A Dem administration will have to elected to clean up another war the

[jumpstart33]

Republicans started and couldn't win.

[slojim240]

1. I hear ya! You may be on to something.

Seems that's what history I remember.

[partygirl]

2. I don't remember

sorry. Please which wars were started by Republicans and then Democrats came in and fixed the mess? This would be a great point for me to hammer home if I had the facts.

I really appreciate it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. Vietnam!!

Eisenhower sent in the first military 'advisors' in 1956. The first death of an American soldier in Vietnam was 1957. Kennedy wasn't elected until 1960.

[partygirl]

4. as far as I knew

Eisenhower was dead set against commitment of ground troops to Vietnam. He just supported bombing. That was what I was taught in history? (my mother is a history professor--so although I don't know everything, I have been exposed to a lot more of this than lots of people my age.)

Committment of ground troops was begun under Kennedy. Or do you know something that the historians do not?

[partygirl]

5. I need to add--Eisenhower's

policies and theories (like the Domino Theory) were probably the reason why future presidents committed so much effort to Vietnam---

http://www.uiowa.edu/~c030162/Common/Handouts/POTUS/IKE.html

But he did not commit all those troops himself. And with hindsight (which is 20-20 as we know) we have to admit that the Domino theory was pretty good wasn't it! That is why smart guys like Kennedy believed it and history proved them to be right.

But--even if you believe that the Republicans got us INTO Vietname (which is very iffy) how did the DEMOCRATS get us out?

[partygirl]

6. I am the most partisan Democrat

in the whole world but I cannot stand it when people either 1)do not know about history 2) do not care about history or 3) misrepresent history.

History is one of the few things I take seriously.

But I would love to hear how a Democratic administration came and cleaned up the Vietnam mess--I can hardly wait to have you explain it to me, so that I can spring on my mom something that she (with her fancy pHd in history) does not know.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

12. IMHO, you seem to be the one who is a little confused about which...

...president committed the first combat advisors to South Vietnam. That would be Eisenhower in 1954, following the defeat of the French at Dien Bien Phu. The first American death in Vietnam took place in 1956. The last time I looked, Eisenhower was president from 1952 to 1960, and Nixon was his VP.

Here is a year-by-year breakdown of American deaths in Vietnam from the " Combat Area Casualties Current File (CACCF) in the Records of the Office of the Secretary of Defense (Record Group 330).":

<http://www.archives.gov/research_room/research_topics/vietnam_war_casualty_lists/statistics.html#year>

Kennedy authorized the issuance of NSAM 263 on October 11, 1963, authorizing the withdrawal of the first 1,000 troops from Vietnam.

<http://www.jfklancer.com/NSAM263.html>

On November 26, 1963, just four days after Kennedy's assassination, LBJ authorized the release of NSAM 273. NSAM 273 was the document that clearly showed LBJ's willingness, backed by the military-industrial complex as well as Big Oil, to escalate the war in Vietnam:

<http://www.jfklancer.com/NSAM273.html>

President Nixon actually presided over the end of American military involvement in the Vietnam War in 1973, five long years after LBJ decided not to run again for president. President Ford, our very first unelected VP and President, was the president who was in office when South Vietnam was finally overrun by the North Vietnamese. Ford attempted to secure additional funding for the rapidly deteriorating South Vietnamese government but could not get it through Congress.

I tend to view folks who believe that Kennedy was the first president to commit military advisors/troops to Vietnam as being one of the following:

1)Those who are lacking in basic knowledge about the history of American involvement in the Vietnam conflict;

2)Those who don't care about history;

3)Those who deliberately attempt to mislead others by manipulating actual historical facts.

By the way, I earned BAs in History and Political Science at Virginia Tech about thirty years ago, have personally served on active duty in the military, and consider myself to be an amateur military historian.

[delete_bush]

13. in this case,

try door #3

[noiretextatique]

14. the domino theory is an updated version of

the white man's burden. in its current reincarnation, it's pnac's vision of world domination. it's wasn't (and isn't) "pretty" or "good".

