Am I in the wrong place? re: GD

[nomaco-10]

I found this board several weeks ago, lurked awhile and registered. I got on this morning and there was a thread catching fire about the bush involvement in the terror attacks on the WTC. It was in poll form and offered 7 or 8 choices, when I left here a little later, it was overwhelming that most who voted thought that bush an co. were not only directly involved, but had full knowledge and sanctioned the attacks in advance. I am well aware of how evil and corrupt bush is, but I'm sorry I just can't go there. As much as I despise him, I can't embrace that theory. BTW, the thread is gone this evening, it must have gotten deleted sometime late this afternoon. When I left around 2:30 CST there were approximately 280 votes cast running 5 to 1 (5-being bush was directly involved and sanctioned the attacks) to (1-bush is a clueless, apathetic idiot). I like Kucinich, flipped over to Kerry, thinking he would be more electable (the anybody but bush syndrome) and am now an avid Dean supporter. My question is, am I too "mainstream" for this site?

[Darranar]

1. No...

there are others like you. Not everyone here believes that Bush caused Sept. 11th. As long as you're a liberal progressive, this board is likely right for you.

[Cronus Protagonist]

2. The more you know....

A lot of us have been here for a long time and have looked into the LIHOP situation from many angles for years. It's almost impossible to come to any conclusion less than LIHOP, at the minimum and MIHOP seems very likely, given the overwhelming evidence indicating a brash and blatant cover up by the Bush administration.

Stick with us. You'll learn more the longer you hang around. And we ARE mainstream - it's the fascists in power right now who are radicals.


Fair & Balanced Buttons — The Cronus Connection

[Clete]

3. You can be any stream for this site

except right wing stream. Stick around, you will find it worthwhile in spite of the concepts you don't accept.

[Alenne]

4. We don't all have the same opinion on everything.

[VermontDem2004]

5. I am not sure

9/11 was the best thing that ever happened for Bush politically, I recall in an interview before the election, Cheney said in order to get public support for a war in Iraq, you would need a Pearl Harbor type of attack. I think Bush had knowledge and let it happen, alot of this feeling has alot to do with how he reacted when he was told while reading a book in a school in Florida. He later said that he seen the first plane crash on TV and he said he thought it was a really bad pilot, the problem with that is on that day, there was no footage of the first plane going into the tower. I don't have any links to back this up, but I can assure you this is the absolute truth.

[WillyT]

9. VD !!! --- Are You Being Sarcastic, You Scoundrel You???

:eyes:

[AntiCoup2K4]

23. A slight correction...

It wasn't Cheney himself who made the "Pearl Harbor" comment. That was a direct quote from a PNAC paper written in 1997. The same one that specifically mentions Iraq, Iran, and North Korea as obstacles to their blueprint of a global fascist state, er uh "democracy".

As for Junior saying that he watched the first plane hit the WTC live on television, indeed he did say that. It was in a speech given in Florida in December of 2001, the transcript of which, believe it or not, was actually posted on the official White House website for well over a year. It was gone more recently. Odds are somebody read it and realized that Shrub incriminated himself. Because the only camera that would have caught that plane crash would be one that was placed there knowing it would happen. And for that feed to be available to Junior's limo, it would either have to be a public sattelite news feed - of which there were none until after the first plane hit - or a closed circuit feed sent directly to him by a government agency, i.e. the CIA.

[WilliamPitt]

6. No such thing as 'mainstream' on this site

Let me tell you a story, just one of a hundred stories, about that dark day we know as September 11.

First, though, let me tell you about Payne Stewart. Payne Stewart was a professional golfer, much admired and respected in his sport. One day, Stewart boarded a chartered jet and took off into the skies. He took off, in fact, at 9:19 in the morning. This fact is important, because not long after, the air traffic controllers stopped getting responses to their radio contacts with his plane. As a matter of common policy, and without consulting the President of the United States, the air traffic controller called the US military to tell them something had gone wrong with a plane in the air.

