How much difference would it make to you who initiated a draft in 2005?

[wickerwoman]

I'm interested in a more specific breakdown of people's responses.

I'm asking because my brother is draft age and while I've always been confident that he is far from stupid enough to submit to conscription while GWB is commander in chief, I suspect that if he were asked to serve under Kerry that he would do it.

So, let's say there hasn't been another terrorist attack between now and 2005 but troops are spread too thin in Afghanistan and Iraq and things are looking bleak with North Korea and China. The newly elected President (Bush or Kerry) signs in universal conscription of men and women 18-45 with no exemptions except serious medical conditions.

You get a letter informing you to report for duty. How would you respond?

[DemBones DemBones]

1. I would think that Kerry wouldn't approve an unfair plan,

i.e., one that worked like the old one in which rich kids worked the loopholes more effectively because they had money and connections.

A draft shouldn't exempt anyone for any reason except physical inability to serve. Conscientious objectors should serve in a nonmilitary role.

[wickerwoman]

2. My question assumes a universal draft with no exemptions.

I still think a draft is tantamount to slave labor and is inconsistant with a democracy no matter what the rules or who initiates it. And I think many conscientious objects believe that it doesn't matter if you're polishing the bombs or pushing the trigger, you're still enabling someone else to go out there and kill people.

[DemBones DemBones]

4. COs often served as medics with the military, or did

alternative service in the States, like being hospital orderlies. As you probably know!

I don't think conscription to meet national needs is slave labor but I think the system must be fair. What we have now, with the "voluntary" military is economic conscription and that's not fair. I don't want anyone to go to war, though. I support military defense, not offense.

[mouthy1]

5. Draft

You don't need to worry about a draft. My cousin is trying to get into the military, and my other cousin is a marine lieutenant his sisters in the Air Force and a fourth one is getting ready to leave for Iraq, according to them the military has more than enough people trying to sign up, just not enough that meet qualifications. The military will loosen requirements before a draft is instituted.

The problem with our party is that while we're quick to point out GOP lies, we have trouble finding our own.

But hey, thats hard. And at least we have people out there who actually care about this and other issues over money

[wickerwoman]

8. Well, with those three it should be no problem taking on North Korea,

while maintaining stable situations in Iraq and Afghanistan. Oops, I mean creating stable situations in Iraq and Afghanistan.

And the surplus of troops must be why we're calling up inactive reservists who have been out for 10 years.

Honestly, it's great that your family is so committed to this country, but you're the one deluding yourself if you think 4 more years of Bush doesn't mean an inevitable draft. Even with Kerry, I'd say there's a good chance.

[mouthy1]

11. well well well

I never supported the war and I too want Bush out. I don't appreciate the comments about my family, none of them supported it either. I simply pointed out that it is unlikely that a draft will be issued.

[wickerwoman]

12. Actually, I was complimenting your family.

I think your cousins are showing a lot of character signing up to defend their country. It doesn't matter if they believe in the war or not.

My point is that anecdotal evidence about three new recruits does not mean jack in the big picture.

Bush is calling up *inactive* reserves- people who served all of their time years ago and thought they were through. And they are pissed off about it. Would he be doing that if he had enough new recruits? Would we still have stop-loss orders keeping National Guardsmen in Iraq for years at a time?

And he's still sabre-rattling with Iran, Syria and North Korea. If he is re-elected, we will be at war with Iran in a year. How does shortage of troops now + a new even bigger war = no draft in your logic?

[mouthy1]

13. thanks

2 out of the three cousins already in the military were done years ago. Let me rephrase my original comment. The problem isn't that people aren't trying to enlist, it's that they're turning them away. Maybe that'll clear it up. I know 3 new recruits don't mean squat, don't mistake me for stupid.

[Dems Will Win]

15. KERRY'S NO-DRAFT PLAN MEANS NO DRAFT, UNLESS CHINA INVADES US

The major media cover hardly anything that John Kerry says, especially if it is about the draft. So you would never know it, but John Kerry has a No-Draft Plan, a plan to strengthen the military in key areas yet draw down U.S. troop levels in Iraq by internationalizing the situation and then getting out as soon as possible.

Here are the five main points of Kerry’s No-Draft Plan:

1. Move some paper-pushers to combat (lots of potential there)

2. Increase enlistment with real scholarships, benefits and pay raises

3. Let troops know Special Ops will hunt al-Queda, no more invasions needed, so re-up rate goes up. "Primarily a law enforcement effort, not a full military effort", said John Kerry on Meet The Press.

