Christianity vs Catholocism...is there a difference...?

[imax2268]

Can someone explain to me if there is a difference between the two...are they considered the same...or are they based on seperate beleifs...?

[Maddy McCall]

1. Not all Christians are Catholics, but all Catholics are Christians...

Does that make sense?

[krkaufman]

4. Sub-category?

Christianity is the larger classification, with separate dogma-specific religious flavors from which one can choose: Catholicism, Lutheran, Protestant, Baptist, etc. (though Merriam-Webster's definition would seem to be more exclusive)

Much like Islam is the larger classification, under which there are who-knows-how-many different dogma-specific variants.

I believe "Judaism" is the broad umbrella for the Jewish faiths.

[chemenger]

54. Just try telling that to some Catholics

My wife (who is Catholic, as am I) overheard this conversation one day.

1st Person: "Are you a Christian?"
2nd Person (with obvious horror in her voice): "OH NO! I'm Catholic."

FYI: There is a world of difference between the Catholic faith and Christianity, stemming from a ways back, when all little Catholic kids were taught that our religion was better than all the other religions and that only Catholics were going to heaven because we believed in the Blessed Mommy.

Fortunately however, my wife and I both are "LIBERAL" (read cafeteria) Catholics. She more than I. I'm Catholic in name only and I'm even distancing myself from that. Too much bullshit insofar as intertwining one's belief and faith in God/Jesus/Holy Spirit with belief in the Catholic dogma.

Interestingly enough, my wife and I did one of those internet quizzes to determine what religion most closely fits with our beliefs. Buddhism fits her most closely and Universal Unitarianism fits mine. In both cases Roman Catholism was just about on the bottom of the list.

[bluestateguy]

2. Put this way (if this thread does not get locked)

Protestants believe in the direct relationship with God. Catholics communicate through the church.

Catholicism also professes more reverence for the Virgin Mary.

[dryan]

15. What?????

Have studied Catholic theology on a graduate school level and never heard this? Please point it out to me.

[Terran]

20. What have you never "heard"?

That Catholics revere Mary? Or that they "communicate with God through the Church"?

It might be more accurate to say that Catholics mediate their 'relationship with God' through Priests of the Church, each of whom, in a sense, is the heir of Peter, Christ's first priest.

I should think the part about Mary is pretty obvious.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

44. LOL!!!!

You know, graduate school just ain't what it used to be.
Also, the Eucharist (bread, communion....) is pretty special too!

[Swamp Rat]

46. You are being too kind...

Did you catch post #3 and the ones that followed in the sub-thread? "Now, class! Don't fight about religion any more. Nobody ever wins."

I'm wondering when they'll bring back "witch" burning in this country... Thanks GW!!!Eleventh century here we come!

[Swamp Rat]

3. This thread belongs in "Civil Rights/Equality/Privacy"

To answer your question, "Christianity vs Catholocism...is there a difference...?", I'd call them "two branches of the same party."

[imax2268]

5. ok that's cool...

I was talking with someone today who said that Kerry is a "christian"...I said no...He's Catholic"...then I was asked..."Is there a difference"...
I was sure that there was...I always thought that the beliefs were different...
Guess I was wrong huh...?

[Swamp Rat]

6. No, you were not "wrong."

I don't think there is a right or wrong... we're talking about beliefs. The folks that were most concerned about this divisive issue killed each other throughout Europe hundreds of years ago. Nevertheless, I'm sure you can still find PLENTY of folks that will passionately tell you that there is a big difference.

[REP]

9. What You Said Was Insulting and Intolerant

Saying that Catholics are not Christians is a very insulting thing to say. I don't think you meant to be insulting, but it may have been misunderstood that way.

[alcuno]

34. No it's not. Catholics do not go around calling themselves Christians.

Most people who identify themselves as "Christian" are not Catholic. Unfortunately, the Jerry Falwells and Pat Robertsons of the world have turned the term "Christian" into meaning evangelical.

I'm a Catholic and have been told by "Christians" that I'm not going to heaven unless I'm born again. In other words, I have to be like them since they've made themselves into the authority on who does and does not go to heaven.

