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Elbowroom Donating Member (257 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 05:48 PM
Original message
WOW....perfect timing...huh? WMD docs
http://www.juiceenewsdaily.com/1004/news/new_docs.html

New Documents: Saddam Possessed WMDs, Terrorist Ties
by Landon Howell Bio Email
Owner & Editor

New Saddam Hussein WMD documents have been found according to Power Line and CNS News.

CNS News broke the news Monday morning that "Saddam Possessed WMD, Had Extensive Terror Ties"

As noted within the documents by Power Line:

"Iraqi intelligence documents, confiscated by U.S. forces and obtained by CNSNews.com, show numerous efforts by Saddam Hussein's regime to work with some of the world's most notorious terror organizations, including al Qaeda, to target Americans. They demonstrate that Saddam's government possessed mustard gas and anthrax, both considered weapons of mass destruction, in the summer of 2000, during the period in which United Nations weapons inspectors were not present in Iraq. And the papers show that Iraq trained dozens of terrorists inside its borders."

"Other memos provide a list of terrorist groups with whom Iraq had relationships and considered available for terror operations against the United States."

"Among the organizations mentioned are those affiliated with Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and Ayman al-Zawahiri, two of the world's most wanted terrorists."



http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewSpecialReports.asp?Page=%5CSpecialReports%5Carchive%5C200410%5CSPE20041004a.html


Exclusive: Saddam Possessed WMD, Had Extensive Terror Ties
By Scott Wheeler
CNSNews.com Staff Writer
October 04, 2004

(CNSNews.com) - Iraqi intelligence documents, confiscated by U.S. forces and obtained by CNSNews.com, show numerous efforts by Saddam Hussein's regime to work with some of the world's most notorious terror organizations, including al Qaeda, to target Americans. They demonstrate that Saddam's government possessed mustard gas and anthrax, both considered weapons of mass destruction, in the summer of 2000, during the period in which United Nations weapons inspectors were not present in Iraq. And the papers show that Iraq trained dozens of terrorists inside its borders.

One of the Iraqi memos contains an order from Saddam for his intelligence service to support terrorist attacks against Americans in Somalia. The memo was written nine months before U.S. Army Rangers were ambushed in Mogadishu by forces loyal to a warlord with alleged ties to al Qaeda.

Other memos provide a list of terrorist groups with whom Iraq had relationships and considered available for terror operations against the United States.

Among the organizations mentioned are those affiliated with Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and Ayman al-Zawahiri, two of the world's most wanted terrorists. Zarqawi is believed responsible for the kidnapping and beheading of several American civilians in Iraq and claimed responsibility for a series of deadly bombings in Iraq Sept. 30. Al-Zawahiri is the top lieutenant of al Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden, allegedly helped plan the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist strikes on the U.S., and is believed to be the voice on an audio tape broadcast by Al-Jazeera television Oct. 1, calling for attacks on U.S. and British interests everywhere.

The source of the documents

A senior government official who is not a political appointee provided CNSNews.com with copies of the 42 pages of Iraqi Intelligence Service documents. The originals, some of which were hand-written and others typed, are in Arabic. CNSNews.com had the papers translated into English by two individuals separately and independent of each other.

There are no hand-writing samples to which the documents can be compared for forensic analysis and authentication. However, three other experts - a former weapons inspector with the United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM), a retired CIA counter-terrorism official with vast experience dealing with Iraq, and a former advisor to then-presidential candidate Bill Clinton on Iraq - were asked to analyze the documents. All said they comport with the format, style and content of other Iraqi documents from that era known to be genuine.