21 minutes after Stewart’s plane first lost contact, an F-16 fighter aircraft came up behind it and did a visual inspection. As we now know, everyone aboard that plane, sadly, died because the cabin suffered explosive decompression. The plane, still on auto-pilot, flew on until it crashed. The fighter was there so quickly in case the plane started to dive into residential or urban areas, at which point the fighter would have shot it down.

Why is this important?

Because the first hijacked aircraft on September 11 took off at 7:45am from Boston, followed quickly by the second. They were soon joined by two more rogue aircraft. It was a full hour before that first plane struck the World Trade Center, and another 20 minutes after that before the second plane struck. The third and fourth planes continued to fly on. One struck the Pentagon, and another augered into the ground in Pennsylvania.

For nearly two hours, these planes cut the skies above America, and in those nearly two hours, not one fighter aircraft engaged them in any way. Andrews Air Force Base is 12 miles from the White House, and on 9/11 played host to a fighter squadron of F-16s as well as a fighter squadron of FA-18s. Andrews is one of many, many fighter bases along the Eastern seaboard. Not one fighter, not one, turned a wheel until the catastrophe had already run its course, after the entire world knew we were the victims of ‘terrorism.’

Payne Stewart merited a fighter escort in 21 minutes. Four massive commercial planes filled with humanity, seeking to strike against more humanity, got nothing in the way of military attention for almost 120 minutes. A miracle. The terrorists were so clever that they managed to ghost, for almost two hours, through the most formidable air defense system in the history of the universe.

The official narrative on this chalks this dizzying failure up to incompetence, and nothing of it has ever been discussed in the mainstream media. Now, when I screw up so badly that thousands of people get killed, I’d expect to be fired or demoted or at least reprimanded. No one has been fired for this incompetence. No one has been demoted. No one has been reprimanded.

No one, but no one, but no one, as asked in public how this could have happened. We’ve been talking about fear. I think you should fear the answer to that question, one of dozens of unanswered questions regarding that day. Fear that answer, because if and when you get it, you will come face to face with an American darkness as empty as George Bush’s face the moment he was ‘told’ what was happening.

So...am I mainstream? I gave that text as a speech to about 10,000 people in Seattle last week. Are they mainstream?

Welcome to DU.

[SnohoDem]

11. Damn, Will!

I'm sorry I missed the speech. That last line about darkness is awesome!

[qanda]

13. Will, the facts regarding Payne Stewart's plane...

are the facts that I just cannot get out of my mind when I think about 911. That question haunted me right after 911 and it's the one question that led me to search for other explanations for what happened on that terrible day. It's not easy to question the official story of what happened on 911, but we have to question it because those who should be questioning it, for some unknown reason, won't question it.

I think the only reason the conspiracy theories are all over the map is because many people know that something is not right about what we've been told about 911 and so we're forced to come up with our own explanations.

[WilliamPitt]

14. That's

why I brought it up. Something is out of joint.

[LearnedHand]

38. And because everytime anyone asks a single question...

...about that day, he or she is immediately accused of being a "terrorist sympathizer." In the face of all the non-information, of all the unanswered questions, it's no wonder we come up with theories that range from the benign to the truly tinfoil hat variety!

[Nazgul35]

16. the shortness of time for response in the Payne Stewart tragedy...

was due to the fighter jets already being airborne at the time...the NTSB report make notice of the plane being vectored and I remember at the time (as I was living in Orlando and it was BIG news) that the jets were already airborne....

But that does not explain why it took so long...but if the FAA didn't notify the appropriate military agencies, as seems to be the official report, than this would have further delayed the response...it is interesting that the jets sent were those al;ready airborn over Ohio...

But still more needs to been investigated along this line and heads hsould roll....but I too stop short of suggesting that the Bush admin allowed the attacks to go ahead...I believe it was rank incompetence...

[stickdog]

24. More on 9/11 Planes

On any morning of any given weekday on the Eastern seaboard, we'd expect scores of fighter jets already in the air doing exercises or training sorties or on the ground ready and fueled for these daily sorties.

In addition, the Navy also had scores of fighters within striking range and the Navy always keeps some fighters on alert. And the Toledo, OH ANG was not on alert but still managed to get fighters in the air within 15 minutes on 9/11.