[jackieforthedems]

36. Born Again Is Similar To Catholic Confirmation

That's what my priest told me - the reason being is that when Catholics are baptised, it was their parents' choice, but when you make your Confirmation, it should be yours. I'm a born Catholic who did make my Confirmation by my own will, and the only real differences I see in the 2 (Catholic and Christian) is how Catholics feel about the Saints and the Virgin Mary, etc...

[alcuno]

38. Confirmation is not being baptized again. The Church even says

that not being confirmed is not an impedement to going to heaven. Maybe that's what your priest told you, but that's not what I learned in Catholic School. Evangelicals do not consider the sacrament of confirmation the same as being born again. Having read and heard what "Christians" think of Catholics makes my blood boil.

Have you ever read what the "Christians" think of the Holy Father's statement about Jews going to Heaven? Yikes!

[jackieforthedems]

40. I Said Similar, Not That It Was Exactly The Same

My priest said that it was something similar, but that our beliefs were different. I know what you mean. No, I haven't heard about The Pope's statement regarding the Jews going to Heaven. Can you please fill me in?! Thanks!

[alcuno]

42. Here's part of it - puts evangelicals into a tizzy.

"This does not mean that Jews in order to be saved have to become Christians; if they follow their own conscience and believe in God's promises as they understand them in their religious tradition they are in line with God's plan, which for us comes to its historical completion in Jesus Christ."

[jackieforthedems]

43. I See

What do Christians believe they have to do to be born again? Isn't it just being baptised again as adults?

[alcuno]

45. Here you go.

"From our physical birth by our human parents, we have a dying physical body; a corrupted psychological organ (the soul), consisting of the mind, emotion, and will; and a spirit that is dead and incapable of contacting God. By receiving Christ as our Savior, we are born of God. The Spirit of God comes into our human spirit to regenerate it, enliven it, with the life of God. This is to be born again. First we are born of our parents, then we are born of God. The first birth gives us the opportunity to have the second birth. The first birth produces us as a dirty vessel; the second birth cleanses us and fills us with the divine and eternal life of God. The first birth destines us to die; the second birth results in life eternal. In the first birth we are cursed, but in the second we are blessed, not with material riches but with God.

A born-again Christian, therefore, is a person who has made his beginning, receiving Christ as his new life in his spirit. Every genuine Christian is a born-again Christian, and once a person has been born again he can never lose this divine life within him. As he continues by living as a Christ-man, his thoughts, his speech, and his deeds become those which are out from Christ, in Christ, for Christ, and expressing Christ."

I guess you just ask for Jesus to come into your life and you are born again. I can see how it could be perceived as similar to confirmation, but I'm not sure what happens to you if you die before you are born again.

[jackieforthedems]

50. Yeah, I Can See Why The Priest Said It Was Similar Now, Too

I have a friend who is a psychic (now everyone is freaking out I suppose - lol!) Anyway, she believes that God allows souls to choose their assignments prior to coming here to Earth, born to our parents, etc... She believes that we choose our families, and basically everything about our life, but that we don't realize our goal in life until we're ready (the age can vary, I guess). It's definitely interesting to think of things that way - I wouldn't want to rule it out completely. It all has to do with learning lessons. Thanks for explaining the born-again details to me! I appreciate that!

[mitchtv]

47. Catholics are the original Christians

they are not about to "claim" christian.

[bloom]

52. OK - I've NEVER heard of a Catholic denying he/she is a Christian

You just never know what you're going to hear around here.

I would think that Kerry considers himself to be a Catholic which is one denomination of Christianity.

If Catholics consider themselves to be outside of the Christian realm - I don't know what religious group they think they are in. I guess they may think their religion is SOOOO different from other Christians - but I've been to several denominations, including Catholic, and while I can see that some might rather not be associated with others - I don't see how the relationship can be denyed.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

33. Oh, you were talking to a fundamentalist

Fundamentalists think that only people who have had at least an evangelical-style "born again" experience and participate in their Las Vegas stage show type "praise" services are Christians.

Here's a quick-and-easy history of Christianity:

Catholicism is the oldest form of Christianity in the Western European tradition and can be traced to the apostles who went to Western Europe. The Eastern Orthodox churches split off in the 12th century, over the question of the role of the pope, among other things, but they, too, are very old and can be traced to the apostles who stayed in the eastern Mediterranean.

