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Jack_Dawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 05:25 PM
Original message
Email from Freeper Friend
Can someone refute this for me? We've been going back and forth all day and I'm outta energy. Thx!



I'm not blaming Clinton... however it is very interesting that you subconsciously are aware that the stock market started sliding during Clintons term. It doesn't appear that you have connected the dots that the slide of the stock market subsequently started the lost of jobs, the bankruptcies, government spending... etc.

I'm republican. That doesn't mean that I love Bush and he can do no wrong. Open up your mind a little and look at how one thing can affect another thing.

Oh, I just thought of something else... the terrorists were planning their attack when Clinton was in office too. I guess using your theory we can't blame Clinton for that either because the attacks didn't actually occur until Bush's term. Now as far as Bush's reaction to the July 2001 thing... how many threats do you think the president of a country gets? One a term? I heard that Clinton knew that Bin Laden was planning on using commercial planes to attack America. Why didn't he do something about it? It appears that there are plenty of threats. What about the World Trade center car bombing? Whose shift did that happen on? Boy, I hope it wasn't a republican or I won't hear the last from you.

As for hiding in Nebraska... if you were President were do you think they would take you? Bringing this up is just ridiculous. It appears that you are just looking for things to blame Bush for... You should focus on bringing up real facts that aren't related to items that were already in motion when Bush wasn't in office. And yes... I know there are plenty of them, but perhaps you should save them for the next time you get together with all your Democratic friends. Then you can all have a fun time bashing Bush together.

Hindsight is wonderful... I bet any Democratic president could do a better job knowing what we know now.
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Catch22Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. They love to claim...
that the current economic woes are the result of 9/11. Well, they can't have it both ways. Either Clinton did it or the terra-ists did it. To them, there is no one else accountable.

Take my advice, just agree to disagree. You'll both go to your graves trying to get the last word. If he/she persists, just don't respond.
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Actually, what they like to say
Edited on Tue Sep-28-04 07:13 PM by ComerPerro
Is that Clinton tanked the economy just before leaving office, Bush miraculoulsy fixed it within just a few months of being in office, and then 9/11 broke it again.

Now, this of course leaves a lot of holes and relies on severly flawed logic. But, that is what being a Bush supporter is all about.

After all,

If Bush fixed the economy, why was it still widely recognized as going steadly down the toilet in July and August 2001?

If Bush was able to fix the damage Clinton did to the economy so quickly, and 9/11 was indeed to blame for this recession, why hasn't Bush been able to fix it in the three years he has had?

If it is plausable to say that Bush was able to actually turn the economy back around just a few months after becoming president, then why is 9/11, which happened 8 months into his presidency, not his fault? How is it that he was able to bring about significant economic turnarounds but somehow couldn't read a fucking memo?
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MsUnderstood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
2. The terrorists planned several attacks
One on the eve of 2000 new year (it was thwarted by Clinton)

Clinton had submarines station near Afghanistan for an immediate response to any attacks. Bush pulled the submarines and gave the taliban 43 million dollars in May of 2001 (wonder where Osama got the money for those plane tickets?)
What about the attack of the USS COLE? That happened during Clinton's term, but Bush ignored it. From that attack Bush should know there are people who "hate our freedom" and he should ahve been proactive against terrorism (not reactive)

Bush didn't just hide in Nebraska, he DID NOTHING then hid in NEBRASKA. IF bush was a target, why did he hang out in a school room full of children? If bush were a real president wouldn't he have shut the plans down (not SHOT but closed down all aiports).

And when your freeper guy says "no body could imagine it make sure to remind him we were doing wartime exercises that mimiced 9/11 on 9/11.

Good luck!
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pllib Donating Member (27 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
3. I'll give it a try
Not sure about the stock market - that would be easy enough to check out though. Wouldn't surprise me that it had started to drop after the bubble of the late 90's, but the economy was still growing when Bush took office. If you recall, Bush talked a lot about how bad the economy was, though, in part to sell his tax cuts. The recession that started after Bush took office was a very mild one, by historical standards, and the resulting recovery has been one of the poorest at job creation.

