Okay, why would a Dean/Clark ticket be bad?

[UrbScotty]

I saw a couple replies to a thread in LBN saying they are against a Dean/Clark ticket.

Why? I don't get it.

[Lefty48197]

1. Because I think Clark would be the best Presidential candidate

and I don't think Dean would provide the necessary electoral 'bump' that we need from the #2 candidate, like Richard Gephardt or Bill Richardson would do. I don't dislike Dean, he just wouldn't be my first coice, but I'll take him over Bush any day.

[ryharrin]

3. Don't you think that Dean incredible grassroots support

and fundraising would outweigh any benefits Gephardt would give? Dean has been second on the list for most unions, and would Gephardt necessarily give us his home state if he's only VP?

[roughsatori]

2. Sounds like a wining combination to me

Though I now favor Dennis Kucincih (even his supporters at DU seem the most civilized :)) I think that a Dean/Clark ticket would defeat Shrub.

I would like to hear why others disagree. I will say that most of what I know of Clark's positions seem to be from what his boosters say his opinion is. But when I look for those positions as stated or written by Clark himself I sometimes can't find where he said what people are claiming is his position

It is frequently written of Dean's supporters that they are "too" left wing. Yet I consider many of Clark's DU supporters (particularly those who are newer members) as too far "right" for my tastes.

[snyttri]

8. too far right?

I have not seen any Clark supporter advocate anything but liberal positions.

http://www.draftwesleyclark.com/on_the_issues.htm


From the Wesley Clark Weblog:
Michael Moore is intrigued by Clark. Here is what he said at a recent promotional event for his new book:


"As I suggested to people at the press conference earlier, Dennis Kucinich is good, Al Sharpton is good, but there's a ... I would love to see this. There's a four-star general ... he used to be the commander of NATO. His name is Wesley Clark. He was a Rhodes scholar. He's a Democrat. He would repeal the Bush tax cut for the rich. He submitted a brief in support of affirmative action to the Supreme Court. He's pro-choice. I could go down the list, and he's actually quite good on all the issues -- and he's a general. I would just love to see the debate between the general and the deserter.(Applause.) So if the Democrats really wanted to win, they should run somebody who could win -- and that would be an interesting."
"

Clark supporters have noted that he would get support from the center, but a lot of that has to do with being a general and his calm demeanor. Dean and Clark will share some centrist positions.

As foreign policy becomes the GOP weak point it is more important to have Clark, the Dem military expert at the top of the ticket.

[roughsatori]

22. "Too far" in either direction is relative

To me moderate Democrats are "too far right." To them I may be "too far left." A Hannity would consider moderate Democrats as "radical leftists." My Friends with an anarchist or libertarian bent consider me to be a "moderate Democrat." It is relative.

[poskonig]

4. That's our one-two punch.

It is almost like yin-yang. They both complement and strengthen each other where they are weak and mutually enhance their strengths.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

12. Yep.

North-South
Civilian-Military
Domestic-Foreign
.
.
.
etc....

Yin-Yang

[w4rma]

20. I totally agree: yin-yang, very complementary to one another (n/t)

[salin]

5. My guess

is that much of the resistance is to putting one's favorite candidate into the number two spot this early in the primary season.

[AntiCoup2K4]

6. This ticket can beat Junior

Don't want to get excited about it, as it's far from reality yet. But this combination has what it takes to beat all the classic objections...

Dean has the executive experience, Clark has the military credentials for those who believe such things are neccessary to lead this country in the so called "war on terror".

Need the South to win? Clark's from Arkansas. And the fact that Dean is NOT from the South makes it a balanced ticket in the way that Clinton/Gore was not. One region of the country shouldn't dominate the political process.

Hate Washington insiders?? here's two guys who, though politically experienced, are not part of the "Washington DC establishment" by any means.

Appeal to swing voters and sane Republicans (it's crucial that Bush is NOT left with a margin narrow enough to steal again!) - It's definitely there with Clark, and probably with Dean, once the corporate media's attempts to paint him as a "leftist extremist" has fallen apart.

This could be the best ticket for 2004.

[ButterflyBlood]

7. most of the replies here show people haven't seen the thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=81043

lots of people are saying they're upset with Dean over this.

I have two guesses why:

1-These people are basically against anyone who ever served in the military (professional killer, ect.)

or

2-Are a little upset about Clark's hesitence to declare himself a Democrat.