4. Start a "Civilian Stability Corps" that would help in reconstructing Afghanistan and Iraq and relieve military pressure. It would be kind of like the Peace Corps—but on steroids.

5. GET FOREIGN TROOPS TO COME INTO INSTEAD OF LEAVE IRAQ.

Kerry gave some details about the proposed Civilian Stability Corps, made up of volunteers:

"...I propose that we enlist thousands of them in a Civilian Stability Corps, a reserve organization of volunteers ready to help win the peace in troubled places. Like military reservists, they will have peacetime jobs; but in times of national need, they will be called into service to restore roads, renovate schools, open hospitals, repair power systems, draft a constitution, or build a police force. A Civilian Stability Corps can bring the best of America to the worst of the world—and reduce pressure on the military."
- Source: Kerry, John. "Protecting Our Military Families in Times of War: A Military Family Bill of Rights." March 17, 2004. http://johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2004_0317.html >

In April, on a conference call with 130 College Newspaper Editors, Kerry said “No Draft”, that he would have a sensible foreign policy that would not require reinstatement. And in June, Kerry told a Wisconsin high school that if elected, a draft would be "absolutely unnecessary".

Kerry’s plan calls for increasing active-duty troop levels by 40,000 people. He also doubles the number of Special Ops troops. Half the 40,000 being added are civil engineering/reconstruction specialists and half are combat, costing an extra $7 billion, but it relieves the pressure on the Guard and Reserves for overseas deployments and essentially saves the Volunteer Army. $7 billion is well worth not having to bring back the draft!

Kerry charges that Bush is ruining the Volunteer approach with long Guard and Reserve deployments and numerous stop-loss orders, which Kerry says is a “Back-door Draft”. Since Kerry will increase pay, benefits, scholarships and reduce long deployments of regular troops and the reserves, if he is elected the re-enlistment rates and recruitment rates will return to normal. Recently, troops returning from Iraq are reportedly leaving the Service in huge numbers, although denied by DoD (see David Hackworth, Voting With their Feet http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38644).

With this No-Draft Plan, Kerry will not have to resort to conscription, even after Bush has made such a mess of it in Iraq. Kerry has also pledged that he will push renewable energy development and true energy independence, “so that we never again have soldiers dying for oil”.

Kerry has criticized the inequality of the draft, that the poor and minorities are inducted in higher numbers than their fair share and that the draft is a source of conflict. John Kerry will not reinstate the draft—outside of the invasion of the United States by China or something like that.

The choice is thus clear to all voters. Vote for Bush and you are also voting for the resumption of the draft—to man his hidden agenda of invading more countries and staying in Iraq forever.

Or vote for Kerry and you are voting PNAC out of the White House, and with it Bush’s hidden agenda to bring back the draft so U.S. companies can dominate the world’s remaining oil supply.

Finally, a draft is morally reprehensible, an infringement of freedom against the principles of the Constitution. We know that Bush cares nothing about morality when it comes to Iraq and that Kerry has over the years always expressed real opposition to the draft for a number of moral and ethical reasons. Having lived through the Vietnam era, Kerry knows well the long history of conflict and opposition that the draft has wrought.

John Kerry will not reinstate the draft, but Bush is secretly gearing up the whole system right now for the summer of next year.

Moral opposition to conscription goes all the way back to the year 1814. In a response to a proposed draft to fight the British, Daniel Webster perhaps said it best:

“Is this, sir, consistent with the character of a free government? Is this civil liberty? Is this the real character of our Constitution? No, sir, indeed it is not.

"The Constitution is libeled, foully libeled. The people of this country have not established for themselves such a fabric of despotism. They have not purchased at a vast expense of their own treasure and their own blood a Magna Carta to be slaves.

"Where is it written in the Constitution, in what article or section is it contained, that you may take children from their parents, and parents from their children, and compel them to fight the battles of any war, in which the folly or the wickedness of government may engage it?"

BUSH ’04 = DRAFT ‘05

KERRY '04 = PNAC OUT THE DOOR!

[wickerwoman]

22. Thanks for posting this.

It's very reassuring.

It does seem to rely pretty heavily on #5 though: "Get foreign troops to come into instead of leave Iraq." Does he have a specific plan for doing this?

For the purposes on my poll, let's say those other countries tell the U.S. to get stuffed and we don't have money to bribe them. And China/Taiwan looks like it's coming to a head.