WTC bombing happened what, in Feb 1993, right after Clinton took office? Didn't we arrest and convict four people who carried that out?
How many has Bush arrested and convicted that were involved with 9/11?
And when was that attack planned? During GHWB's term.

Sure, OBL was planning the attack on America before Bush took office. There was a recent NOW on PBS (check out the web-site) that reviewed the 9/11 commission report. OBL gave the go ahead to start planning in 1999. Clinton did double overall counter-terrorism funding, and made the counter-terrorism czar a cabinet-level position. They held regular weekly to bi-weekly meetings with the "principals" - CIA, FBI, Treasury, etc. on counter-terrorism. Those meetings were stopped when Bush took office. Gore had headed a commission that had recommended a number of changes to improve airline safety in the light of terrorism, including better airport screening and entry-proof cockpit cabin doors, which were strongly opposed by the airline industry and the Republican congress. The Clinton adminstration had also proposed a number of changes to banking laws that would have made it more difficult for terrorists to move money around. That one was opposed by that great patriot, Sen. Phil Gramm.

President Clinton did receive a number of threat assessments about the millenium plots, and a number of potential terrorists were arrested, with at least one with a firm plan to bomb LAX. Following the Cole bombing, the Clinton administration developed a comprehensive plan to attack al Qaeda - however the CIA and FBI did not finish their investigation and name al Qaeda responsible until March, 2001. Upon taking office, the Bush admin received 10 security briefings, including one on al Qaeda that was attended by Clinton's National Security Advisor, who warned C. Rice about the threat of al Qaeda.
The Bush administration buried al Qaeda in favor of missile defense and "rogue nations" sponsoring terrorism (so '80's). Upon learning of al Qaeda's involvement in the Cole bombing, the Bush administration did... nothing. Rice said to the 9/11 commission - "that happened during the previous administration and we didn't want to get into a tit-for-tat.Pres.

Bush received a number of threat assessments during the 9 months leading up to 9/11, with both George Tenet and Richard Clarke saying that the system was "blinking red," including specific warnings from intelligence agencies in Egypt and Europe of an al Qaeda plan aimed at the US. The Pres. received an 11 page PDB on this threat in early August, and did nothing. The principals did not meet to discuss counter-terrorism until September 4. On Sept 10, Aschroft turned down request from acting FBI director to increase counter-terrorism funding. In light of these threat assessments, you have to wonder what the hell Bush and his national security team were thinking when the first plane hit the twin towers - weren't they the least bit suspicious? Wouldn't you, if president, decide that figuring out what was going on was more important than doing a photo op in an elementary school? And then after your chief of staff tells you that the country is under attack you sit there for another 7 minutes? That's leadership? I'm a doctor in a residency program. That would be like me sitting in a room with a bunch of medical students for 7 minutes after a nurse tells me that one of my patients with heart disease has just collapsed in the hallway so I don't "upset them."
And the Bush administration plan to roll-back Al Qaeda? Pretty much the Clinton administration plan.

Think about it - if Bush had been making everybody shake the information trees at the FBI and CIA, and were getting these people to talk to each other, as happened during the Clinton administration, the information about terrorists being in the US, Saudi's training at flight schools, etc., might have been put together. We'll never know for sure, but it is clear that 9/11 woke up the Bush administration to the real threat the Clinton administration had been dealing with for 8 years, and that the Gore administration would have continued to fight.

That rant made me feel better, but I bet it won't make a dent in your freeper friend's world view. (by the way - clinton could have done more - he did pull back one opportunity to assassinate OBL because of all the political BS going on with the Monica Lewinsky scandal - not that the Republicans would ever admit that their preoccupation with destroying a president would have any effect on national security.)