Note that most training sorties are fighters armed with guns that are locked with a "safety" mechanism. All you have to do is unlock the guns and you have all the firepower you need to bring down a passenger jet.


Here is a list of just some of the fighting groups within striking distance of Flights 77 and 93:

At Least Two NORAD Alert Units
----------------------------------------
102nd Otis, MA (F-15's)
119th stationed at Langley, VA (F-16's)


Three More F-15 Squadrons at Langley
-----------------------------------------------
27th FS
71st FS
94th FS


Marine & Navy Fighter Attack Squadrons at Andrews
-----------------------------------------------------------------
VMFA-321 FAS (F/A-18 Hornets)
Plus the USNR also flies F-18's out of Washington NAF.


Ten ANG F-16 Wings
-------------------------
121st Andrews, MD
180th Toledo, OH
192nd Richmond, VA
177th Atlantic City, NJ
174th Syracuse, NY
178th Springfield, OH
127th Selfridge, MI
122nd Fort Wayne, IN
158th Burlington, VT
181st Terra Haute, IN


At Least 25 Navy Fighter Squadrons at Oceana, VA
---------------------------------------------------------------
VF-2 (F-14's)
VF-11 (F-14's)
VF-14 (F-14's)
VF-31 (F-14's)
VF-32 (F-14's)
VF-41 (F-14's plus F/A-18F Super Hornets)
VF-101 (F-14's)
VF-102 (F-14's)
VF-103 (F-14's)
VF-143 (F-14's)
VF-211 (F-14's)
VF-213 (F-14's)
VFA-15 (12 F/A-18 Hornets)
VFA-34 (12 F/A-18 Hornets)
VFA-37 (12 F/A-18 Hornets)
VFA-81 (12 F/A-18 Hornets)
VFA-82 (12 F/A-18 Hornets)
VFA-83 (12 F/A-18 Hornets)
VFA-86 (12 F/A-18 Hornets)
VFA-87 (12 F/A-18 Hornets)
VFA-105 (12 F/A-18 Hornets)
VFA-106 (12 F/A-18 Hornets)
VFA-131 (12 F/A-18 Hornets)
VFA-136 (12 F/A-18 Hornets)
Plus the VFC-12 Fighting Omars (12 F/A-18 Hornets)


Four More F-15 squadrons at Seymour Johnson, NC
--------------------------------------------------------------
333rd FS
334th FS
335th FS
336th FS

An F-18 Testing Squadron at Patuxent River, MD
----------------------------------------------------------
VX-23


Two Nearby A-10 Squadrons
------------------------------------
(Not fast, but they could have been sent on an intercept course considering Flight 93 seemed to be heading at least partially in that direction.)
103rd FS Willow Grove, PA
104th FS Martin State Airport, MD

So how many of these fighters would you expect to be flying sorties on the average weekday morning? And how many would be prepped, at least with guns, and ready to leave a bit later in the day?

Finally, for anyone who contends that a US fighter pilot could have trouble tracking a 757, we have the 112th Air Control Squadron--which just happens to be based in Harrisburg, PA.

From their website:
http://sites.state.pa.us/PA_Exec/Military_Affairs/air_national/112/

The Pennsylvania Air National Guard's 112th Air Control Squadron at State College is the only Pennsylvania based unit with an air control mission. Although the unit is not large, (132 people) its mission makes a huge impact on the effective and safe mission accomplishment of the flying units.

The 112th mission as a Control Reporting Element (CRE) is to control counter air and intercept missions, control or monitor interdiction and recon missions, vector close air support and refueling missions to rendezvous, disseminate tactical warning information, surveillance, and provide airspace management service.

The 112th ACS established in 1949 have had an extremely ambitious flying control schedule throughout its existence. In recent years the unit has controlled/monitored an average of 275 intercept and 300 refueling missions per year. The unit regularly works with flying units from PA, NY, NJ, MD, DC, OH and on occasion, refuelers from the New England states. Types of aircraft include F-16, F-15, A-10, KC-135 and Navy F-14 & F-18.

