"Under God"

[nyhuskyfan]

I'm sure this has been discussed many times before, but much has been made of the controversy to leave in or take out the words "Under God" from the pledge of allegiance. AAR and Randi just had a mention about it in its hourly news update about the bill from Republicans which would prevent anyone from removing "Under God" from the pledge.

Frankly, I've thought for a long time that the whole thing should go. Why are we teaching children to stand up and recite a pledge of loyalty when they probably only understand half the words they're even saying? It seems like something that a totalitarian regime would do to force its population to give blind loyalty to its king as the henchmen ride around and chop off people's limbs.

I'm sure freeperville would ask why I hate America so much, but I just don't think a mandatory pledge of loyalty is something that belongs in our classrooms. We should be teaching children to think, to be able to learn right from wrong, and to be able to respect the ideals that this country stands for, while insisting that part of what makes it great is the fact that we do NOT have to blindly pledge allegiance to anyone or anything. We can speak up when we feel our country is in the wrong. We can change things, we can criticize, and we can protest.

Plus, it's very isolationist. We should be able to welcome people from other nations and other cultures and learn from them. A pledge of humanity would be far more appropriate.

I frankly think the entire pledge of allegiance is decidedly un-American.

[annabanana]

1. see my sig line

THIS I can pledge to.

[cheezus]

2. it was added in the 50's to intimidate atheists

at the height of the red scare they changed the pledge as a direct attack on atheists.

if it had been this way forever, and innocent (like on the currency) I could get over it. but the purpose was religious bigotry, and it thus must go

[politicat]

7. Cheezus, it's not been on the currency forever, and it's not innocent.

It came on the currency at about the same time and was again intended to intimidate those godless commies.

I have some pre-54 currency without the IGWT. It's pretty cheap at any numismatic shop.

Pcat

[cheezus]

3. the other thing i don't get -- isn't there a commandment

where god specifically says you're not allowed to pray to an object like the flag, you can only pray to him

what is the deal with religious nuts?!

[skygazer]

4. I've always been wierded out by the pledge

Oaths of allegiance by all citizens are not the type of thing I think the founding fathers were after. It's more of a totalitarian concept. Also, since it begins by pledging allegiance to the flag, it's even stranger. I'm not into worshipping idols, thank you very much, and my allegiance is not to a flag.

[no_hypocrisy]

Agreed. The Pledge didn't mean anything to me in Kindergarten when I

was first taught it. Everyone got a turn holding a flag on a stick while the others saluted it and him/her. But we didn't know what a pledge, allegiance, United States of America, republic, nation, "under God", indivisible, and/or liberty was/were. Meaningless words to be memorized.

Each day in class thereafter, Grades 1 through Graduation Day in high school, the Pledge. Teachers made the more reluctant homeroomers stand up even if they didn't want to say it in high school. All of us looked around the room to see who was and who wasn't saying it out of boredom. Current events outside the school never made one day of the Pledge more meaningful than the next. And certainly "under God" didn't spice it up anymore - we didn't "love" the country or care about it more or less with those magic words.

I don't see how the inclusion or exclusion of "under God" will produce better student, better patriotics, or better robots, which is all schools are expected to produce IMHO (and this is being on the other side of the room as a teacher).

[derby378]

5. I would counter, however...

...that our nation was founded by people from diverse nations and cultures, although assimilation has often come with struggle. We encompass the formerly French holdings of the Louisiana Purchase, former Spanish and Mexican territory in the Southwest, and even old stomping grounds for Russian traders and explorers in Alaska and pieces of Washington. Not to mention New England, of course, whose name needs little elaboration.

In addition to the tribes and nations that occupied this land before the first permanent European settlements, our population encompasses Hispanics, French, Nigerians, Senegalese, Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, Korean, English, Scots, Irish, Welsh, Italians, Germans, Rom (Gypsies), Jews, Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, Turks, and a whole host of others.

If you want a pledge to all of humanity, then all of humanity is represented by the American dream. We're already here.

Just a thought...

[Journeyman]

6. I prefer the "Patriots' Digest" version. . .

"I pledge allegiance to liberty and justice for all."


Now there's an oath I can rally behind!

[Pillowbiter]

8. Yeah, that's closer to what it should be

Or maybe, I pledge allegiance to the ideas behind the constitution of the USA.

That will get some Repugs to leave the country if anything will.

PB

[Tamyrlin79]

9. Surrendering the moral high road.

By becoming more theistic with "under god" in the 50's in opposition to the atheistic communists, America surrendered the secular moral highground that it had until then occupied. Enforced theism is no better than enforced atheism. Secularism is the middle ground that allows both atheism and theism to peacefully coexist.

[JHB]

10. I Pledge a Legion,

Tula Flagg,...

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

11. One of my big pet peeves...

First of all, we don't need to recite a pledge to admire, love or honor a country.... the pledge does not make one more inclined to be patriotic, any more than singing an opera aria will make you go to La Scala the next day. Secondly, what does saying "under God" really accomplish? Is God going to say "ooohhhh! they're saying my name, ergo they deserve my blessing!"....

And, more importantly, whose God, under whose interpretation, and why not Gods, invisible pink unicorns, etc.?

If one's patriotism is dictated by whether or not one recites the Pledge, then that patriotism is on thin ice indeed... If one's devotion/faith in God changes upon the recitation of the Pledge, then that faith/devotion is indeed on thin ice... sigh!