The three main brances of Protestantism are Lutheran-derived, Calvinist-derived, and Anabaptist-derived. All these arose in the 15th and 16th centuries and were reactions to corruption in the Catholic church. The Lutheran-derived churches emphasize salvation by God's grace and "the priesthood of all believers." The purest form of Calvinism teaches that humans are predestined for either heaven or hell. The Anabaptists, unlike other Christians, believe that people should be baptized only when they're old enough to make a personal commitment.

I don't have time to list which modern denominations belong to which group, but those are the types of Protestants.

Fundamentalists arose in the late 19th century in reaction to modern science (especially historical geology, archaeology, and evolutionary biology) and modern theology (which proved that the Bible had not been dictated personally by God).

I personally believe that the fundamentalists are being paid under the table to promote Republicanism, but I can't prove it. One of their tactics is to make their people afraid of alternative sources of information, including other, more rational Christians, so they tell them that only THEY are true Christians.

They can get away with this because U.S. schools don't teach world history very well.

[Comicstripper]

49. Yeah, you were

christianty: any set of beliefs in which Jesus Christ is revered as the Son of God, God in the flesh, and/or the messiah.

catholicism: highly structurized, church/priest-focused (rather than individual-focused), type of christianity.

amish are christian, too.
the catholics worship jesus christ. they celebrate christmas.
they're christians.

and no, they're not the original christians. jews are. christianity is judaism 2.0. judaism with an expansion pack. judaism plus deleted scenes and director commentary.

so, catholics are christians.

[REP]

7. No

Catholicism is a Christian sect, albeit a big one. All Christian faiths believe roughly the same things (the divinity of Christ, etc) though they differ on details (Catholics believe in transubstantiation; Protestants do not, etc).

If you want to get really picky, the vast majority of Christian sects are Pauline Christians, including Catholics and Protestants.

[0rganism]

8. Catholocism is a peculiar branch -- and an old one -- of Christianity

First, it IS Christianity. You can't deny it. The Protestants are usually considered to be Christians who broke away from the Catholic church starting in the 15th Century, during the reformation -- i.e., Martin Luther's protest against the Church heierarchy.

Catholicism itself has numerous tenets and practices you won't find in a lot of Protestant churches. Get yourself a good Catechism sometime and skim through it. Interesting reading. Catholics believe the Church and especially the Pope to be an infallible representation of God on Earth. Not perfect in all that is said and done, but infallible insofar as it cannot (or will not) fail in its mission.

Aside from that, there are many practices which the various splinter churches (from early schisms and/or the Reformation) have taken or discarded piecemeal. Latin services, a Eucharistic ceremony, and water baptism are long-standing Catholic traditions. The Nicene Creed is sort of a basis for Catholic practice, and has been part of the Catholic rites since the 4th century:

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
The only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God,
begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father.
Through Him all things were made.

For us men and our salvation He came down from Heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
He was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man.
For our sake He was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
He suffered, died and was buried.
On the third day He rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures;
He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and His kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
Who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son He is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.
(Nicene Creed)

So you can see that various Christian sects may differ on many of the points (esp. the bit about "one holy catholic and apostolic church" in the last para) but will also share a fair bit in common.

[Terran]

21. Catholicism is not a "peculiar branch" of Christianity

Your historical perpsective is rather lacking, given that statement. Catholicism *was* the whole of Christianity for about 1500 years. Everything else is a "branch".

[0rganism]

29. *My* historical perspective is lacking?

You need a reset, dirk. By "peculiar", I meant that Catholicism is a fairly specific set of legacy rites, which many other sects don't observe or observe in part. The Church's establishment as an organ of the Roman Empire in the 4th century is also unique, certainly something that no other Christian sect could claim.

Catholicism had some very early branches, and survived schisms well before the 15th century. Roman Catholicism itself had roots in earlier rites of various practices such as the Coptic Orthodox, the emperor Constantine certainly didn't invent all of it. The protests of Luther and James were hardly the first. Many of the Middle Eastern Christian churches separated from the Papacy in the 5th century, cf. the Council of Ephesus and the Council of Chalcedon. Then there's the Eastern Orthodoxy that separated during the "Great Schism" of the 11th century. To say that Catholicism "was the whole" of Christianity for 1500 years is... well, simply incorrect. One could certainly contend that it was the dominant force in Western European Christianity for 1200 years, but never has it represented "the whole" of Christendom.

