Bush is our Hitler; Iraq is our Poland

[autorank]

What do you think?

[troublemaker]

1. Iraq is our Czechoslovakia. Iran is our Poland.

[Hippo_Tron]

15. Well, hopefully it won't get to that stage (n/t)

[arwalden]

20. Hey! I Was Going To Say That!

[wickerwoman]

28. This is a better analogy.

The world pretty much sat back and let Hitler take the Sudenten. WWII didn't start until he invaded Poland.

The problem is, who will be "Britain"? Who will be the first to draw a line in the sand for the U.S.?

But hopefully, Bush will be history in November and we'll never have to find out.

[troublemaker]

35. I think Russia would draw the line at Iran

[alittlelark]

39. So do I, and I think China will join them

I play out these scenarios as I'm trying to sleep at night.

These Neo-con freaks will not suceed in taking my children's futures away from them.

[leftchick]

50. Agreed.. Russia and China....

Who the hell do the neocons think they are fooling besides the US?

[alittlelark]

51. my answer would be - NO One- but that's OK

because they have all the bombs.

[boobooday]

2. I heard a very elderly Holocaust survivor

Who said that Bush looked like Hitler to her.

Would you ever have thought you would hear a Holocaust survivor say that about an American president? Okay, so he's not really a president, but he's playing one on TV.

And there is no doubt we have been propagandized to an unprecedented degree. And no doubt that Bush attacked another country unprovoked, with a bigger scheme in mind for global domination.

So, there are too many similarities to dismiss the comparison out of hand.

[LisaL]

3. At least Hitler

Didn't have nukes.

[mike_c]

4. the Iraq/Poland parallels are strongest, IMO....

Trumped up reasons for invading, constant nationalist propaganda, a brutal occupation, utter disregard for the civilian population, and so on.

Bush is a strutting idiot-- he isn't smart enough to be compared to Hitler, and while he's certainly not a moral giant, his evil is of a lesser calibre, IMO. He's just a greedy little shit who's never done anything well in his entire life.

[autorank]

22. Good points

Particularly about Bush lacking Hitler's evil genius. I was thinking of 'our Hitler', i.e., our worst ever that nearly everyone in the country will be ashamed of and who fits our laid back/restrained evil one. Didn't mean to make a hard analogy.

[liberalnurse]

5. It is *bush and the hive-collective

that equate Hitler. *bush is the frontman.....I don't know who is really the kingpin.......That we may never know.

[mourningdove92]

6. Stop children, whats that sound?

hehehe, its the sound of freepers heads exploding. Wonder how long it will take for one of the trolls to post this in freeperville?

[alittlelark]

42. I hope they do

logic and fact will explode cognitive dissonance every time..........but who picks up the pieces? Limbaugh or Air America???


Every freeper head exploding is a chance for facts and reality to permeate the fissures.

[amber dog democrat]

7. I'll go there.

only unlike Hitler, who volunteered for service as an Austrian citizen, and served on the front lines with valor as a dispatch runner , gassed and decorated with the Iron Cross 2nd Class - there is NOTHING in the way of intellect, resolve, or courage that Hitler had in Geroge Chimp, the II.

I am not apologizing for or supporting Hitler, or the horrendous tradgedy that came out of the 1930s Fascist dictatorships but President Chimp does not come close to the charisma and aptitude of the dictatiors of the 20th C.
Even Stalin began his career as a bank robber after 20 years in seminary school.

Bush is a fascist punk ass chump wannabe. He can't be as ruthless either, too many restraints on his ambitions, like the frayed and unraveling Constitution. But I have no doubt he and his cronies want to impose a theocratic form of fascism here at home if they could.

As for Iraq = Poland.
Not so sure of that one either. We can't actually say we HAVE Iraq even now and there is no indication that the military does NOT have its hands tied.
I think we have already militarily lost this one.
Its still alot more like Vietnam.

[Malva Zebrina]

13. we may not have Iraq in the conventional sense of the word

but we have established some fourteen military bases there, and of course, Bush/Cheney has extended the spoils of war to the warprofiteering Halliburton and it's subsidiaries and a host of other corportions that have established a formidable presence in Iraq. That cannot be stopped and Bremer saw to it that these are protected under the new Iraqi/US constitution for the interim government and in that sense, Bush can say--Mission Accomplished.