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Jack_Dawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. Great points! I'll hit him with them tomorrow...
:toast:
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
4. Clinton arrested and convicted terrorists, thwarted their plans in 2000
But once bin Laden and his cohorts got a look at President Leisure Time (how many jobs do you suppose give you a month's vacation after the first six and a half months?), they knew that the U.S. was ripe for the picking.
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
5. Ask your freep friend if it participated in the propaganda bit where
the stock market was tanking any time Gore scored a point in the after-election-eve battle, and the market soared when Bush beat back another Gore challenge.

As soon as 12/12/2000 hit, the market started falling again. Hmm.

Also, have you noticed that the market has gone back down to 10K again? Today, it closed above 10K, but barely. Great economy.
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Lefty48197 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
6. Actually, the stock market went from about 3500 to well over 10000 during
Clinton's presidency. If they call that "sliding" then perhaps it's just a matter of semantics?
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skygazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
8. Amazing
They make me laugh. Ask him if Kerry's elected and there's another attack the following September if he'll blame Kerry or Bush for it - after all, it would have been planned during Bush's administration.

Everything that's gone wrong was "in motion" before Bush was in office! Why don't Democratic presidents ever get a pass like that?
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
9. "Operation Ignore" - chapter from Al Franken's book
"Lying liars..."

lays it all out very well.
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
10. the economy started sliding as soon as Dubya said the "r" word
...during the debates. He claimed recession was inevitable. As soon as it looked like he was gonna get in, it started.
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manic expression Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
11. Use these answers...
The facts clearly show that the stock market was at its peak when BUSH was in office. There is no doubting that. To say otherwise is falsehood.
Where exactly did you "hear" that Clinton got a report like that. You need a source. Period. Clinton did try to kill Osama bin Laden (cruise missile), and his administration thwarted terrorist attacks (millenium bomber). Bush and his administration, however, did not hold ONE anti-terrorist meeting before 9/11, and the "president" was on vacation over 40% of his time in office. He ignored explicit warnings days before the attacks and did NOTHING. When it happened, he read a book for 7 minutes while people died, then he was bravely locked in a nuclear-proof mountain...decisive, indeed. He then let the bin Laden family out of America with barely any information. Bush then used 9/11 that he allowed to occur to do anything he wanted all the way to the present day.
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
12. another good one
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CornField Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
13. To the terra part -- here's your answer
The USS Cole. The final report by the Navy was not presented to the White House until Jan. 19th (the final day of the Clinton administration). That information -- which absolved the captain and crew from wrong doing and called for bin Laden's head on a silver platter -- was on Little Bush's desk from DAY ONE of his administration. What did he do? He took a vacation... then another... then another... then another... avoided more "terra" documents... took another vacation.

The entire report was formerly located here: http://foia.navy.mil/usscole/
It has since been removed (shortly after 9-11) so the Navy can review FOIA.

Here's a press release that discusses the report: http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/dod/n01222001_200101222.html

In Clinton's final days in office, he managed to capture five men in Yemen in connection with the bombing -- within 3 days of the Jan. 9, 2001 DoD Commission report: http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/yemen_usscole010111.html
and
http://www.defenselink.mil/pubs/cole20010109.html

Not only did the Bush Administration ignore the bin Laden ties to the USS Cole bombing, but a CRS Report was not issued to Congress until Jan. 30, 2001: http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/library/report/crs/RS20721.pdf

So, we have the DoD Commission Report, 5 Yemen mem captured by the Clinton Administration, the Navy JAG Report, and (finally) the CRS to Congress... all in the month of January 2001. Now, with all of this evidence on his desk, how many times did Little Bush mention bin Laden's name between Feb. 2001 and Sept. 11, 2001?