The 112th recently received a completely new radar system. This system is a computerized radar, which makes us compatible with and able to interact with all the other radars such as AWACS, Navy Hawkeye, and even USMC radars. This new radar will keep the unit current well into the 21st century.

[LearnedHand]

40. Oh, NOW I understand your screenname!

n/t

[Isome]

47. Great info...

But that cartoon is the greatest. I love that strip! I don't know who they are, or where they come from, but I've been reading it for the past year and it always has me rolling with laughter.

[Isome]

48. Great Info for the doubters...

But that cartoon is the greatest. I love that strip! I don't know who they are, or where they come from, but I've been reading it for the past year and it always has me rolling with laughter.

[LearnedHand]

39. Our military may be many, many things...

...but in general, its everyday workings are ANYTHING but incompetent. I'm NOT going to give Whistleass the get-out-of-jail-free card titled "incompetent."

Like you, I don't know that I'm ready to believe the administration MADE it happen, but LIHOP looks more believable to me everyday.

Oh, and one more tinfoil hat thing: I read in the Meeting Room that others have felt the blackout last week seemed almost like a dress rehersal. Strange. I had that very thought myself. And the WH does NOTHING to dispel those fears.

:tinfoilhat:

[FlaGranny]

51. I used to work on an Air Force base.

There are always pilots on standby who can take to the air (scramble) within minutes. The fighters of our defense forces are always fueled and on the runway and there are always pilots on duty who can be in them within seconds to short minutes. Plane in the sky? Not necessary at all.

[alphafemale]

17. Damn right. I mentioned the Payne Stewart timeline to a freep type.

I think I seen them shudder.

The abestos lie also grew legs today.

[Rabrrrrrr]

18. Yer Goddamn right on that one

I was there that morning, and I remember, one of my distinct initial thoughts when I went outside - I left the the World Financial Center about 15 minutes after the second plane hit - I was outside and after getting my friend on the ferry, which took about another 10 minutes, I thought, Shrub did this or had a hand in it, and I also thought, "Where in the hell is the air force? The air force should have been here half an hour ago".

And goddammit, they should have, if not earlier.

I don't think i saw a fighter plane until after the north tower fell. I might have been after the south tower fell. I absolutely did know for a fact that I did not see a fighter until after at least the south tower fell, because I was across the street when the south tower fell, after which I headed north, and I was well north before I saw a fighter.

THERE'S SOMETHING THAT GOES FAR BEYOND IMPEACHABLE IN THAT. I'd say that Shrub has committed such a series of crimes that he is EXECUTABLE; dereliction of duty, treason, and war crimes, at a minimum.

Someone told the military to stand down. I can't imagine that is anything other than a fact.

I also remember walking home that morning and thinking, "Man, someone at the CIA is getting his ass chewed." But I realized soon after, no, no one is getting their ass chewed, because as we know now, the FBI and the CIA **DID** do their job. Our fake, criminal president ignored them. So no one was getting an ass chewing, but a certain evil family (the Bush family) and others were celebrating like hell, because they had everything they needed to impose a psuedo-martial law, attack Iraq, attack Afghanistan, and basically lead a holy war against Islam that would profit the Bush family, Cheney, et. al. to a huge extent.

yes indeed, our fake president IS that evil, and so is his family, and their SuperChristian cohorts - and A$$kkkroft fits in that one - saw their potential for holy war and armegeddon and the second coming of Christ.

[dudeness]

26. one of your best will..

absolutely rivetting..

[ElementaryPenguin]

49. Awesome post, Will!!

eom

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

7. Were you there?

Did you see how security was beefed up just a few weeks before 911? Have you heard about John O'Neill? Does it bother anyone that the Bush family has been in business with the Bin Ladens for years?

Sometimes people on DU get carried away, and so do I. Bush and his collaborators have *a lot* to answer for about 911. So far, they have just covered it all up.

