This Hilary '04 crap = Fear. Yes, Fear!!

[WilliamPitt]

These folks are nervous about our candidates, be they Dean or Clark or Kerry or whomever. This is an early ploy to smear the Democratic candidates with passive, unspoken distastefulness...

...and though it may burn you, understand the fact. The impeachment, and all the madness of the Clinton Attack Years, served one purpose: To make the general public, who watches TV and knows little but what the device tells them, mortally sick of anything Clinton. They suceeded. Deal with that, for it is a truth.

Hillary would make a fine candidate, but not in 2004. It is too soon after the flameout, and I think she knows it.

This is a rumor...a rumor meant to attach distastefulness and oh-god-here-we-go emotions to the Democratic candidates. Sound crazy? Understand group dynamics, mass media power, and the game that has been played on all of us.

Do not help them. Fight the message that is NOT the message.

[madrchsod]

1. i don`t think hilary

will ever run for president..but i could see chelsea running in the future. i doubt i`ll be around to vote for her but i can see her generation voting in a women president. hilary is a distraction but i doubt the democrats will fall for it and the undecided will make up their minds next year,by then hilary will be old news...
oh yes.. if our stupid manager would have started buerle today the yanks would have lost three to the white sox..

[seventhson]

2. Right, the best polling dem potentially running =Fear. Riiiiight

After Al Gore, Hillary has been consistently seen as the best next choice according to a bunch of polls posted here in months past.

You think your POSTER boy Kerry is not an "oh God here we go again" candidate.

This is what I don't get about you, Will -- the people who have the best name recognition and actually the best chance of winning --- of beating Bush


Gore, now Hillary ---

You use all your notoriety and fame to take a humongous crap right on them and on anyone here at DU who MIGHT think Hillary is a good idea.


Look --- I have my issues with Hillary and Bill. Some serious issues (If Bill was in on Mena, Hillary probably was too).


But I do not buy your fearmongering issue.

Hillary may run if she is coincinced she has the best chance of beating Bush.

A CT type might think she was being kept in reserve in the event it looks like Bush might actually lose ---- and the other BFEE candidate, Kerry, is floundering. Hillary rides in to beat Bush etc.


All I'm saying is WHY do you reflexively attack Hillary every time?

You sound like folks on another board.

How can you be a progressive and supportive democrat when you demean and dismiss the potentially best candidates?

[WilliamPitt]

4. Maybe

But here's my take.

1. I do not trust polls.

2. These GOPers have had a Book of Lies about Gore and Clinton (both of them) for years. They have but to vomit those lies and the hyperactive howling about them into the masses and you can be sure of the response: A mass defection from giving a shit about this election. They'll hear all the same old shit and think it is all the same old shit, and they will eject, and the same minority which ALWAYS VOTES will take the election again.

3. They don't have a Book of Lies pounded permanently into the American cortex about Kerry, or Dean, or any of the candidates. That is why they are important.

Maybe I'm wrong 7thson. I don't think so. I've been studying this hard.

[xray s]

5. The reason I have hope

American's are starting to focus on a new Book of Lies, this one written about Bush, self-authored.

[WilliamPitt]

6. BINGO

Let's not give them a reason to be distracted, yes?

[LearnedHand]

14. As much as I love and admire Ms. Clinton...

...I'm terrified that if she DID run for prez right now, the RW media would stir up all the folks in whom they had implanted the Hate-Everything-Bill-and-Hillary gene.

Now I don't pretend to know the actual demographic distribution of Repukes and Dems, but if the media stirred up the Hate-Hillary-Hornet's-Nest, we'd sure as hell find out! I'm afraid we'd see people turn out at the polls who'd never once in their lifetimes voted, and would never vote again! I'd rather win these people over to the side of reason.

I'd love to see Ms. Clinton in the White House as the commander-in-chief and chief thorn-in-the-ass of the Pukes, but I think the time for that is 4 years or so down the road! (Aside to Hillary: You go, girl!)

[unfrigginreal]

3. Different opinion...

Hillary would benefit from much of the same anger that Dean has tapped into. I do believe that her crossover appeal is much more limited than his is though.

I also think that if anybody could right the wrongs by showing how much more moral it was to have peace and prosperity versus fear and despair, Hillary could.

[aquart]

13. Hillary, like Schumer voted for the war.

Even if she runs, she doesn't meet my current criteria.