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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
14. I think that I'm gonna lose it...yup, gonna lose it
You know, I'm beyond tired of "oh, yeah, but Clinton/Carter/whomever did/didn't do (insert tired BS here)"

For the love of all that is sweet and nouget-filled, who gives a shit what this person or that person did in the past. Bush is a lying, cheating, corporate ass-kissing, 1,000+ US troop killing, Iraqi civillian murdering, outsourcing-praising, job-costing, no health care promoting, leave all the children behinding, NRA pole smoking, coke-snorting, terrorist recruiting (aiding, abetting, covering, hiding, money dealing, etc) middle class fucking (while tossing the salad of anyone caring to be a Power Ranger or Super Pioneer or whatever crap that is), AWOL/deserting, send-em-to-Nam-to-die-in-my-placing, economy destroying, won't get fooled again-ing pile of political guano. George W. Litterbox is running for prez again, and with this info, a decision is to be made. Now, faced with choices, vote for Kerry and change this shit. I've got an eviction notice for a certain big white house, and I'm serving it on November 2nd. Watch THAT drive, you no talent hack.
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Jack_Dawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Bravo!
Hell that made ME laugh and I've been in a crap mood all day. Especially the salad tossing of power rangers. Nice work.

:toast:
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. ROFL
EXcellent.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
17. Hmm... MY response to your friend:
"I'm not blaming Clinton... however it is very interesting that you subconsciously are aware that the stock market started sliding during Clintons term." I'm glad that you don't blame Clinton, however I find it curious that you can divine the contstructs of my subconscious.

"It doesn't appear that you have connected the dots that the slide of the stock market subsequently started the lost of jobs, the bankruptcies, government spending... etc." - Well, I'm no economist, are you? Can you explain "started the lost of jobs?"

"the terrorists were planning their attack when Clinton was in office too. I guess using your theory we can't blame Clinton for that either because the attacks didn't actually occur until Bush's term." - REALLY? How did you come by this information? What are your sources?... WOW!!! I'm going to call Porter Goss and tell him I have a friend with important information about islamo-terrorist cells!!!

"how many threats do you think the president of a country gets?" - I don't know. Do you know?

"One a term? I heard that Clinton knew that Bin Laden was planning on using commercial planes to attack America." - Do you know Richard Clark personally? How is it that you know but Bush didn't?

"Why didn't he do something about it? It appears that there are plenty of threats." - RIGHT! So whay did Bush let Arab dudes fly huge airplanes into the WTC and the Pentagon?

"What about the World Trade center car bombing?" - What about 9/11?

"Whose shift did that happen on? Boy, I hope it wasn't a republican or I won't hear the last from you" - RIGHT AGAIN!!! You will NEVER hear the last of me because it WAS a republican and that republican fucker is the traitor named Bush!

"As for hiding in Nebraska... if you were President were do you think they would take you? Bringing this up is just ridiculous. It appears that you are just looking for things to blame Bush for..." So, after all this, you still support this genocidal psychopath?

"You should focus on bringing up real facts that aren't related to items that were already in motion when Bush wasn't in office." - OK I will, and you should focus on your enlistment papers so your transition from republican slacker to soldier will be very quick.

"... perhaps you should save them for the next time you get together with all your Democratic friends. Then you can all have a fun time bashing Bush together." - Thanks for the great idea. While you are in Iraq fighting for your leader, we'll have a toast in your name! :toast:
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vajraroshana Donating Member (762 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
18. Stock market started to tank when McCain dropped out
I'm pretty sure about this, but if I'm wrong I'm sure someone will correct it.

It makes sense if you think about it.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
19. Why do you waste your time talking to such seriously deluded....
...idiots?
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Jack_Dawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. Because I obviously hate myself!
Seriously, I think a part of me wants to reach out and throttle someone, so why not start w/ my friends?
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usurper4 Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
21. Ah, just give this to your buddy
Edited on Wed Sep-29-04 12:16 AM by usurper4
Sept 2000: A consulting group, The Project for the New American Century, submits a report to several defense contractors, most notably Halliburton and The Carlyle Group. In it, the group states that military spending will be curtailed without “some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor.” (“Rebuilding America’s Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources
For a New Century”, The Project for the New American Century. September 2000) Remember this.

