As went Enron, so goes America?

[gristy]

I understand what Enron executives Ken Lay, Jeffrey Skilling, Andrew Fastow, etc. were almost certainly thinking as they drove their company into the ground at a high rate of speed. Using complicated financial partnerships, they hid the true sorry state of their company until they (their company, not themselves personally) were essentially bankrupt. They were thinking "get as much as I can for myself before this thing crashes and burns!" And it's safe to say there were many execs NOT in the inner circle who were simply in a state of plausible denial as Enron approached the edge of the cliff from which it fell. And there were many, many Enron employees and investors who really thought that their company was the greatest and had figured out how to break so many of those established rules of business over the long term, thereby achieving unheard-of profits.

Could it be that this country's executives - bush*, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and their corporate partners - are thinking the same thing as they appear to be driving our country into the ground? That they are thinking "get as much as I can for myself before this thing crashes and burns?" That it's safe to say that there are probably many execs NOT in the inner circle (e.g. Congress) who are in a state of plausible denial as our country approaches the edge of the cliff from which it will fall? And that there are many, many citizens/investors who really think that our country is the greatest and has figured out how to break so many of those established rules of diplomacy/fiscal-conduct/corporate-regulation over the long term? But that it's all a scam, and the cliff edge approaches?

Yes, to all those questions. I believe the answer is yes. In the 14 months they have left to pillage our country and the world, I do believe they will finish the job.

[gristy]

1. Hmmm, 30 minutes and no comment

one way or another to my "dooms-day" proposition. Does one have to start a flame thread to get the action around here?

Geez, I hate talkin' to myself... :(

p.s. My cat came home from the kennel yesterday all congested. Poor Misty.

[Solomon]

3. Hey. You're right.

Bush campaigned on the we'll run it like corporate CEOs thing. But that was before the corporate explosions. Then he comes out and brags that he is prosecuting corporate fraud, and so far, we get Martha Stewart. Where the **** is Ken Lay? I don't think the last blackout was an accident either.

[gristy]

4. so far, we get Martha Stewart

I heard that she is a Dem. So that explains that.

[ComerPerro]

2. I think that is a good analogy

They are getting whatever they can.

[Marlie]

9. Bush is right on target

Put all the money into the military and Iraq, drive down the
middle class to the lower class, thus Corporate America suceeds.
People will gladly work over here in the USA for hardly anything
and be damned grateful. All social programs will have to be cut,
also fitting their plan perfectly. We may think Bush is dumb -
I think things are working out just as planned and everyone is
allowing the plan to succeed. Yep, just as the Enron bastards,
the Bushies and their like will come out smelling like roses.
Do they really care if a Republican is elected President in 2004?
The damage is done..

Remember five years ago kids getting out of college could demand a
fair salary, good insurance benefits, etc., plus get a car if they
could recommend a friend to work for the same Company? The middle
class were getting too big for their britches and that wasn't the
way it was supposed to be here in America. Good old Alan Greenspan
raised the interest rate, I believe six times the last year Clinton
was in office, saying there weren't enough people to fill positions
thus this made it necessary to raise interest rates - could never
figure that one out at the time, now I get it.

[hang a left]

5. yes I have had the same

thoughts. They have already robbed our treasury. Privatized this privatize that. I think that you are right, although alot of people don't like to talk about the conspiracy theories from the websites that DU actually has links to.

From stealing elections, killing our kids in Iraq, questionable suicides and plane crashes, murdering of microbiologists, to robbing our treasury, 9/11 cover-ups(at best)to the patriot act, to globalization, new world order, bush crime family, shadow governments, drug smuggling, high finance money laundering, on and on and on and on.

Sometimes I think, is the next presidential election gonna fix all this, should I consider Dean or Kerry or Clark, Is Lieberman the antichrist(just kidding). There is some serious shit going down in this country and the world, and it is very scary. But, most people around here at times just want to talk about presidential candidates most of the time. I've started threads, but just like you, I travel on to the third page in about an hour.

