Dean's Gun Law Position Problem!

[usregimechange]

As a local Dean Meetup Host I can tell you that many Dems are confused by Dean's position on gun laws. They find it too conservative. What can I tell them to keep them on board?

[jagguy]

1. it will be his big chance at getting some swing votes

and its Constitutionally protected. For starters.

[harrison]

5. Well, is it more important for Dean to be "right" on the gun issue, or

do we want to get Bush out of the WHouse? We cannot be split on wedge issues like guns.

[Clete]

2. Tell them four more years of Bush if they don't get

back the southern and rural vote. He believes that each community should handle guns as they see best. I think it's a sensible solution.

[billbuckhead]

3. With a NRA rating of A+ , you can say nothing.

This is a reality check for most liberals. To hook up with Dean is to hook up with Wayne, Charlton, Grover, Ted and the rest of the gun worshippers.

[dajabr]

9. Now it's an A+ !!!

When did that happen? :eyes:

I would explain it this way:

Gun Legislation: The "A" rating that Dean has received from the NRA is chilling, but it has to be taken in context. As Lance Bukoff points out, "the NRA rating system is actually rather 'passive' in its assessment of politicians. Put simply but accurately, an 'A' rating is 'earned' by not voting for or promoting any laws which would restrict gun ownership. Dean observes that Vermont is not NYC or LA or Philadelphia. Vermont is a state where gun violence does not occur in any way significant enough to warrant restrictive gun control laws, unless you take the deer's point of view, of course. So he says Vermont does not need them, and he did not sign any, and he did not promote any as a governor, and as a consequence he gets an 'A' rating from the NRA, but not because he shares a duck blind with NRA members. He goes further. He says he supports the Brady bill, he supports the assault gun ban, and he supports closing the gun show sale loopholes. And he also tells voters in states like New York, 'We don't need gun control laws in Vermont, but you probably do, and if that's the case you should make them.'"

http://deandefense.org/archives/000596.html

[IndianaGreen]

10. Would you rather have the rightwing being the only ones that are armed?

"Thirty-one states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

--Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

We did. There are now over 35 Pink Pistols chapters nationwide, and more are starting up every day. We are dedicated to the legal, safe, and responsible use of firearms for self-defense of the sexual-minority community. We no longer believe it is the right of those who hate and fear gay, lesbian, bi, trans, or polyamorous persons to use us as targets for their rage. Self-defense is our RIGHT.

The Pink Pistols get together at least once a month at local firing ranges to practice shooting, and to acquaint people new to firearms with them. We will help you select a firearm, acquire a permit, and receive proper training in its safe and legal use for self-defense. The more people know that members of our community may be armed, the less likely they will be to single us out for attack. Join us today. It is your RIGHT.

http://www.pinkpistols.org/index2.html

[CarlBallard]

17. I love it

Pick on someone your own caliber!

[dsc]

23. I don't agree with this

I am gay and have been attacked but I still won't carry a gun nor would I encourage anyone else to do so. It is vastly more common that the weapon is used in anger or mistakenly against a loved one than to prevent an attack. The cure is worse than the problem.

[dsc]

20. Please site where

any of the people you mentioned support any of the following. The assult weapons ban, the Brady bill, closing the gun show loophole. Also please cite where those people are in favor of permitting localities to sue gun manufacturers. Dean is in favor of all of those.

[RamboLiberal]

24. Tell them no matter his gun rating the NRA will savage him

in '04!

NRA will be passing out the Bush/Cheney stickers in '04, not Dean with his A NRA rating.

If this one issue prevents them from voting for Dean or any other Dem then we're going to lose.

With a Repug congress a Dem president is going to have a helluva time just keeping the current laws intact.

Dems have to let go of this issue for awhile. And Dems also need to get better educated on firearms. Sometimes we pass dumb gun laws - I think the assault weapon ban was a "feel good" law that made no sense. Same thing with the idea of keeping test bullets/casings(one can easily alter that). I'd rather see that every gun sale has a background check, that straw purchase are prosecuted, that firearms can be better traced to a criminal, etc.

And have they been listening to Dean? He said we're not going to agree with everything he says!

[dsc]

28. The NRA will endorse Bush

but many of its members may vote for Dean if they feel he is reasonable on guns. In addition many other gun owners will vote for Dean if he is reasonable on guns. Like it or not guns are very important to many people. I am very baffled but I know many of these people. They do exist.

[Disandra]

4. Tell them....

"Four more years of Bush."

If that doesn't scare them, I don't know what will. :-)

[rustydog]

6. This is so simple I can't believe it....

"You can vote for Dean or Bush." Your choice.

[IndianaGreen]

7. The right to bear arms is a civil right, like freedom of speech or press

Dean's position on gun control is mainstream and sensible. As a matter of fact it is too mainstream, since I favor repeal of all federal gun laws, letting the states to regulate the militia without infringing on RTBA.

Here is the link to Dean's position on sensible gun control:

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_statement_civilrights_sensiblegunlaws

[MercutioATC]

8. New York and Montana don't need the same restrictions...

Dean supports all current federal legislation PLUS closing the gunshow loophole.

Beyond that, he leaves it to the states to draft their own gun legislation based on their needs.

It really is that simple.

[fabius]

11. Dean's position is for true federalism

...or "States Rights" as the Confederates like to mistakenly call it. (People have rights, states have powers)...

...Anyway, let the states decide what kind of gun regs to have in each state. Doesn't interfere with the Second Amendment. Don't prevent them just don't make it a federal case.