[Terran]

30. Apologies

I didn't understand your use of the word peculiar. Thanks for the explanation. I was also sloppy in that I was speaking of the *western* Church only, but I totally failed to make that clear. Viewed that way, the Roman Catholic Church is the Mother of all other western Christian sects, except possibly the Mormons. Not a "branch", but the trunk of a tree.

[JerseygirlCT]

28. Other churches continue to use the Nicene creed as well -m

and the line you mentioned about "one holy catholic and apostolic church" means one united church, maintaining apostolic succession from the original apostles...

catholic = united.

This is part of the Episcopal liturgy, and I believe several other mainline Protestant denominations as well.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

35. Yup, both the Episcopal and Lutheran Sunday liturgies

are adaptations of the Roman Catholic Mass, including the Kyrie, the Gloria, the Nicene Creed, the three-year lectionary, the Sanctus, the Agnus Dei, and the words of institution. The Eastern Orthodox also have a similar liturgy, although it varies from country to country.

The Calvinist and Anabaptist-derived denominations tend to have more free-form liturgies, including what some have irreverently called "the hymn sandwich":

Hymn
Bible reading
Hymn
Bible reading
Hymn
Bible reading
Sermon
Hymn
Prayers
Hymn

or some variation of the above.

[Bridget Burke]

10. The Orthodox churces are even older than (Roman) Catholicism.

Here's a one-page guide to the three major branches of Christianity: www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/people/features/world_religions/christianity_branches.shtml

And it's true that some of those who preach endlessly about how "Christian" they are do not regard Catholics as Christians. In fact, they also have doubts about the more established Protestant churches.

Interestingly, the symbol attached to your message is a modern adaptation of the (very Catholic) Sacred Heart.

[imax2268]

12. I don't practice religion...

I was curious...I was raised Lutheran, went to baptist schools and I always heard from them that Catholics are not Christians...so I thought I would ask...I don't practice any type of religion now...but this came up in a discussion about Kerry...

Thanks for the link...

Yea...your right about the sacred heart...I have that tattooed on my arm...!

[Kathy in Cambridge]

13. That sounds like something the Baptists would say

when my dad was stationed at an air base down South in the '50s, he was told many times that he wasn't a Christian. I guess the prejudice still exists. How sad.

[sandnsea]

23. Disagree

The Catholic and Orthodox Churches were one and the same until they split in 1054. I consider both of them equivalent in tracing tradition to the roots of Christianity. The differences are so minute that it's too difficult to put it in a post, at least for me.

[JerseygirlCT]

26. Well....

So say the orthodox churches. Actually what was the original church (immediately following Christ's human life) eventually split into Roman and Eastern churches (Catholic and Orthodox). Each claims to be the original Christian church.

Catholicism isn't so much a sect of Christianity as one of the oldest forms of Christianity.

Protestantism (what is often just called "Christian") is quite new in comparison. And what passes for modern, fundamentalist Protestantism is even newer. Protestantism began as a reform movement of the Catholic church (Martin Luther was a Catholic priest, for example). Since then, some beliefs have moved even farther away from the RCC. To the point that today, many Protestants will insist that Catholics are not really Christians...

[mitchtv]

48. as far as age is concerned, Where then do

Eastern Rite Catholics fit in,? the Coptics in Egypt, Chaldeans in Iraq, and several more I can't name?

[ReallyTired]

11. To quote someone from the 12th century, ...

"Kill them all. God will know his own."

[hexola]

14. Catholics kiss on the first date....

Christians don't...

[noonwitch]

16. An evangelical coworker managed to offend all the catholics at work

by saying that catholics aren't christians, unless they are born again. She got bitch-slapped by a born again catholic who told her she obviously knew nothing about catholicism and until she learned something, she should just keep her mouth shut. It was a fun moment to witness.

The same coworker told me recently that I wasn't a protestant because I don't believe in hell. I told her that being a prostestant did not depend on believing in hell. It depends on 1. believing that Jesus is the son of God (or at least "a son of God") and 2. rejecting the authority of the Roman Catholic church. She totally rejected my argument, so I printed out the dictionary definition of protestant and left it on her desk.

[yellowcanine]

22. Question is, do you really want to go to heaven if Pat Robertson and Jerry

Falwell are going to be there?