If he wins in November that will only be icing on the cake. He will then go on to invade other small countries in the region and grab their stuff too. He has murdered tens of thousands of Iraqi people in order to get his big business buddies in there. He has been successful in that regard. This was the real mission--all the others , the lies about the WMD etc. was a coverup. He and his buddies wanted Iraq for their own greed and profit.

They are there and they are rooted firmly in the sand--they will become powerful over the Iraqi people in the same way they are powerful over Americans. Soon the culture of Iraq will be assaulted by Western frivolity, consumerism , greed and striving. They will see to it.

[amber dog democrat]

17. Empires come and go.

Ours will too. Even if we model ourselves after the Roman Empire with holdings everywhere we touched - the dry rot from within, enemies without relentlessly pressing on the frontiers will lead to a collapse.

But i don't think we are any more firmly rooted in the sand than we were in the rice paddies. Granted we are not on the wrong side of some's civil war YET but in time I think this will happen the same way it did to the French and English colonies in the Middle East.

I honestly believe we have lost this war already. No one is willing to admit it yet.

[Strelnikov_]

21. "America is the strongest and most prosperous nation on earth,"

Nately informed him with lofty fervor and dignity. "And the American fighting man is second to none."

"Exactly," agreed the man pleasantly, with a hint of taunting amusement. "Italy, on the other hand, is one of the least prosperous nations on earth. And the Italian fighting man is probably second to all. And that’s exactly why my country is doing so well in this war while your nation is doing so poorly."

"The Germans are being driven out, and we are still here. In a few years you will be gone, too, and we will still be here. You see, Italy is really a very poor and weak country, and that’s what makes us so strong. Italian soldiers are not dying any more. But American and German solders are. I call that doing extremely well. Yes, I am quite certain that Italy will survive this war and still be in existence long after your own country has been destroyed."

"America is not going to be destroyed!" Nately shouted.

Never?" prodded the old man softly.

"Well. . " Nately faltered.

The old man laughed indulgently, "Rome was destroyed, Greece was destroyed, Persia was destroyed, Spain was destroyed. All great countries are destroyed. Why not yours? How much longer do you think your own country will last? Forever?"

From: "Catch-22" by Joseph Heller

[autorank]

25. I think our empire will go quickly!

The Swedes terrorized Europe for a few centuries and then got fed up with the carnage. They just stopped. Maybe this will be our lesson and we can go back to being like the Republic of Venice...trade is our mission and peace enables trade.

[thebigidea]

8. considering that the RW compares Moore to Goebbels...

... and Bush/Cheney 2004 ads intersperse Democrats with Hitler, I'd say the Nazi comparisons are no longer out of bounds.

[IconoclastIlene]

9. Bush is the Frontman; no substance, no Mein Kampf.

And it is true; we may never truly know who the band and management is for this front man. Quite scary, actually.

With Hitler, one knew exactly what one was dealing with...with Bush everything is so occult, hidden and in an undisclosed location, along with the front man.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

10. And, Najaf is becoming our Warsaw.

[sattahipdeep]

11. "Bush is our Nixon;New York is our Kent State"

What do you think?

[amber dog democrat]

18. No - Nixon was smarter - more competent

Can't imagine national guardsmen shooting at protesters - even it it will be done off camera its too big a situation to manage if something like that happend.

[autorank]

23. As an ex Manhattanite (West Side!)

That really disturbs me. I can only hope that (a) Bloomberg doesn't want to get impeached or recalled and (b) the police are close enough to the people to avoid shootings in the street. God I hope this is wrong but it's a powerful concept.

[stellanoir]

12. but. . .but. . .

I thought we were turning Iraq into Switzerland. . .?

[kerry-is-my-prez]

14. The Arabs are the ones being "demonized" now.....

Most Americans would applaud if we dropped a bomb and just blew up most of the Middle East because "They're just Arabs - and they're all Muslim terrorists anyways."