[unfrigginreal]

18. Yeah, the war vote sucked...

I think if anyone in Congress could get beyond that, Hillary is the only one.

It's probably more wishful thinking on my part than reality, but I think that the General Public would eventually, with reminiscence of peace and prosperity during the Clinton years, be willing to hear what she had to say.

Don't interpret this as a post of my throwing support behind her candidacy, but I keep all of my options open until we have determined the best candidate to take out Bush.

[jfxgillis]

7. That is a nachul fack, Will

What I'm seeing in the public is an erosion in the heretofore AXIOMATIC belief in George W. Bush's good faith.

The axiom, of course, was no product of Bush's good faith; he has none now and whatever little he may have had earlier was hardly notable. It was product of both the image-makers in the 2000 election and the profound effects of 9/11.

That axiom is embedded permanently in the 30% or so of the electorate that is committed-partisan Right/conservative/GOP. But those people NEED that presumption of good faith to fill out their bid for power. The 17% spread between those who ALWAYS believe in Bush's good faith and the 47% which Bush won in 2000 is, simply put ESSENTIAL.

The Repubs can't win unless that 17% agrees that "Bush is a good guy even if he ain't that bright." And if you listen to the folk at the supermarket or on the Red Line, you can hear the doubt seeping in.

Hence, the VRWC tries to start this Hillary storm. STOP THINKING ABOUT BUSH, it says, THINK ABOUT CLINTON.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

8. Don't worry. The Army is coming...

...right up PA Avenue.

[IndianaGreen]

9. They are worried that Bush may be vulnerable in 2004

so they dangle Hillary's name in the press in order to inflamme the passions of the rightwing rank-and-file, many of whom are not as enthusiastic about Bush as they were when they had jobs and their 401Ks had more value.

Yes, Will, I sense their fear!

[ringmastery]

11. good point

One of the posts at that crap freeper site that amused me. They are scared.

Of course she will run. She was always going to run. She can't wait until 2008. If the economy does not turn around (to the point where Joe Lunchpail agrees that it has) by June 2004, she will win the presidency.

You're exactly right. I've been saying since very early in Bush's administration that he was a one-termer, and the sick feeling in the pit of my stomach about her running has been strengthening.

I'm amazed when I see people on here talking about them wanting her to run, about how easy she'll be to beat, and shooting fish in a barrel and other such incredible nonsense. Do these people not remember '92, when everyone horse-laughed at the thought of Bill Clinton being president? Then he was elected, and the cry was, "He'll never be RE-elected! NO WAY!" And he was. And then the night before the 2000 election, they were trashing and laughing at all the polls showing how close the election would be. Bush got in, and has been an automatic shoe-in in their minds ever since. The lack of ability to muster even a modicum of objectivity is breathtaking.

When Hillary announces, the media will mount the biggest FREE propaganda campaign in the history of the world. Literally. And unless something drastic is going on next November that causes the nation to rally around Bush, she will win.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

20. But what good does it do

when she doesn't run? Why get the base stirred up 15 months before the election? Just because they can, I guess.

[WilliamPitt]

21. Because it connects 'Democrat' to 'Hillary'

or at least to 'Clinton.'

Which, they think, will help.

[unfrigginreal]

26. Good point IG...

that's why i think there may be some substance to this rumor.

[aquart]

10. Yup.

[nomaco-10]

12. When I heard the clip today on a cable news network...

that Hillary's hat may still be in the ring, I thought; oh, hell, don't do this Hillary.... keep your senate seat along with Lieberman and Edwards and get behind Dean with a possible Wesley Clark VP. Personally I think Clark would be a better Secretary of Defense, but give him anything he wants, he's needed and would be a tremendous asset in any dem's campaign. If he runs alone he may divide, but if he get's the nom, I'll vote for him (ANYBODY but BUSH).

[LearnedHand]

16. And THAT, 10, is the BEST reason...

...Ms. Clinton should wait until 2008, if indeed, she's considering a presidential run this time. Dems should not give up senate seats for ANYTHING! Those seats are too precious right now.

[kskiska]

15. They're getting scared of Dean, too

They're openly discussing destroying him.

Launch the Dean Counterattack
The Bushies must squelch this left-wing uprising.