[FloridaPat]

8. Just keep reading about 9-11. The problem is, the more

you read and put together what did happen and what's happened since then, you start to wonder. When I start saying Bush was involved, I've had people just walk away. No one can comprehend that the president of the United States could do something like that. When I tell them about everything else that is going on - how Bush is doing everything he can to stop the 9-11 commissions from investigating anything; how he let the bin Ladin family leave on 9-13; how the White House started taking ciprocol (for anthrax) 3 days after 9-11 and 3 weeks before the anthrax attack; etc etc etc. Look around at where the money is and is going. When Bush talks, assume everything he says is a lie, and go to the internet and find the truth. Look at the people involved in 9-11. The hijackers were supposidly trained at US bases or at an airport that had CIA connections. The puts were done at a brokerage firm with CIA connections. Bin ladin was recruited and trained by the CIA. Bush Sr. was head of the CIA. Everything just keeps going around in circles on this.

[roughsatori]

10. Only you can decide that

How would you know if I am too mainstream or left-wing for this site? That would be my decision to make, not anyone else's (unless I was banned by administrators for disrupting). You will have to decide by reading and responding a bit more. Do what feels best for you.

[hang a left]

12. welcome nomaco

du will introduce alot of information to you. some stuff you probably will end up wishing you didn't know. anybody is welcome here, and the views vary. you can tell that by how people will start arguing back and forth. it is awesome. i am so addicted. so hope you stick around and invite others. ba buy

[Rose Siding]

15. Here is some information that SHOULD be mainstream.

An Interesting Day:
President Bush's Movements and Actions on 9/11

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/main/essayaninterestingday.html

The Failure to Defend the Skies on 9/11

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/main/essayairdefense.html

At least you'll see where many here are coming from. It isn't just a conspiracy made of whole cloth.

[not systems]

19. not too "mainstream"

Who knows what happen that day, not me for sure.

Welcome to DU nomaco-10 stick around, ignore what you don't
like or don't find interesting, join in where you have
something to add.

And Go Dean!

[never cry wolf]

20. yeah, what they said

there are all levels of opinion on WTC here. personally i doubt MIHOP and LIHOP is a maybe, but i try to keep an open mind except for the advocates who think the WTC had bombs planted to assist the planes. before i came here i just thought whistle ass was very fortunate in his ratings due to WTC, and the PNAC who make his policy for him were very fortunate in that they got the "pearl harbor" type event they wrote in their foriign policy essay back in 2000 that allowed them to accelerate their plans. but, read on. there are many other dots and they start to connect.

cheney energy conference with maps and dispositions of iraqi oil fields, all kept secret.

PNAC policy paper published in 2000 advocating unilateral invasion of iraq in order to control oil resources against possible future rivals to the only superpower.

the same policy paper noting it will be a slow build up to that barring a pearl harbor type event.

on 9-11 the air force was fully staffed running through some sort of exercises, yet were not scrambled to intercept (SOP) for nearly an hour after the hijackings were apparent and reported by the FAA and then scrambled from a base hundreds of miles farther away. i have seen on here that there was an order to stand down from very high up.

WTC attacked by 19 al quaida hijackers, predominantly made up of saudi nationals.

the only commercial jet to take off after that was a jet full of saudis, including members of the bin laden family, to saudi arabia. btw: it was the bin laden family who bailed out one of shrubs failed business ventures and pappy bush is currently heavily involved with saudis in business ventures.

shrubs approval ratings go thru the roof.

the patriot act is overwhelmingly passed.

homeland security is passed.

afghanastan is attacked and taken over. oil pipeline from khazastan thru afghan. is contracted for to a US interest after the taliban had contracted with a french company.

rumble is made for a war with iraq, WMDS, links to al quaida bullshit. we attack and take over a country essentially in revenge for 9-11 (as the sheeples were stirred to want) that had no connections to 9-11 or al quaida.

no WMDS, no al quaida connection but liberty for the iraqis, HAH. meanwhile haliburton gets a no bid, open ended contract. US corps start pumping the oil that iraq had contracted for with the french and russians.

9-11 report comes out, no mention of iraq. 28 pages redacted by the admin. dealing with saudi arabia and their support of al quaida.

i'm not saying, i'm just saying. things that make you go hmmmmmm.


btw: i am sure that thread was not deleted. probably just archived. after there are no posts for a while it just kinda drops way down as i understand it and hibernates.