2000–2001: The military conducts exercises simulating hijacked airliners used as weapons to crash into targets causing mass casualties. One target is the WTC. Another is the Pentagon. (USA Today, 4/19/04) (Military District of Washington, 11/3/00) (New York Times, 10/3/01) (9/11 Commission report)

May 2001: “Though the Department of Defense had no capability in place to protect the Pentagon from an ersatz guided missile in the form of a hijacked 757 airliner, DoD (Department of Defense) medical personnel trained for exactly that scenario in May.” The tri-Service DiLorenzo Health Care Clinic and the Air Force Flight Medicine Clinic train inside the Pentagon this month “to fine-tune their emergency preparedness.” (US Medicine, 10/01)

July 2001: The G8 summit in Italy takes the unusual step of setting up surface-to-air missiles for security purposes. Italy’s Deputy Prime Minister explains that Italian intelligence had uncovered a plan to assassinate Bush during the event by crashing a hijacked commercial airliner into Air Force One or one of the buildings in use for the summit. (9/11 Commission report)

July 26, 2001: Attorney General Ashcroft stops flying commercial airlines due to a threat assessment. (CBS, 7/26/01) In May 2002, Ashcroft walks out of his office rather than answer questions about it. (AP, 5/16/02)

Aug 2001: The World Trade Center begins a series of evacuation drills. According to Ben Fountain, who worked in the South Tower: “They knew this building was a target. Over the past few weeks we’d been evacuated a number of times, which is unusual.” (9/11 Commission report)

Aug 11, 2001: “US Navy Lt. Delmart “Mike” Vreeland, jailed in Toronto on fraud charges and claiming to be an officer in US Naval Intelligence, writes a note which may have contained details of the pending 9/11 attacks, and seals it an envelope which he gives to Canadian authorities. He claims to have been a courier delivering a sealed pouch, which he opened when its recipient failed to show up. The document he claims to have read, written in Russian, not only describes the attack but has the added comment: “Let one happen, stop the rest”. This incident is fraught with controversy, as are the accounts of who Vreeland is and what he has done in the past. (Toronto Star, 10/23/01)

Sept 3, 2001: “Author Salman Rushdie, the target of death threats from radical Muslims for years, is banned by US authorities from taking internal US flights. He says the FAA told his publisher the reason was because it had “intelligence of something about to happen.” (London Times, 9/27/01)

Sept 7, 2001: The State Department issues the following: “American citizens may be the target of a terrorist threat from extremist groups with links to Osama bin Laden’s al Qaeda organization.” (State Department memo, 9/7/01)

Sept 7, 2001: George W. Bush schedules an appearance at the Emma E. Booker Elementary School in Sarasota, Florida. (White House, 9/7/01)

Sept 7, 2001: Florida Governor Jeb Bush calls up the Florida National Guard to aid law enforcement and emergency-management personnel in the event of “civil disturbance.” He also cites their need due to “the potential massive damage to life and property that may result from an act of terrorism….” (Florida National Guard website)
(notice the timing of all the events on Sept 7…looks like somebody received confirmation of the attacks!))

Sept 10, 2001: “Newsweek has learned a group of top Pentagon officials suddenly canceled travel plans for the next morning, apparently because of security concerns." (Newsweek, 9/24/01)

Sept 10, 2001: “Eight hours prior to the attacks, San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown receives a warning from “my security people at the airport” advising him to be cautious in traveling. He was scheduled to fly to New York the next morning.” (San Francisco Chronicle, 9/12/01)

Sept 10, 2001: George W. Bush flies into Florida, stays the night at the Colony Beach and Tennis Resort on Longboat Key, Florida. Surface-to-air missiles have been placed on the roof of the resort. (Sarasota Herald-Tribune, 9/10/02)