You get here and then you find out stuff you had actually no idea about. It was much easier living in the pink cloud, in the cushy life I have. But see I have 2 sons, one 16 and one 9. So I got to start thinking about the country we leave to them.

I still love DU, and am very proud of the people here. I am completely addicted. DU is my drug of choice.

[gristy]

6. What if the U.S. goes "bankrupt"?

What if indeed bushco continues to pillage our country to the point of bankruptcy? Now, I have a feeling that countries don't go "bankrupt" - not in the sense that its assets might be liquidated by its "investors" (bondholders, for the most part?). I'd love to hear Krugman describe what the "bankruptcy" of America could look like. I just can't begin to guess what it would mean.

[gristy]

8. Here's the email I just sent to Krugman

Dr. Krugman,

I'd like to ask you to consider a subject for your NY Times column: What would a "bankruptcy" of the United States look like? Now, I have a feeling that the U.S. can't go bankrupt in the traditional sense of a corporation. But the way our government continues to accumulate debt, it just seems that something has to give!!

Again: What would a "bankruptcy" of the United States look like?

Inquiring minds would like to know, so that we'll know what it is when it happens!

Your Fan,

[maggrwaggr]

7. yeah, for a time I thought "they probably don't even want a 2nd term"

I figured they'd just rape the place as best they could then go through the revolving door into an extremely cushy corporate life.

We gave them the keys to the safe, why spend any more time in there than necessary?

I mean think of how Halliburton or any oil company will reward them once they're out. Why put it off? Why not "go pro" early?

[Marlie]

10. Gristy

Hope Misty gets better. Your post was great but sometimes we read
a post like yours, we agree so totally and are just too burned out
to reply because what's going on is so terrible. I don't mean to
bash the dems, I will also be a strong liberal, but how have they
allowed this to happen - to let things get to out of control?
They have enabled this Administration to possibly bring our country
to it's knees. These democrats and their families will also be
safe, because the majority of them are millionaires themselves.
As for the rest of us...who knows what our futures hold.

[gristy]

11. thanks for posting, Marlie

You make a good point - that the dems in Washington share some responsiblity with the rich ruling class of repubs for our situation. By their own inaction, if nothing else. Perhaps the masses are headed for an existence similar to those in 3rd world contries and will struggle just to survive on the scraps left for us.

I've heard this said before: that our 200 year success of a democracy is not a guarantee of future success. That Americans think this wonderful country of ours is forever. That far too many think you can beat it, strip its gears, and run it over a cliff and it will always come out shiny and new after just running it through the car wash.

[gristy]

12. So I wrote Dr. Krugman again this morning.

I've written him in the past - after one letter where I mentioned the book "Wealth and Democracy" about the rise of the American Plutocracy (and the decline of the middle class) by Kevin Phillips, he mentioned the book in a column about a week later. So I think I got read that time, anyways.

Anyone else have any comments on this thread?

Dr. Krugman,

Below is something I wrote yesterday which prompted the above email/suggestion to you yesterday. I am thinking that you might not take me up on this idea because perhaps the answer is just unknowable. And that trying to answer would open you up to a LOT of criticism, as if you don't get enough already. But please consider it. Lay out your best-guess economic/quality-of-life scenario if Bush is re-elected and this abject looting of our country continues for another 62 months.

If not you, then who?

Best Regards,


Here's what I wrote:

As went Enron, so goes America?

I understand what Enron executives Ken Lay, Jeffrey Skilling, Andrew Fastow, etc. were almost certainly thinking as they drove their company into the ground at a high rate of speed. Using complicated financial partnerships, they hid the true sorry state of their company until they (their company, not themselves personally) were essentially bankrupt. They were thinking "get as much as I can for myself before this thing crashes and burns!" And it's safe to say there were many execs NOT in the inner circle who were simply in a state of plausible denial as Enron approached the edge of the cliff from which it fell. And there were many, many Enron employees and investors who really thought that their company was the greatest and had figured out how to break so many of those established rules of business over the long term, thereby achieving unheard-of profits.