[WMliberal]

9. welcome to DU!

:hi: :hi: :hi:

[robcon]

3. There's no room for me on the poll

I would serve no matter who was president.

[wickerwoman]

6. I'm assuming that's no.1.

I can't imagine anyone who would serve under Bush but not under Kerry.

on edit: not anyone that would post on DU, that is. :-)

[robcon]

19. To me it doesn't matter at all who is president during a draft.

That's not the same as saying I would go if Bush were president.

[bryant69]

7. I think that's the first one

Iwould serve even if it was Bush.

That's kind of where I shake out too; but I can understand why others might not feel that way

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[WMliberal]

10. i won't die for a mistake

sorry folks. I respect the rule of law, but I'm not an American by choice. I was just born here. If I had more than a McJob and could afford to emigrate elsewhere, I would.

[RivetJoint]

14. Get a good education

Make yourself marketable and emigrate to Europe. Look into Mexico, they might take you .

[sweetheart]

21. yes

Getting marketable now, like French, Healthcare qualification,
Engineering qualification, Teaching Qualificaiotn. Education Education when the stuff gets rough, and then abort is an option
if in danger, as some professions like nursing/medical are in
demand in Europe especially where the population is aging and
wealthdemand is there for quality healthcare.

[LWolf]

16. Hopefully they won't draft me;

I'm a 44 year-old grandmother. My sons, 24 and 26, may be another story. As far as that goes, I would support them in whatever choice they made. If they served, they'd have my support. If they chose to become a fugitive, I'd help hide them. If they chose to emigrate, I'd go with them. I'd support their choice.

Because it should be their choice.

I would not, however, support the president who took that free choice away from them. I would not support the president who enacted or used a draft. I don't give a flying fuck who that president is, or what party he supposedly serves. The president who presumes to send my sons in harms way without their choice had better be watching his back. I'd be marching and organizing every single day until he was deposed. I'd be attacking and undermining his administration and presidency at every turn.

You presume to interfere with my boys, and you've brought the battle up close and personal. I don't fear, I'm not easily threatened, and I'm the most persistant predator you've ever encountered. You're fair game at that point.

[Dems Will Win]

17. Actually, if you are a nurse, doctor or one of 61 medical specialties,

YOU ARE ELIGIBLE FOR THE MEDICAL DRAFT!

(Coming next year to a town near you)

They really need nurses and several of those specialties, BTW.

Ages 20 to 44, men and women, NO medical deferments. If Bush asks for the draft tomorrow, and the GOP gives it to him, and you were one of the above, you would have to register at your local Post Office within 30 days of reauthorization with the Selective Service.

THe only deferment is "Essential Community Service", meaning your job cannot be replaced easily in the community you might serve.

BUSH '04 = DRAFT '05

[LWolf]

20. I think I'm safe.

I'm an elementary school teacher, so my job is "Essential Community Service."

I would like to know more; so far, all I've heard or read are people talking about it, but no actual documentation of specific plans. I've been partially disconnected for the summer, while on vacation.

Can you direct me to a source where I can read more of these specifics?

Does it apply to all young men and women, or just men? Are their any deferrments? Any agreements with neighboring countries about extradition of defectors?

[Dems Will Win]

18. OH FORGOT TO MENTION

There is a secret proposal to raise the combat draft age to 34.

It turns out that the SSS has presented a secret 6-page proposal to the Pentagon and given to the Congress that calls for raising the age to 34. The secret document was obtained only through the FOI Act by a reporter from the Seattle Post-Intelligencer.

-snip-

WASHINGTON -- The chief of the Selective Service System has proposed registering women for the military draft and requiring that young Americans regularly inform the government about whether they have training in niche specialties needed in the armed services.

The proposal, which the agency's acting Director Lewis Brodsky presented to senior Pentagon officials just before the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, also seeks to extend the age of draft registration to 34 years old, up from 25.

The Selective Service System plan, obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, highlights the extent to which agency officials have planned for an expanded military draft in case the administration and Congress would authorize one in the future.

"In line with today's needs, the Selective Service System's structure, programs and activities should be re-engineered toward maintaining a national inventory of American men and, for the first time, women, ages 18 through 34, with an added focus on identifying individuals with critical skills," the agency said in a Feb. 11, 2003, proposal presented to senior Pentagon officials.

-snip-

http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/9/4334

Go, granny, go! = Work hard for Kerry, he has a NO-DRAFT PLAN!