Events on Sept 11, 2001 (all times Eastern Standard Time):
Described as a bizarre coincidence, a US intelligence agency was all set for an exercise on Sept 11th at 9 AM in which an aircraft would crash into one of its buildings near Washington, DC. (AP, 8/22/02)

8:46am: Flight 11 strikes the North Tower of the WTC

Between 8:46am and 8:55am: Bush watches, on television, the first plane hitting the North Tower. Bear in mind, there was NO footage of this crash until the next day, when a documentary film crew submitted their footage. Unless you consider the Israeli film crew found at 4:30pm…. Here are Bush’s own words: “I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower - the TV was obviously on. And I used to fly, myself, and I said, well, there's one terrible pilot. I said, it must have been a horrible accident. But I was whisked off there, I didn't have much time to think about it." (White House, 12/4/01)” Could he have just misspoken? Here’s another interview a month later: “Well, I was sitting in a schoolhouse in Florida ... and my Chief of Staff – well, first of all, when we walked into the classroom, I had seen this plane fly into the first building. There was a TV set on. And you know, I thought it was pilot error and I was amazed that anybody could make such a terrible mistake. And something was wrong with the plane..." (White House, 1/5/02) Curious as to what footage he saw? Keep reading.

8:55am: Bush enters Booker Elementary School

9:03am: Flight 175 strikes the South Tower of the WTC

9:16am: Bush finally leaves the school

9:41am: Flight 77 strikes the Pentagon

9:43am: Bush boards Air Force One

10:06am: Flight 94 goes down in Pennsylvania

11:45am: Air Force One lands…in Shreveport, LA and leaves again at 1:30pm

2:50pm: Air Force One lands again…in Omaha, NE.

4:30pm : “Five Israelis are arrested for “puzzling behavior” related to the WTC attacks. They are arrested around 4:30 P.M. after having filmed the burning WTC from the roof of their company's building near Liberty State Park, then shouting in what was interpreted as cries of joy and mockery. They were spotted by a neighbor who called the police and the FBI. The police tracked them down in a van with the words “Urban Moving Systems” written on the side. One man was found with $4,700 in cash hidden in his sock, another had two passports on him, and a box cutter was found in the van. Investigators say that “There are maps of the city in the car with certain places highlighted… It looked like they're hooked in with this. It looked like they knew what was going to happen.” One of these Israelis later says, “Our purpose was to document the event.” The FBI later concludes at least two are Mossad agents and that all were on a Mossad surveillance mission. The FBI interrogates them for weeks. They are held on immigration violation charges and released 71 days later.” (ABC News, 6/21/02)

4:33pm: Air Force One takes off for Washington, DC

6:54pm: Bush finally arrives at the White House. Before going to sleep, Bush writes in his diary, “The Pearl Harbor of the 21st century took place today. ... We think it's Osama bin Laden.” (Washington Post, 1/27/02)
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Jack_Dawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Good Lord...
that can't all be true cause wouldn't ONE media outlet have run w/ it by now? I'm sure part of it is true though which would be disturbing enough...

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usurper4 Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Just corrected it
For some reason, all my citations got deleted.

The only items on this list that can be disputed are the Vreeland part and the part about the Israeli cameramen. Both of which are really unnecessary for this timeline, they simply add a bit more of a "holy shit" factor.

Everything else is easily verifiable, and most were mentioned specifically in the 9/11 Commission report.

Why hasn't the press jumped all over this? Perhaps because we don't want to accept the possibility that Bush sacrificed 3000 people on 9/11 and another 1000 since.
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 12:27 AM
Response to Original message
25. I just want to know why you have a freeper "friend."
I don't. I wouldn't. Tell your "friend" to go sign up for active duty in Iraq.

Bake
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Jack_Dawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. We were friends before election year
Usually we go fishing, watch football and chase girls. On that level we're fine. Politics...not so much but I'm not gonna throw the baby out w/ the bathwater. Besides, I'm working on him. He'll may come around...

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