[Redleg]

21. You will fit in just fine.

You are welcome to our site if you are a Democrat or a liberal, lefty, whatever. Not all of us believe Bush caused 9-11 to happen. I believe his negligence and arrogance helped bring it on.

[stickdog]

22. No. You just haven't been here long enough.

If you've got the time, we've got the scoop.

Four 9/11 Mom's Battle Bush:

http://www.newyorkobserver.com/pages/frontpage3.asp

Once Lorie began surfing the Web, she couldn’t stop. She found a video of President Bush’s reaction on the morning of Sept. 11. According to the official timeline provided by his press secretary, the President arrived at an elementary school in Sarasota, Fla., at 9 a.m. and was told in the hallway of the school that a plane had crashed into the World Trade Center. This was 14 minutes after the first attack. The President went into a private room and spoke by phone with his National Security Advisor, Condoleezza Rice, and glanced at a TV in the room. "That’s some bad pilot," the President said. Bush then proceeded to a classroom, where he drew up a little stool to listen to second graders read. At 9:04 a.m., his chief of staff, Andrew Card, whispered in his ear that a second plane had struck the towers. "We are under attack," Mr. Card informed the President.

"Bush’s sunny countenance went grim," said the White House account. "After Card’s whisper, Bush looked distracted and somber but continued to listen to the second graders read and soon was smiling again. He joked that they read so well, they must be sixth graders."

Lorie checked the Web site of the Federal Aviation Authority. The F.A.A. and the Secret Service, which had an open phone connection, both knew at 8:20 a.m. that two planes had been hijacked in the New York area and had their transponders turned off. How could they have thought it was an accident when the first plane slammed into the first tower 26 minutes later? How could the President have dismissed this as merely an accident by a "bad pilot"? And how, after he had been specifically told by his chief of staff that "We are under attack," could the Commander in Chief continue sitting with second graders and make a joke? Lorie ran the video over and over.

"I couldn’t stop watching the President sitting there, listening to second graders, while my husband was burning in a building," she said.

*****

In July 2001, at the G8 Summit in Genoa, Italy, US President George W. Bush was himself the suspected target of a terrorist plot to crash a hijacked commercial plane into a building. "Italian officials took the reports seriously enough to prompt extraordinary precautions during the July summit of the Group of 8 nations, including closing the airspace over Genoa and stationing antiaircraft guns at the city's airport." (Sources: New York Newsday, Sept 19, 2001 and LA Times, Sept. 29, 2001)

Given that Bush himself was a suspected target of a "hijacked plane bomb" terrorist attack in July, how can the Bush administration possibly explain the fact that Bush kept reading about a pet goat in a widely publicized, previously scheduled public appearance in Sarasota, FL only 5 miles from the Sarasota-Bradenton International Airport at least 15 minutes AFTER it had become obvious to everyone that the US was dealing with a coordinated attack of suicide-bomber-terrorist-hijackers? From 9/12 AP reports: "In Florida, Bush was reading to children in a classroom at 9:05 a.m. when his chief of staff, Andrew Card, whispered into his ear. The president briefly turned somber before he resumed reading. He addressed the tragedy about a half-hour later."

Didn't it cross anybody's mind in the entire Bush entourage that the grammar school might be the terrorists' next target and that they just might want to get Bush and ALL OF THE LITTLE KIDS he was reading with out of harm's way? If not, why not?

Remember that just two months before, Bush himself was the suspected target of just such a terrorist plot. Is there no one in the entire Bush administration intelligence/Secret Service with a three digit IQ?

The simplest and clearest explanation for this bizarre reaction to the VERY real potential of toddler mass murder is administration foreknowedge at the highest levels. Bravado doesn't fly as an explanation because Bush would be taking little kids with him in any potential attack. Stunned inaction doesn't fly either because the primary mission of the entire Secret Service is to ensure the President's safety. There are only two choices here: the Bush administration was either CRIMINALLY INCOMPETENT or just plain CRIMINAL.