Laurie Mylroie, who authored the book, "Study of Revenge: Saddam Hussein's Unfinished War against America," and advised Clinton on Iraq during the 1992 presidential campaign, told CNSNews.com that the papers represent "the most complete set of documents relating Iraq to terrorism, including Islamic terrorism" against the U.S.
.........................................................
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newsguyatl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. cns is a bozell operation
that's like drudge breaking this story
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Carla in Ca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. That is all you need to know. Bozell = disregard
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Elbowroom Donating Member (257 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. i don't really like discrediting sources
i like discrediting claims..... know what i mean?


sometimes...even the the worst liars get a news story right.
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Carla in Ca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #20
35. Yes, I know what you mean, and that is fine
but I can get accurate info from too many other sources without wasting any time sifting through this person's propaganda.

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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-05-04 07:04 AM
Response to Reply #20
43. OK, the quick debunking
A senior government official who is not a political appointee provided CNSNews.com with copies of the 42 pages of Iraqi Intelligence Service documents. The originals, some of which were hand-written and others typed, are in Arabic. CNSNews.com had the papers translated into English by two individuals separately and independent of each other."
...
"The senior government official and source of the Iraqi intelligence memos, explained that the reason the documents have not been made public before now is that the government has "thousands and thousands of documents waiting to be translated.

"It is unlikely they even know this exists," the source added.

The government official also explained that the motivation for leaking the documents, "is strictly national security and helping with the war on terrorism by focusing this country's attention on facts and away from political posturing.


We are expected to believe that a non-political official, who presumably can read Arabic (because they know what's in the documents, rather than waiting for the official translation process), decides that the best thing to do for national security is to leak the papers to a minor right-wing news website, rather than tell their superiors? Give me a break. That would be the worst thing for national security - close to treason.

Then the proof consists of one page of Arabic, unreadable because it's so small? The National Enquirer usually has better backup for its stories.

Forget this. It's bullshit.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. They are two fringe crakpot organizations
They are :crazy:

When major media sources report it, I'll listen. They have been quite pro-* too...
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fob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
3. Isn't this exactly what CBS said re: Killian memos?
Edited on Mon Oct-04-04 05:52 PM by FoeOfBush
All said they comport with the format, style and content of other Iraqi documents from that era known to be genuine.

Edit: except replace Iraqi with TANG
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
4. Pure bullshit
might as well post an article from the weekly world news.
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radwriter0555 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-05-04 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #4
45. Just say "Let me know when the WHITE HOUSE HOLDS THE PRESS CONFERENCE
about FINDING WMDs in IRAQ..."

Shuts em all up real real fast.
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
5. Total Bullshit, if you cant prove it it s fake...hand written documents
what crap...
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Redleg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
6. We know Iraq HAD wmds but most were destroyed during the 1990s.
Edited on Mon Oct-04-04 06:10 PM by Redleg
As a result of the UN inspection regime and bombing by US planes. Any odd chemical or bio weapons still laying around (if any) are probably inert by now. These right-wing fuckfaces like to say that we liberals and anti-war folks believed that Iraq NEVER had wmds.
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nuxvomica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
7. Link to the "journalistic methodology" for this exclusive story
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=%5CNation%5Carchive%5C200410%5CNAT20041004b.html

-- To protect against the Iraqi intelligence documents being altered or misrepresented on the Internet, CNSNews.com has published only the first of the 42 pages in Arabic, along with the English translation.

:wtf:!

Here's a link to the only document they have published. The original is so tiny, it defies examination.

http://www.cnsnews.com/specialreports/2004/iraq.asp

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say this is bullshit.
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Terran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
8. Why are only low post-count members posting this stuff? n/t
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Elbowroom Donating Member (257 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. gimmie a break dude
i am as anti-Bush...and as liberal/lefty as they come. I posted it here so you would be informed of the next talking point that will probably come your way. I also posted it to see if anybody else had any additional info because usually this place does.