Larry Kudlow

(snip)

Howard Dean's left-wing uprising should be squelched before it gains any currency in the public mind. Standing above the fray is no way to do it. Neither are caustic put downs. The Bushies must dig in now. They've got to pull out some serious policy analysis and some long knives — before this Dean thing gets out of hand.

http://www.nationalreview.com/kudlow/kudlow082803.asp

[nomaco-10]

19. We can't let that happen....

If the du'ers here are sincere and stand behind their "anybody but bush" creedo, we must unite and stop the bush machine from destroying a potential dem nominee that can "TAKE BACK THIS COUNTRY".

[oasis]

17. I take Hillary at her word. She's not running and her best wishes go to

the Democratic candidate/president to serve two terms. I heard that from her in an interview she had a month or two ago when she was pushing her book "Living History". It was either Larry King or Charlie Rose.

[lynndew2]

22. I see it a little different Will

The Clintons are doing all they can to suck all the air out of all the canidates that are running now. If Hillary thinks bush is beatable in 2004 she will come out and either win the nomination, or cause such a commotion that bush will win again.

The timing of her book, and the timing of when his is coming out is all to make sure NO dem is elected in 04 unless it is Hillary. Right now Dean has become very popular and low and behold, Rumors of Hillary are brewing.

It isnt the right wing doing this. It is the Clintons. They are making sure she has a free run in 08 if she doesnt feel she can win in 04.

Sad but True....They are brilliant polititions as we all know. Truth is they only care about the Clintons and this is becoming soooooooooooo f@cking obvious.

[WilliamPitt]

23. I'd need an iota of proof for that assessment

[lynndew2]

24. i showed you the proof

look at the timing of the book releases....look how they make sure their names are in the headlines whenever something is going on. Open your eyes please. They ran out to california to support Davis, when it became clear that was a losing battle. They made sure their names werent associated publicly anymore. The Clintons are playing the whole party and they are smooth. Sad that you dont see it, sorry.

[WilliamPitt]

25. I don't see it

Thus, I will be sad.

[lynndew2]

28. Ok, please keep your eyes open

Sorry, but it is obvious to me that the Clintons are running the sideboards and shooting down anyone that could thwart their plans. Please watch with open eyes to what happens. They will (or try to) make sure that they are always center page. They have been doing this for the last 6 months and Hillary wont wait till '12. They will suck all the air out of the current canidates, or if they are sure bush can be defeated. She will run now. Just my observations, but so very obvious.

[juajen]

39. Boy, sounds like the Clintons are diabolical!

Could this be what the dems need to beat the diabolical fundies?

"Get on board, little children, get on board
Get on board, little children, there's room for many more."

[WilliamPitt]

41. ..."shooting down anyone that could thwart their plans"

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand what, pray tell, are their plans?

You really think Bill is going to run again?

C'mere. Give me 30 minutes of your day and I'll give you American Politics 101.

[synthia]

52. i have one question

do you think hillary wants to be president?

[WilliamPitt]

54. Yeah, but so do I

That and a quarter'll get you a phone call.

[tridim]

27. If Hillary doesn't make a statement tomorrow

does that mean the rumor is true? Or will she let the rumor simmer for awhile and see if it backfires? Who knows.

I think she's wise enough to stay out of this race.

[lynndew2]

30. She wont say tomorrow

She wont say till they are sure the chances are she can win. But see how this thing has sucked the air out of the discussion of other canidates...the Clintons are playing politics and doing it very effectively

[jfxgillis]

32. "Sucked the air"

There's no air to be sucked, yet.

All the candidates, and the two nominees, presumably Bush and one of the current Dem candidates, will have PLENTY of air to breathe in the Spring, Summer and Fall of '04.

The only people who care about this stuff now are committed partisans. And committed partisans don't win elections. The other 90% of voters do.

[lynndew2]

33. They are sucking the air by putting themselves as the news

N/T

[oasis]

34. She hasn't sucked any from Dean and Arnold. The others weren't

getting much press anyway.

[lynndew2]

36. As I said, just keep your eyes open

They are brilliant polititions and they want more. They decided Gray wasnt worth their time. All I will say now is "keep your eyes open". You will see how they make sure they are on the front page anytime something big is happening or if a canidate(Dean) starts to build a steamroller. I dont mean to make anyone mad. Just what i have observed.