Could it be that this country's executives - bush*, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and their corporate partners - are thinking the same thing as they appear to be driving our country into the ground? That they are thinking "get as much as I can for myself before this thing crashes and burns?" That it's safe to say that there are probably many execs NOT in the inner circle (e.g. Congress) who are in a state of plausible denial as our country approaches the edge of the cliff from which it will fall? And that there are many, many citizens/investors who really think that our country is the greatest and has figured out how to break so many of those established rules of diplomacy/fiscal-conduct/corporate-regulation over the long term? But that it's all a scam, and the cliff edge approaches?

Yes, to all those questions. I believe the answer is yes. In the 14 months they have left to pillage our country and the world, I do believe they will finish the job.

[markses]

13. It's that they thought they COULD pillage, but circumstances

conspired against their scheme. That was the story with Enron. They certainly robbed it and its investors blind, but Skilling, Fastow, Lay and Co. always thought - right up until October 2001 - that they could pull the baby from the fire. It was rapid change that foiled them. They hit $3 billion in credit in October, and the cash was gone by November. Why? Their trading partners began demanding cash collateral, since the enterprise was faltering. And so it faltered more, and more. Even up to the last minute merger plans, Lay thought he could pull it out. He was wrong, since the whole business was a ship built on lies and bubble gum.

Analogy with the US under Bush? Damn right, I'm afraid. The tax cuts are directly analogous to the overinflated impression of the country's value. The only thing it all stands on is the CONFIDENCE of the world financial markets in US national stability (financial and military). That's all. Ther is no fundamental US strength. It is a confidence game, as is all finance. Unfortunately, the Iraq adventure is our CHEWCO, our thoroughly busted related-party transaction. We're bleeding cash and, well, blood. The two shining pillars that provoke confidence are faltering, and the whole enterprise is in deep trouble. Bush will have bankrupted us. Or rather, the global crisis in capital, together with Bush's criminal looting of the US Treasury will exactly mirror the rapid decline of the US financial markets, together with the criminal looting of Enron's equity. The inflated estimates of the surplus over time - those inflated estimates that allowed the tax cuts to sound reasonable - were, in fact, mark-to-market accounting techniques perfected by the Enron criminals. The IMF's sudden discomfort with the US budget deficit is analagous to the first SEC "informal investigation" into Enron's financial statements. BIG PROBLEM: When these things are in a death spiral, they go DAMN FAST!

It will get interesting, in the manner of the old curse: We will indeed live in interesting times...

[gristy]

14. Thanks, markses

I heard on the BBC World Report just now about the IMF's concerns about the U.S. budget deficit. The reporter said that the IMF thinks the current budget deficit will reach $550B. The latest gov't (CBO?) estimate is $480B. At $550B, that is 5% of GDP, said the reporter. Countries in the European Union are required to hold their deficits below 3% of GDP. That 5% of GDP is a number that is 66% higher than 3% of GDP! Just more evidence of bushco's belief that they (like Enron's execs) can do whatever they want and yet avoid paying the price.

We're Amerika! We can do ANYYYYYTHING! We're the greatest!

not

[prolesunited]

15. Pick up September's issue of Harper's

Lewis Lapham did an excellent analysis of how this administration is running the country just like a business -- Worldcom or Enron, that is. He also ties it into the Western approach of get in and get out.

In fact, I think you two are sharing the same brain. ;-) You will enjoy the article immensely. You can always read it at the library or the bookstore if you don't have a subscription.

[gristy]

16. Thanks, prolesunited

I'll pick it up. September issue of Harper's.

[gristy]

17. Kick for the Saturday night crowd

Comments welcome! I'll be back in a little bit. Studying for the LSAT...