Who was the less effective president, Bush SR or Bush JR ?

[kentuck]

I actually thought Bush Sr should have gotten more of the credit for the Berlin Wall and Soviet Empire crumbling, rather than Reagan. Because it was on his watch - not Reagan's. In truth, neither deserves any huge amount of credit. However, when Bush SR attacked Iraq, Soviet weapons were the weapons that were defeated by the US and allies, to a large extent. The Soviet Union collapsed soon thereafter. Also, Bush SR had enough sense to see that the deficits were smothering our economy and had the courage to do something about it, even though most now say it lost him the election.

Bush JR, on the other hand, has done everything differently than his Poppy. He has rushed headlong into an unnecessary war without adequate troops or adequate planning and under false pretenses. By all rights, he should have been impeached. This was after he went on vacation and forgot to read the intelligence warnings about al Qaeda and permitted our country to be attacked. Although he is praised by the right-wing evangelicals, it is not because of his policies, it is because of his perceived faith. Even there, he cusses those mother fuckers when they don't treat him right.

So, I don't think there is any comparison. I think Bush SR is much less offensive than the Shrub Jr.

[Danger Duck]

1. Effective or offensive?

* is by far the more effective President in recent history. He has effectively ruined our standing in the world, our economy, and our military. Pretty damn effective and offensive.

[Lizzie Borden]

6. Depends...

on how you define effective. If the term is defined as getting his agenda across, then it's W. If it's who did the least harm to the country and world, the it's Poppy.

[gandalf]

13. That's what I would have asked

I think effective is defined as to which degree a certain goal is reached, so the answer depends on which goal one takes into account.

Bush was very effective in selling a war, in making the rich richer, and so on...

[Ghetto_Boy]

2. poppy

[UrbScotty]

3. Four words come to mind

Americans with Disbilities Act.

I doubt Dubya would sign that.

Plus, Poppy fought a war that resulted in the deaths of 140 Americans. Dubya's war has resulted in nearly seven times that number.

[coloradodem2005]

4. If effective means trying to do the right thing, then Bush Sr.

If effective means affecting a change that is either good or bad, Bush Jr.

[DCdem87]

5. I disagree...

while shrub jr.'s offensive policy is more apparent to us now, his father was still very much a bad president. Personally i don't like anyone from that family in politics because they all care nothing about the American people (at least not the ones who aren't involved in oil or money by the millions of barrels or millions of dollars respectively). They are all dangerous to the welfare of this country. Its just the blistering sore of the bushies and their policy has finally taken a head in chimpy.

[goclark]

7. Poppy in the Middle of Everything

People think that Poppy is so innocent.
Not me.


When he was President hed presented himself as intelligent and middle of the road.

There is no one knows the ins and outs of this government like Poppy.
He us calling all the shots,IMO, for Rove etc.

Remember that Condi was POPPY's good friend. Therefore, she follows Poppy's orders when feeding garbage into the Chimp.

Colin was hand picked by Poppy and so was Clarence Thomas.

[PoiBoy]

8. This post says it all, IMO...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1696082&mesg_id=1696082&page=


<snip>
Speaking of conspiracies ... ONE name at the heart of all these
Nor, finally, is it in any way a "theory" that the one, single name that can be directly linked to the Third Reich, the US military industrial complex, Skull and Bones, Eastern Establishment good ol' boys, the Illuminati, Big Texas Oil, the Bay of Pigs, the Miami Cubans, the Mafia, the FBI, the JFK assassination, the New World Order, Watergate, the Republican National Committee, Eastern European fascists, the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission, the United Nations, CIA headquarters, the October Surprise, the Iran/Contra scandal, Inslaw, the Christic Institute, Manuel Noriega, drug-running "freedom fighters" and death squads, Iraqgate, Saddam Hussein, weapons of mass destruction, the blood of innocents, the savings and loan crash, the Bank of Credit and Commerce International, the "Octopus," the "Enterprise," the Afghan mujaheddin, the War on Drugs, Mena (Arkansas), Whitewater, Sun Myung Moon, the Carlyle Group, Osama bin Laden and the Saudi royal family, David Rockefeller, Henry Kissinger, and the presidency and vice-presidency of the United States, is: George Herbert Walker Bush.
<end>

W is just a front... the faces behind the front all belong to Poppy (Cheney, Powell, Rumsfeld, et al...)

:hi:

[goclark]

10. Yes,yes,yes!!! Poppy is right in the middle of everything!!!

I totally agree with you!

I even read a thread here that suggested that Poppy could have been Deep Throat.

It really caused me to think about that possibility and since the first time it was mentioned, I have seen nothing that changes my mind.

That is what is so dangerous about this administration. If Kerry beats Bush,Poppy will still have his fingers in the pie. He has placed a lot of people that will owe him big time - Porter Goss for example.

[KT2000]

9. Sr. was the stealth prez

It was his one world order that spawned the trade treaties, starting with GATT
He injected the US into MidEast turmoil with US troops, setting the bar so all future incursions could be expected.

As far as the crumbling of the Soviet Empire, I strongly believe that the Cold War bankrupted them.

The Cold War has also bankrupted us - it is just that our solution is to preserve the wealthy class and throw the rest overboard.

The Cold War was a costly war in terms of money spent, resources utilized, the spreading of cancer from nuclear testing and the growth of the defense contractors and their powers.

[goclark]

11. More proof that Poppy is ALWAYS in the middle

[Toucano]

12. No doubt about it...W is extremely effective.

Much more effective than his father. That's the problem.

W got a lot of mileage out of 9/11. I believe that without it, his agenda would have met resistance in the congress.

[leftofthedial]

14. George the First was an ineffectual wimp

His only "accomplishment" was staying the hell out of the way while his surrogates waged a dubious "war."

George the Lesser, however, has killed thousands and quite effectively destroyed the US economy, our reputation in the world, our relationships with our allies, the air, the water, the national parks, healthcare (which was already hurting pre-bushgang), the Constitution/Bill of Rights, and several acres of prime Manhattan real estate.

"Effective" is a neutral term.

[goclark]

15. Poppy was busy doing lots of other things

that have paved the way for this administration to spin its web around us.

He may have looked like he was sitting back but what a busy bee he really has been for all these years.

What in the hell was he meeting with Cheney for the evening before 911? If you go back and really review all the hints that MM gave us in F 911, he all but said Poppy has more power than we know.

IMO MM just didn't have the time to focus on Poppy more,but Poppy was doing his dirty work with oil and everything else.

[spanone]

16. Damn, it's a toss-up

[goclark]

17. Not to me

GW is not really President so how could he be effective?

If we are talking about his administration,that is different.
Cheney and Poppy and Rove are really doing the work.

GW is far too stupid to hold down a job. He is a totsl idiot.

[underpants]

18. Sr. less effective-Jr. is just destructive

Sr. has a bit of an excuse-he couldn't try to reverse the unsound policies of Reagan. They were still basking in the glow of Ronnie's tenure.