[Lithos]

7. Some examples

I'm not going to say that Dem's have been perfect, but I am going to prove the Pukes have not been pure either. A brief glance at history which should be available to a novice reader yields the following examples:

Philippines - Conquered by a Republican, given sovereign status by Roosevelt/Truman.

Vietnam - Yes Eisenhower got us started with advisors. He also worked against any attempt at free and fair elections in Vietnam knowing that the vast majority of Vietnamese would have voted for Ho Chi Minh. Instead, in a series of clandestine moves which resulted in the installation of a US backed dictator, Diem, who instituted a reign of political terror.

To help support Diem's very shaky government, Eisenhower sent in Special Forces to help train the S. Vietnamese Army. These men were involved in direct combat by 1959.

It was Eisenhower who pushed Castro into the Soviet Union's hands. Castro initially was non-aligned and would have preferred a friendly relationship with the US. Eisenhower rebuffed Castro opting instead to maintain support for the corrupt Batista. Eisenhower also was the one who initiated the fiasco known as the Bay of Pigs. While it occurred under Kennedy's tenure, it was extremely early in Kennedy's tenure with the planning and implementation details happening under Eisenhower's watch. The CIA also failed to fully inform Kennedy of the full status of the situation. It was Kennedy who ended up neutralizing a now hostile Cuba through the successful and peaceful resolution of the Cuban Missile Crisis.

As for ending Vietnam, while LBJ did escalate the war in 1965-67, he had already started a process for peace that was stopped and reversed by Nixon who, despite promises, severely expanded the operation to formally include Cambodia and Laos resulting eventually in their overthrown by Communist elements. Nixon also lied about ending the war and purposefully kept the war going to the benefit of his friends running the defense contractors.

It was Carter who returned the Panama Canal back to the Panamanians who it was stolen from (By Theodore Roosevelt).

Moving on, you have Clinton fixing Bush I's, ill-fated entry into Somalia.

Clinton also helped fixed Ford's sell out of the East Timorese in 1975.

And let's not forget Clinton's ending of the very long and bloody campaigns in Latin America (El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaraugua). Note too that the Democratic congress helped put limits on Reagan's contras which helped slow down some of the barbarism going on in Nicaragua.

As for the reverse, the dirty tricks of the Repukes stopped several promising Democratic Overtures for peace including ending Carter's hostage negotiations in Iran as well as sabotaging Clinton's efforts in Israel. You also have Shrub's destruction of Clinton's successes with N. Korea which have brought the peninsula closer to war, not farther.

[rasputin1952]

8. I might add Smedley Butler's speech to Congress way back...

at the turn of the century, speaks volumes of what he saw this country becoming.

Smedley Butler, the First Commandant of the Marine Corps, twice awarded the Medal of Honor, stood before Congress and told them he would not lead his Marines into combat for corporate gain. One of the most potent forces of his time, heis speech eventually influneced Wilson to make a stand for isolationalism at the beginning of WWI, and helped form Wilsons opinion of the United States not becoming an Imperial power. There was no question that Butler was one of the great American militay heroes, as well as one of it's greatest statesmen. He was remakably intelligent, adn was the last high ranking officer to actually lead his troops from the front of the line, going into battle like an old Civil War general. His words ring as true today as they did back then.

George Marshall, another genius and far thinker, did what he could to avoid future wars. He believed, as did Butler, that sovereign nations had the right to take the course the people wanted. His Plan to rebuild Europe and Japan after the war stands as one of the greatest achievements of a ll time. Both of those nations have become our allies, and have never forgotten the debt they owe us. If it were not for MArshall, the world would hve plummetted into much worse circumstances than it has.

I urge people to read this to Google "Smedley Butler", and learn of one of the finest minds, not afraid to speak that mind, this country has ever known.

[Lithos]

9. And to add two more examples

It was Clinton who destroyed Saddam's WMD through bombing. It was the Pukes under Reagan who gave Saddam not only equipment but the encouragement to develop them in the first place. Bush I, left them behind.

It will be Kerry who will fix Shrubs mess in Iraq.

L-

[jumpstart33]

11. Best example yet!!

You go DUers!!

[jumpstart33]

10. Wow! What a history lesson. I knew someone would do it!

thanks.