The full picture of Bush's actions on 9/11:

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/main/essayaninterestingday.html

[nomaco-10]

27. Glad you brought that up...

When will it be long enough? 1,000 posts, 2,000 posts? Surely you don't think I became a democrat because I found this board. I am 49 years old and have been a "liberal" all my life. I have alienated friends and put off relatives with my views for years in a state (TN) where it has not always been generally accepting to be a "progressive". I don't need a "baptism by fire" to be accepted on a democratic message board or an "immersion" in leftwing politics. I'm here, I'm with you. Let's work together and accomplish our common goals. PEACE

[stickdog]

28. Welcome.

I was talking only about the 9/11 stuff.

When I came here, I felt the same as you do.

I was suspicious about Flight 93 because of some friends I have in the State Department, but I thought the other 9/11 stuff was goofy.

Now I just want someone to answer all of the legitimate questions. But two years later, Bush&Co are still working overtime to cover up every damn thing about this tragic event.

So that's what I was talking about. Otherwise, glad to have you here. We are and we welcome all shapes and sizes other than brain-dead Bushistas!

stickdog's theory of conspiracies: Unconscionable Secrecy Breeds Untoward Suspicions.

[SoCalDem]

34. And don't forget that a shuttle accident that caused 7 deaths

AND that we "knew" why it happened, has already had THREE investigations with the accompanying press conferences and Q&A..

The thing that has been bothering me from the get go...When THREE THOUSAND Americans are vaporized after "just going to work, or getting on an airplane", there is NO immediate investigation, yet subsequent . yet readily explainable accidents have been investigated IMMEDIATELY..

The "attempted cover-up" and the stalling tactics indicate to me that the admin is afraid of embarrassing information coming out..:(

If I was a family member of someone who died there or on one of the planes, I would be FURIOUS...

[Athame]

41. SoCal, that gif is DISGUSTING!

LOL. I just can't look at it. :hurts:

[WilliamPitt]

29. Do me a favor

and tell anyone who questions you because of your post count to take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut in a gravel driveway. If they have any questions, send them to me.

[nomaco-10]

30. Thank you Will,

I'm a big fan and am reading your newest book right now. I have a very strong "constitution" and can take the suspicions and doubts of being a newbie here. This site needs to embrace all newcomers and try to help get out the vote in 2004. We can accomplish this if we all work together.

[5thGenDemocrat]

36. Or, if Pitt's out, to me (or Skittles -- she'll kick their asses)

Relax. I've been here for over two years and 4000 posts and I feel out of place at times.
It's probably cosmic mojo or a bad moon or something. It'll pass.
John
If you're wondering if you fit in, you probably do. Sometimes, it's a food fight -- but, hey, it's OUR food fight.

[WilliamPitt]

37. Mmmmmmm...fooooooooood fiiiiiiiight...

lllaaaaaaahhhggglllll...

:)

[Eloriel]

25. Keep reading, with an open mind, re 9-11

There is more info on the internet about it than you could truly absorb in probably a month. I had a hard disk crash last week or I'd haul out my favorite site -- it's probably something like http://www.unansweredquestions.com

Or google UnansweredQuestions

Edited: An oh! Welcome to DU. If you can handle the truth, you're definitely in the right place (altho that shouldn't be read as implying that everything you see here is "the truth," 'cause it ain't).

Eloriel

[Athame]

31. Welcome, nomaco-10, and check these old threads out.

:hi:
Nobody asks you to believe anything without testing, questioning, and expecting real sources. Many of us here have been reading and researching 9-11 for nearly two years. You are in good company with others who simply can't "go there." But here's an old DU thread that has many good links.

A 9-11 thread for DU newcomers

And here is one of the "must read" sites by frequent DU poster Paul Thompson:
9-11 Timeline

On edit: I see this has been posted several times in posts above. Here's another one that is also good: John Dean on the 9-11 Report The recently released Report of the Joint Congressional Inquiry Into The Terrorist Attacks Of September 11, and its dismal findings, have been well reported by the news media. What has not been widely reported, however, are the inescapable conclusions that must be drawn from a close reading of this bipartisan study.

Obviously, Republicans were not going to let Democrats say what needed to be said, or maybe Democrats did not want to politicize the matter. But since the facts could not be ignored or suppressed, they reported them without drawing certain obvious, not to mention devastating, conclusions.