I have to go to bed NOW!!! I work in 6 hours and I do need some sleep...lol. Night you all and sweet dreams!

[oasis]

37. Buh bye, pleasant dreams

:hi:

[jfxgillis]

43. THERE'S NO AIR

Whether Hillary takes a headline today will have ZERO impact on events a year from now.

If there were anything to your idea, it would be a good thing anyway, because it keeps the peons happy and prevents the public from getting bored and the opundits from ginning up phony conflict and scandals with the viable DEms.

[juajen]

40. Bullfeathers!

Sucked the air out? You obviously don't know the Deanies very well, or we Kucinich supporters, or any of the others. In the words of an old professor of mine, "Marlarkey".

[diamond14]

29. Hillary and Bill on the campaign trail would be GREAT for

America...together, they would stomp bush* on economics, foreign policy, war, everything....maybe Bill will run for VP, and they both can take back the White House...the dream team...

Bring back PEACE and PROSPERITY...bring back the Clinton team....

don't forget, Will...more than half of America are WOMEN, and waiting for a woman President too long now...women VOTE, women control a lot of money, women want equality....

Senator Hillary Clinton is doing a great job for the people of New York...we need a strong leader like her...she held her family together for years, and likely was the person behind the Presidency of Bill Clinton...every woman in America knows that...Go Hillary !!!!

Clinton/Clinton in 2004....

[juajen]

42. Hey, Amen

And a gracious "Amen" to your post.

[AP]

31. It's also supposed to make it look like Dems don't like their choices

which obviously isn't true.

[wabeewoman]

35. The problem with Hillary in 04

is the same problem with Gore. It would be about them and not about bush. The focus has to be bush and his policies and destruction of America. Hillary and Gore have too much baggage. I'm sorry that this is true as I would really love to have Gore as our president. I haven't made up my mind yet about Hillary. I want to see a woman president but she seems to make too many 'go along' decisions. I don't hear her voice raised against bush. You can argue that if Dean is the candidate it will be about him but people don't have pre-conceptions about him yet so that can be combated. And she did emphatically say she wasn't going to run.

[juajen]

44. Yeah, with all that baggage, they are ready to move back in.

More power to Hill and Bill! They said for us not to worry, they would still be around. Go get em!

By the way, in answer to that other poster, if Bill could get past oral sex in the oval office with impeachment falling around his ears, I don't think Hillary will have a problem with her war vote. Saying he was sorry went a long way for Bill, she will certainly handle it.

[onehandle]

38. And...

She said she'd serve out her term.

Trolls on DU will continue to fan the flames though.

[stickdog]

45. Great post. I couldn't agree more. (NT)

[Ein]

46. Hillary is a losing deal.

Not on her merits, but that right have demagogued the Clintons to the point where everyone thinks they are the liberal gods (hah), and that they suck.

[Dover]

47. Seems like if this was a repug ploy, that Hillary would be quick

to set the record straight, no?

[Ein]

48. The assault on the Clintons was freaking insane.

I haven't read it, but I hear "The Hunting of The President" is a good book to read on the topic.

It was at least one case where a republican congress completely assaulted and slandered a president to the point where I see people say "I hate him/her" of the Clintons, and they have no response when I ask "Why".

I already know the reason, thier television told them to hate them. I didn't like the Clinton presidency, but these people, and those repbulicans, are just fucking insane.

[WilliamPitt]

49. Read that book

[Ein]

50. plan on getting "Big Lies" first

Conason interests me, seems to be one of the best pundits that are in favor of the democrats (i say that exclude Chomsky and Zinn).

edit: btw, plan on reading your books too, you are one of my DU heroes.

[Dover]

51. Maybe I misunderstood Will's post or the conversation that preceded it.

I thought this was about the current rumor that Hillary will run in '04, not about the frenzied shark feeding on the Clintons a few years ago. Of course I realize the Clintons are feared by the repugs, but I can't believe the latest rumor of her running was their idea.
As I said, if it was a repug ploy intended to do harm, Hillary would certainly nip it in the bud by quickly reiterating she is NOT running.

[liberalnurse]

53. This is a late reply to your post....

I was at Dayton Democratic Head Quarters last night and the Hillary subject started to buzz the room. I said essentially what you did. I believe I deflated some of the party-splitting damange.

Essentially, you validated my take on the issue. I feel better now. :)