Southerners and Westerners like "States Rights" arguments, and the unemployed Freepers that like to hunt may vote for Dean if the anti-gun tag is taken away.

Dean take this position out of conviction I believe, even if I don't totally agree with it we have bigger fish to fry.

In fact I find Asscroft, Patriot and Victory a pretty good reason to maybe go out and buy some more guns.

[Cha]

22. Your last sentence is why I say I don't want guns around me

Now! But I reserve the right to change my mind!

[Frances]

12. Mark Warner

would not be the Democratic governor of Virginia if he had not taken the same positon as Dean.

I grew up in a rural area as did my husband. We can both remember when people would have gone hungry if they had not been able to go hunting. This is a tradition that has been passed down for generations and I'm not about to tell all of my relatives that they can't hunt.

On the other hand, I have lived for many years in suburbia and I personally support gun control laws in states with mainly urban populations.

I have come to the conclusion that this is an issue that as a practical matter is best left up to the states.

[Cha]

21. I was in Virginia for a little while when Mark Warner's campaign

was going on and I know he wouldn't have won without a stance of not trying to take the friggin' guns away!

I personally don't want a gun around where I am! Right now, anyway.

But I am okay with the States making their own laws.

[Man_in_the_Moon]

13. I just get the feeling he is being two-faced on guns

Look as his statement

He says 'let the states decide', then says he supports the Brady Bill (federal law), the Assault Weapon Ban (another federal law), and closing the gun show loophole (and since this is grouped with two other federal laws, I assume he means at a federal level).

What happened to 'let the states decide'?

He supports one decent federal law, one silly one, and one that fixes an imaginary problem.

In other words he is going to get slaughtered on guns with the position he seems to have taken.

[liberalmuse]

16. In other words...

Dean believes in keeping the current laws in place, and letting the states decide if they want to go more strict or lax on guns. The states can still allow concealed weapons in churches, for instance while keeping within the current federal guidelines. I don't see anything two-faced about that. I don't like guns and don't own one, but let's be realistic, a lot of Americans do. We would have another prohibition if our government banned guns, or got really heavy handed with the gun laws.

[usregimechange]

14. well..

I am not sure if all of that helps much as I will sound like a republican but I will make the pitch. Dean's record in vermont (tax cuts and surplus, 99% kiddos w/ insurance) and his energy is stunning. I was a kerryite than I read more and heard him speak and I was sold. He also has given us a wonderful opportunity to organize local dems. The time to prepare for the election is not a month before the polls open!

[liberalmuse]

15. I think Dean is right on guns...

Let each state decide. Keep the current laws in place. You aren't going to take guns away from Americans without a huge fight. Banning guns is not going to work because like it or not, they are an integral part of American culture/identity, and have been for centuries. Americans need to become more educated so they are less suseptible to media brainwashing and fear mongering. Then maybe will evolve past the need to brandish guns and shoot the crap out of each other.

[sandnsea]

18. cholera

Stricter national immigration laws were created in the early 1900's even though states said it infringed on State's rights. It was argued that the reason this was a National issue was because disease didn't respect state boundaries. However, if there is a local outbreak of West Nile today, we aren't going to have National mosquito spraying to manage it.

In that way, there are some laws at the Federal level to regulate the most dangerous weapons and situations where weapons can fall into the wrong hands and cause harm across state lines. But this doesn't mean the Federal government needs to micromanage every gun at the local level. Some cities and states will choose bans or strict regulation, others will choose lesser regulation, according to the needs of the local community.

I don't know if this is a good analogy or not, but it sounded good floating around in my head.

[usregimechange]

19. great!

Can I quote you? That was what I was looking for.

[sandnsea]

25. but of course...

I consider DU 'open source'. I'd be interested to know how it goes!

[LogicTrueFalse]

26. Tell them after elected he'll ban all guns

Once you're in you're it.

[robbedvoter]

27. You can tell me nothing now. NRA =PNAC in my book.

If he gets nominated, I'll vote for him, but for now, in spite of all other qualities he has, I do not get on board.
PS the equivalency in the title is a measure in evildueness, not confusion.

[dsc]

29. Tell me what Sarah Brady

could get passed through any Congress we could possibly have in 05 that Dean doesn't favor. Just one thing.

[w4rma]

30. This is Dean's position on guns. It's really very simple to explain, IMHO

Gov. Howard Dean (D-VT) on gun regulation (states' rights, pro-gun)
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=431382

IMHO, he's trying to be as straightfoward as he can. He says he doesn't want to add any more federal laws (except the closing of the "gun show loophole"). And he doesn't want to remove any of the federal laws currently on the books (including the AWB). He says that is as far as he is willing to go (in both directions).

…
Let's keep and enforce the federal gun laws we have, close the gun show loophole using Insta-check, and then let the states decide for themselves what if any gun control laws they want.
…
http://www.issues2000.org/2004/Howard_Dean_Gun_Control.htm

[ComerPerro]

31. They have a choice

Dean's stance on guns can alienate them.

So they get four more years (maybe more) of Bush. Fully automatic assault rifles will be legal and avalible at your nearest Wal-Mart by 2008 if that happens. Plus, you get 1,000 free rounds of ammuntion for every ID of a liberal you have killed.

Now thats a bit extreme.
But the republicans are lying, so I figure I may as well exaggerate a bit.

Would you rather have someone like Dean, who has a moderate stance on gun control?
Or do you prefer a fanatic, zealot, zionist nut like Bush and his cronies?

See you at church Sunday! ITS THE LAW, Mandatory Attendance at Sunday services.

[Ein]

32. The truth n/t