Most people see no problem with us torturing innocent people (at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo) or with killing thousands of innocent Iraqis for no reason.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

16. We are also very similar to the U.S.S.R. with their empire-building.

Suppressing dissent, taking over countries, censorship. Except we don't give a shit about the poor or whether anybody has a job or access to heaath care.

[FlashHarry]

19. I think this plays right into RNC hands.

Bush is no Hitler. He isn't even close--yet.

Oh, he's a really bad guy, alright--a dangerous man who could, if left unchecked, become Hitler-like. But, so far, he's still just an arrogant, corrupt, dangerous President. And to make such flippant parallels dishonors the memory of the millions who endured the Holocaust while playing into the RNC's hands by providing fodder for those who paint the Left as hysterical and hyperbolic .

[stavka]

31. Thank You!

See my response....

[number6]

24. Bush is our cheap imitation Hitler; Iraq is our mini Stalingrad

don't even get me started ...:mad:

[Buck Rabbit]

29. No, I think our Stalingrad will be the Battle of Istanbul under Jeb.

Frankly, the tactics of the Iraqis are more like the Poles. They show their positions and take huge losses in futile gestures of noise making.

The Iranians were even worse at this during their war with Iraq. Where they seemed to use the Charge of the Light Brigade as the model for their battle strategies. I think the Iranian casulties in the upcoming Operation Spread Democracy will be staggering. Unlike the Iraqis who weren't that anxious to die for Saddam, I think the Iranians will throw themselves into the meat grinder by the hundreds of thousands.

My hope is that Kerry is elected and a true free election happens in Iraq. The winner would ask us to leave immediately ("Don't let the door knob hit ya where Allah split ya".)

If we stay the Iraqis resistance will eventually learn the tactics of the defenders of Stalingrad and casualties won't be 26 or 30 a week.

[autorank]

37. Hey, get started. This is a nice refinement!

[Endangered Specie]

26. Afghanistan was our Austria?

[Dangerman]

27. I agree whore-heartedly

[stavka]

30. I think that is a monumental historical WRONG

You couldn't DREAM of posting this message under the NSDAP and even as slimy as the occupation of Iraq is... clerics, the ruling class, the intellectuals etc aren't being shot by our MP's/Marines

And in the case of Poland - The United Kingdom and the British Commonwealth (Canada / Australia/ New Zealand/Britain/Scotland/Wales/Ulster/Etc)

and FRANCE declared war on Germany

and Italy remained neutral - unlike the bottom feeders that now make up the "coalition of the willing"

Comparing the economic and social evils of the republican party and George W. Bush to Nazi Germany is infantile.

They are in no way the same.

- and if they really were? Well, glad to see you are spending so much time watching media, typing e-mail and not fighting with your life to save people...why aren't you doing that? - Simple - because it is not nearly that bad.

Vote Kerry, and get out the Vote

[kodi]

32. bush = Alcibiades or Napoleon and Iraq = Sicily or Russia

the invasion of the Sicilian colonies by the Athenians under Alcibiades in 415 BCE is the most apropos historical comparison.

any one else ever read Aristophanes' "Lysistrata?" He wrote it while the war between Athens and Sicily was engaged and he would be comfortable here on DU, since his words in Lysistrata parallel much written here.

but the napoleon analogy is pretty close too.

supply lines stretching thousands of miles, guerrilla war from partisans, and warfare on holy ground.

at least napoleon had the balls to stay in Russia for more than a thanksgiving evening.

and Alcibiades? he was one of the most fascinating figures in history

[TankLV]

33. No, I fear, if we are not successful in installing Kerry in OUR White

House, Amerikkka will have its own unique horror that future generations will refer to - even superceding Hitler, Stalin, and all the rest - certainly their equals.

No - we will have our own, unique, Ameican, IMPROVED version.

We are still WAY TO EARLY to begin to make any valid comparisons.

Hopefully, we can "nip this in the bud" and he will be remembered as only the worst person to occupy the office of the President.

[Placebo]

34. BUSH is NOT HITLER.

He is an evil evil son of a bitch, but to compare him to someone else just blurs the lines and distracts from the true present danger of the bush presidency and all the unique evil that is inherent in it.

[K-W]

45. Care to back that up?

How does comparing him to another leader who manipulated a repbublic towards facism blur anything?

