Roosevelt and strengthened by Johnson).

These two particular mores can be instituted more effectively and more efficiently if the responsibility is shared by the government rather than simply based on individual initiative.

(Read your post and responded prior to reading through the responses. Hopefully I'm not wading into a sticky wicket on this one...)

On Edit: Read through a few reponses and I see that the vernacular definition of Fundamentalist is being used rather than the classical definiton (A Christian who holds five basic truths re: Christianity as absolute). So I may not be a "fundie" in your worldview; no matter... I am in mine :)