If you are game, make your way down to the DU basement to the Military Affairs Forum and the 9-11 folder. You will find many threads on every imaginable aspect of that horrible day.

Stick with us, whatever your own conclusions may be. Just don't be too quick to judge until you have travelled the road a bit.

Ma

What do I see that I don't want to see?
What do I know that I don't want to know?
Starhawk

[nomaco-10]

32. Thanks for the welcome,

You are very kind and I will read all these links with an open mind. I read two newspapers every morning, then I get on line, buzzflash and truthout are my favorite sources on the net. I come here and try to read as many links as I can. I really like that people here feel the need to back up their posts with links. Best wishes and hope our paths run across each other soon.

[janekat]

35. I just came on this board also....

and I love it. I've been on several other political message boards and I have come to the conclusion that most of the people on this board are political junkies.... We have read everything we can get our hands on about 9/11, etc. I've never run across people who know more about all the latest issues.

To be honest with you, the more you read and hear about these things, the more you begin to realize that there is something very, very wrong with this administration and with a lot of the political system.

I used to be Republican (my whole family was - I was raised that way) but the more I started to read newspapers other than my home town paper and started to listen to CNN and other news channels - I became rather liberal.

You know how they say the majority of journalists are Democrats and are Liberal? The same with most college Professors. Who knows more about the issues than these people??? My opinion is that the more informed you are - the more likely you will lean left.

[maggrwaggr]

42. Hear hear! And welcome!

Yup, all the smart people I know are liberals as well.

All the educated ones. All the well-travelled ones. Especially the well-travelled ones.

Welcome to DU

[Rowdyboy]

33. nomanco, welcome...overlook our exuberance...

Most of us mean well, even when we're reaming each other out. You'd be surprised at the odd friendships that develop here.

There is definitely room for all 184 flavors of Democrats (though the Zell Miller Dems keep a LOW profile)...

[shamgar50]

43. Idiot Bush

Read Al Franken's new book "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them. In it he suggests that 9/11 might not have happened if Bush had listened to Clinton. He has the facts to back it up. It turns out that Clinton did more to combat terrorism than any other president before him. He had a plan to do almost everything Bush has done since 9/11. Seems the Bushies thought Clinton was obsessed with Al Quaida and ignored the situation. So you see Democrats weren't soft on terrorism. It was the damn Rapethepublicans and their idiot president, who didn't have a clue that were soft (headed) on terrorism.
One last thing. Read Al Franken's book. It's a must for Democrats and Liberals or any one that cares about the truth. :mad:

[newyawker99]

45. Hi shamgar50!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[shamgar50]

46. Howdy

Thanks for the welcome!:hi:

[Ein]

44. It benefited Bush

and he had plenty of warnings. LIHOP's against Roosevelt w/ Pearl Harbor have been around for a long time on half the evidence, and with a very good man.

You can call it theory, but refute what people bring up, in that case.

These people are ruthless, thier policies speak it, and thier actions speak it even louder.

"I hit the trifecta" <--- WELL WTF WAS HE BETTING ON.

[MODemocrat]

50. GD is a versatile forum

You're not in the wrong place at all. I'm not a political junkie, but I've learned so much from this forum. What I do is, just decline any comments at all when the subject matter is too far out. I can't stand the Bush administration at all, and I really believe that Bush has taken our country down to the lowest level ever. People like Rush,
and many of the others in the media, have lowered the bar beyond return.

[Darranar]

54. Agreed...

that is one of the main reasons that i stay here and post here.

[jagguy]

52. there is a rather broad spectrum of thought here

its heavy on the conspiracy theory stuff such as what you describe but its not exclusive to that.

You'll catch flack for mainstream ideas but unless your skin is thin why not hang around and enjoy the ride ?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

53. I Think Bush And His Cabal Are

Overly Americacentric*, myopic,selfish, and profoundly misguided. I do not think they are evil.





*I consider myself Americacentric. I love my country and it's possibilities but I am not blind to it's fault and my love of country doesn't lead me to hate or denigrate others.