low post count simply means I don't post too often, it doesn't mean that I probably don't agree with the majority of high posters here.
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AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I dont want to burst your bubble here but CNS news is owned by Brett Bozel
Edited on Mon Oct-04-04 07:56 PM by chimpsrsmarter
If you dont know who he is you should google him. Stehen Hayes formally of the Nationial reveiw or weekly standard was leaked a ton of info by D. Feith pertaining to WMD docs, they were discredited and the Feith leak is being looked into. Bozell and Hayes are friends. let me add Laurie Milvoy is wholly without merit.
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Elbowroom Donating Member (257 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. what bubble are you bursting?
thanks for the info!
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
10. They lie every day, why should this time be "perfect" for them?
This is just disinfo they count on wingnut dummies to believe and spread.
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Elbowroom Donating Member (257 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. so how to spread some debunkness?
let's do it
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 08:03 PM
Original message
Try the front page of Sunday's NYT.
.
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Elbowroom Donating Member (257 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
18. linkage?
anything online talking about this news item?
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. Get real. It's been on all the news forums.
Surely if you found this load of LEFT BEHIND crap you could find the real story from yesterday's NYT front page, fer chrissakes.

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Elbowroom Donating Member (257 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. well...if it has been covered with so much depth
gimme the link....gees.....seems like a simple request. :)
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-05-04 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #26
44. You posted these bogus sites but you can't FIND a NYT frontpage story?
NOT credible.

But, here's a link. Happy reading about the LIAR-in-chief who LIED our country into war.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/03/international/middleeast/03tube.html?oref=login&hp
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AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. it's already been debunked on a federal level
this stuff is months old and they are just recycling it and maybe repackaging to make it seem new. CNS is not an actual news source, it's like Drudge.
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FlemingsGhost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #13
25. First, stop hitting their websites.
For once, I believe in "pre-emptive" action ...
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Berserker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. It should say
a steaming pile of shit just found. How can anyone with a brain believe anything they say.
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AnyoneButBush2000 Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Bet ya...
the whole thing's a Rover operation. Found documents from our fax machine sent by the White House!! Must be from Iraq!
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FlemingsGhost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
19. What was the point of posting this nonsense? Really?
I suggest you research your "news" sources before posting this deluded drivel. All you have accomplished is furthering the tentacles of RW propaganda. It is not welcomed here ...
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Elbowroom Donating Member (257 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. to get it debunked
seems that all i am getting is "you should have already debunked it own your own".

no wonder the repubs control the talking points.

i am on your side guys.....why the hell are you attacking me?


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FlemingsGhost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Psst ... it's true! I'm freaking out. October Surprise!
All is lost. Woes is us.

Somebody please debunk this story. Give it attention. Give it attention. Give. It. Attention.

Can you help me out, Elbow. Debunk it for me. I'm too paralyzed in dread and disappointment to use the Google search engine.

Ohhhhh .. Rove has bested us once again.
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Elbowroom Donating Member (257 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. i got an idea
go Cheney yourself......and continue to let others think this shit is true. I have 4 other political forums that this has been posted on and nobody has debunked it yet. you could have helped me, but instead you decided to just pick on me. way to go
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FlemingsGhost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. We can't debunk it. It must be true!
Four more years, I guess.

Sigh ... It's over. I'm gonna find a hole to crawl in ...
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GodHelpUsAll2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #29
36. I just had an epiphany
A little background first. I have spent the last 3.5 months slowly but surely pulling an "undecided" to our side. (That is however, the least of what I am currently and have for the past year an a half been doing for the Democratic Party) Now, I realize that most here think that if you are undecided at this point you must be a complete moron. And to a large degree, I agree with that. However, I was under the impression that it was our DUTY to pull those undecided voters to our side. And hell, even convert a few republicans if we can. So anyway, for the past three months I have been hitting her with facts, and I have taken the "don't take me at my word, go out there and find this information for yourself it's out there to be had" attitude. And she has, she has actually taken the time to research and find out for herself (with a little prodding from me) that I am not just spouting off bullshit and her eyes are opening. I can't say with 100% certainty that she is definitely voting Kerry but I can say with 100% certainty that she is no longer a starry eyed Bush fan. She bitches about him now about as much as I do. Where am I going with all of this you ask? Well, after reading this series of posts, it occurred to me that if I had told her "check out democraticunderground.com" see what's going on there, I can pretty much guarantee that she would have been met with the same hostility that the original poster was and probably called a freeper with a low post count and berated and attacked to the point that it could potentially negate the 3 months I have spent enlightening her. I see the harshness that is dished out in spades right off the bat and I can't help but think to myself, No wonder it's so difficult for us Democrats to pull in new blood. But the question I have is, how many have come here and been genuine in looking to find the truth but have been met with nothing but sheer hatefulness and treated as if they weren't worthy to be among such enlightened pure people? Just my 2 cents. Take it for what it's worth.
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Elbowroom Donating Member (257 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. you nailed it
we must work together to make the changes that we all seem to desire.