[Placebo]

52. Ugh I think any rational person will realise BUSH is NOT HITLER

One was a supreme ruler, the other is a president
One initiated plans that killed millions of people, the other one did not
One started a world war, the other one did not

I mean, need I go on here?

there are similarities, yes, but the similarities between bush and hitler are not inherent solely to the both of them only, leaders have been manipulating their citizens for thousands of years

[autorank]

53. "Our Hitler" not "Hitler"

Fun loving folks that we are, we wouldn't have a direct analog to Hitler. We'd have our Hitler. A guy who gets in there (through stealth, not a true election); immediately undermines the constitutional process, advances 'corporatism,' Hitlers gift to modern politics; invades countries on false premises; lures enough of the public into a trance through his mumblings; and wraps himself in the flag. He will never do what Hitler did because there is not the support and he won't last long for the same reason. He is viewed by many and will be viewed by most very soon as the most vile, disgraceful, individual every to have occupied the White House. The verdict of history will be swift and devastating. We simply have not had a president who was such a sociopath.

[K-W]

54. Comparisons are not equivelents.

I think you are confused about the point of this thread.

[bvar22]

36. There are parallels with the bush* administration,

and 1930's in Germany. Only a willfully blind person would deny the similarities.

[LisaL]

38. Iran could be next

They are starting to talk about Iran and how dangerous it is.
We should vote Bush out-or more WARS are coming.

[geek tragedy]

40. Bush is our Bush, Iraq is our Iraq.

They're bad enough on their own terms without overblown analogies.

[LisaL]

41. YES

But history keeps on repeating itself.
There is nothing wrong with an analogy.

[alittlelark]

43. Yes, it does.

yet some will never see the big picture.

[geek tragedy]

44. Analogies distract from Bush's evil

People start thinking about what Bush hasn't done (yet) instead of what Bush has done.

"Bush hasn't killed 6 million people."

"Bush hasn't canceled elections."

Bush is best described as a proto-fascist. I prefer to point out what he has done instead of what someone else has done.

[Swamp Rat]

47. I think analogies draw attention to Bush no matter what,

whether right or wrong. Bush may never reach the proportions of Hitler or maybe he's just getting started. My German friends and family are the ones constantly talking about how Bush&Co and American resemble Germany in the 1930s. When we protested in New Orleans against the war, it was the German students that built the effigy of Bush dressed up like Hitler. When right wingers angrily approached them, they shouted back in German, COMPLETELY confusing them.

Right or wrong, lots of people are making the analogy, and it doesn't bother me one bit. Give PNAC some more time they will lay waste to the Middle East, and perhaps elsewhere in the world.

[dorktv]

46. No Hitler was originally elected by a democratic process.

[Zorra]

48. Actually, Hitler was not elected by a democratic process.

Like Bu$h, he was appointed, only in a different way.

This is pretty simplified, but is basically what happened:

When Hitler was appointed chancellor on January 30th 1933, it was at the head of a coalition government. It was very clear in his mind that it would not remain this way for long. By the end of March 1933, he had acquired much greater powers than the former leading politicians of the Weimar Republic could ever have foreseen when they supported his appointment as chancellor. The death of President Hindenburg in August 1934, allowed him to combine both chancellor's and president's positions into one when Hitler became the Fuehrer and Reich Chancellor.

When Hitler was appointed in January 1933, Germany was a democracy. Germany had fair elections; nobody had their right to vote abused; there were numerous political parties you could vote for etc. To pass a law, the Reichstag had to agree to it after a bill went through the normal processes of discussion, arguments etc. Within the Reichstag of January 1933, over 50% of those who held seats were against the Nazi Party. Therefore it would have been very unlikely for Hitler to have got passed into law what he wanted. Many saw Hitler as a fall-guy politician who would have to shoulder to blame if things got worse under his leadership.
snip---
On July 14th 1933, a law was passed making it illegal to form a new political party. It also made the Nazi Party the only legal political party in Germany.

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/Nazi_Germany_dictatorship.htm

We must make sure that Bu$h is not re-selected.

[dorktv]

49. So Hitler was appointed by elected people?