[DemBones DemBones]

32. Oh, they'll be in a separate section so that they

can enjoy the illusion that they're the only ones there. ;-)

[SheepyMcSheepster]

17. i beleive there are a few "Chick Tracks" about this topic

:D
Are Roman Catholics Christians?
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0071/0071_01.asp

The Death Cookie
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0074/0074_01.asp

Last Rites
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0082/0082_01.asp

Why is Mary Crying?
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0040/0040_01.asp


those should set the record straight ya heathens! :D

[smirkymonkey]

55. That is some seriously fucked up stuff!

Not that I am religious at all, but the anti-catholic bigotry is over the top.

[DemBones DemBones]

18. OK, here's the deal: Jews don't recognize Jesus as

the Messiah, Protestants don't recognize the pope as the head of the Church, and Baptists don't recognize each other at the liquor store.

:evilgrin:

Catholics, on the other hand, recognize Jesus as the Messiah, the pope as head of the Church, and each other at the liquor store.


And John Kerry is a Catholic as well as a Christian.

[JohnKleeb]

24. haha

Yeah that sums it up.

[sandnsea]

25. It does, doesn't it?

Gotta' tell my dad that one, he'll crack up.

[PATRICK]

19. What you are getting at

is poorly stated, maybe. I think presuming other sects are Christian while RC's are not is a cultural accident of living in the dominant Protestant culture of religious America, no matter how many splits there are in those groups.

The burning, healthy question for any Church or other religious group is whether they are faithful to the religion they espouse. Catholicism is THE primordial Christian organization in unbroken line and traditions all through the ages. A historical tour of fidelity, reform, encrustations, splits would take a very long time. The most "orthodox" Christian sects when combined(RC's, the Eastern Orthodox) themselves make up the largest world religion population on paper. Glacial moves at reconciling differences are sometimes imperceptible, often timid to the extreme, and removed from the fidelity issue at the core of individual and communal spirituality and practice.

Is any church Christian? Thanks to the Founder it always is a challenging question.

This is interesting because growing up Catholic the notion that we were Christians "too" or "first" was awkward terminology, since, ironically, Christian applied a more universal(which is what "catholic" means) inclusive definition where even important distinctions might be lost(a further irony when it comes to actual fidelity).

So when Fundamentalists on any representative of "a" Christian sect become Christianity itself, just people indeed might be scandalized by the whole thing. Is Zell Miller a Democrat? What does being a Democrat mean?

[LWolf]

27. Christianity = Jesus as The Christ.

There are many versions, brands, so to speak of Christianity, of which Catholicism is one. There are also different "brands" of Catholicism. You might look at it like this, except that it's not this simple:



CHRISTIANITY

/ \

Catholicism Protestantism

| |
_________________________________ ________________________________

| | | | | |
Roman Greek etc. Baptist Methodist etc.

[GreenPartyVoter]

31. My FIL, who is conservative protestant Pastor, does not believe Catholics

(and many other denoms which are not near mirror images of his own, are "truly Christian") :eyes:

Would Jesus love a liberal? You bet!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/liberalchristians.htm

[stavka]

37. Christians allow children fatally allergic to wheat to take communion

...in part because many Christians don't believe they are actually eating Christ when they confirm their faith.

[flaminbats]

39. a few Christians prey for more hope...

Orthodox Christians prey for qualified Archbishops and plenty of hard Wine. Catholics prey they can still stretch after every Sunday. Mormons just prey for more wives and finally having that giant orgy in the Temple. And Baptists prey only that everyone else cooks in hell :evilgrin:

[Nikia]

41. I'll keep it simple so no one will get offended

I can't say what I want to say without sounding really offensive so I won't. There is a wealth of information about different sects of Christianity. I'll just say that Protestant=Christian, Catholic=Christian, Orthodox=Christian, and all other sects who believe that they are Christian are Christian.

[mmonk]

51. The original

organized western church after the fall of Jerusalem (Catholic). If there were no Catholic church, there would be no Protestant Churches since that is what they broke away from (Protestant meaning those that protest). There was one Church until around 1100 when the East (Orthodox) and West (Catholic) split. Later, people left the Catholic Church in the West (later middle ages) and formed their own Churches (Protestants).

[sampsonblk]

53. Here's a good read (link provided)

http://www.kensmen.com/catholic/differences.html