Thank you for making such a bold post. I think we can all leanr from it. ...and you know what...that is what us libs seem to be able to do better than anyone esle...learn. Let's get together and focus./ We can make a difference guys.


ps- i am gettin pretty drunk at the moment. : )
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GodHelpUsAll2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Don't give me too much credit
I have had my fair share of moments when I ripped someones head off out of frustration over this whole political mess. And I have been a condescending asshole on more than one occasion. But as I said, I have spent many many many hours on the streets, knocking doors and talking my head off in an attempt to "open peoples eyes". I have learned along the way (and it didn't come right away it took me some time) that I will inevitably run across those who try to lurk in disguise and play along in some effort to try and one-up me. However, if that is the case it will become apparent and I have learned to laugh them off. In my personal experience, laughing in someones face tends to be very effective. But, there are those who just need a little finessing and you can bring them around. It may take an enormous amount of effort, but hey, nothing worth having ever comes easy.
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
21. Hmmm, and this on the heels of Rummy's latest statement.
This is ridiculous.
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Joefess Donating Member (150 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
22. Who the hell is CNS News? LOL
I read it on the interweb, it must be true...
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Christian News Service
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slojim240 Donating Member (481 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
31. Our soldiers were killed for WMD "documents?" Say it isn't so.
Who cares if there are a ton of documents saying Saddam wanted WMDs. He didn't have any, period! There a huge docuement that the Iraqis gave to the US saying they had WMDs and had destroyed them after Desert Storm. So WTF is this all about?
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Nlighten1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
32. Just more bs
How many times to we have to see this crap put out there?
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Waverley_Hills_Hiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
33. More kool-aid for the sheeple
CNS is used as a source for Christian radio, so this is rationalization for "the base".

I would be interesting if it moves beyond the Christian conservative subculture into Drudge and the talk radio circuit.

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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
34. This is a credible news source??? Please. Give me a break.
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GetaKungFuGrip Donating Member (35 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
38. BS, pure and simple...see post...
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
40. ha! It was powerline that broke the CBS story!
What a coinkydink!

Damn them all.
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VOX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
41. I prefer this headline: "Rumsfeld: No evidence of al-Qaida-Iraq link"
Even Rummy admits it! And in the end, he has to grab for the shopworn right-wing talking-point, "better off with Saddam in jail."
What a sad, sad, act.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6180176/
In 2002, he said intelligence was ‘very reliable’
Updated: 7:43 p.m. ET Oct. 4, 2004
WASHINGTON - Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said Monday that he knew of no “strong, hard evidence” linking Saddam Hussein’s Iraq and al-Qaida, despite describing extensive contacts between the two before the invasion of Iraq.
<snip>
“And why the intelligence proved wrong, I’m not in a position to say. I simply don’t know. But the world is a lot better off with Saddam Hussein in jail than they were with him in power,” Rumsfeld added.

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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-04-04 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
42. Funny then, that bush's own handpicked weapons inspector's report
to be released shortly, says, just like bush's first handpicked weapons inspector's reports said; NO WMD since the 1990s and NO TIES to al Qaeda or any other international terrorist organizations.

CNS = total bullshit.
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