[salin]

good summary

and you are right, when I responded I had not yet read that thread.

[ilpostino]

9. Dean has eliminated Clark

In telling Larry King, and rightly so, that he would want/need a Washington insider as a Veep, he's essentially said it won't be Clark. It surely would have to be someone to provide geographical and ideological balance though..so I think Graham is the far more logical choice for him. As for Clark, although he's attractive on the surface, there's still a whole lot we don't know about him...most importantly why they relieved him of his command early. And until those unknowns are satisfactorily made known, I don't see him on the ticket in either spot.

[poskonig]

10. Dean knows Clark personally.

Though we do not, it is important to remain cognizant of this fact.

[tameszu]

11. You didn't watch Late Edition today

Things change fast...

[ilpostino]

13. Guilty as charged

So what did I miss while I was sunning myself by the pool?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

14. Perhaps the next President and VP of the US.

:shrug:

[tameszu]

16. This:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=81043

Also a handful of people on that thread (who I no longer listen to because all they ever do is bash Clark) threaten that they would abandon Dean because they hate baby-murdering Clark so much. Wankers.

[ilpostino]

25. Just saw your report

on the other thread, and as I said there, if your quote of Dean is accurate, I don't see at all where he says he'd choose Clark. I see a lot of complimentary weasling on the question (he's entitled, because, as he says, it's waaaaay too early for this discussion). Nonetheless, the logic of his comments to Larry King still holds. He can't look like he's coming in as a total outsider. Voters say that's what they want, but they also want experience. It's mostly a media myth, as the Cheney factor proves, but it wins votes. So if Dean's at the top of the ticket, I see an elected Washington player (with defense cred) as #2.

[dansolo]

28. Not exactly

I think you are referring to his comment about wanting someone with Washington experience. But that was only one aspect, and one that I think he would put aside for the other intangibles that Clark offers.

[GreenArrow]

15. three words...

Military Industrial Complex.

[tameszu]

17. Four more words:

Who coined that phrase?

[GreenArrow]

19. President Dwight D. Eisenhower

40+ years ago. And a Dean/Clark ticket won't prove him wrong.

[Pepperbelly]

21. 6 words ...

Nor will it prove him right.

:D

[GreenArrow]

24. the simple existence of Dean Clark ticket

however speculative at this point, is proving him right.

I mean, honest to God, that is the best this country can do?

Of course, I say the same thing when I see the current inhabitant of the White House, so Dean/Clark look a lot better in that light--talk about Military Industrial Complex!

[Pepperbelly]

26. I believe that you are ...

as the lawyers might say, assuming facts not in evidence.

So far, what I have seen is assumption and guilt-by-association. I don't like when gops do it nor do I like it when members of my party do it.

[GreenArrow]

29. The proof will be in the pudding

Having lived through Nixon, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, and now Bush II, I'm just a wee bit cynical. I do tend to assume the worst where politicians of either major party are concerned.

Honestly, I don't really know enough about Clark to make a fair judgment about him. If he commits, we'll all get to learn more about him. Dean seemed better four or five months ago, but I like and trust him less the more I learn of him. They both strike me as status quo. Unfortunately, status quo is probably the only thing that can get elected.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

18. Either way - Clark/Dean or Dean/Clark but,

I think that, politically speaking, Clark would be more viable for the simple reason that he doesn't carry any political baggage.

Also, if either of them are nominated, I would much rather see them pick a woman or a minority VP.

My first choice remains Sharpton, but Dean or Clark, are fine.

As someone who is extremely suspicious of the military (I'm a vet so save the flames) I was initially put off by Clark, but the more I see the more I like. I think he is possibly the only candidate that could unite the party. Liberal enough even for "extreme" lefties like me, and he should be able to satisfy the lust of the rightwingers for "moderate" votes.

[grasswire]

23. why why why?

Why doesn't the Democratic Party seize its moral authority and pick someone for the ticket that has struggled for working class people and for civil rights?

Someone like Clark/John Lewis or Dean/John Lewis would absolutely electrify the party, renew its spirit, and capture the imagination of low-income people and minorities.

Were all those struggles for naught? All those marches and sit-ins and all that blood and bruising and jailing and tribulation?

Capitalize on it!! Use the currency of RFK-MLK. Play the card, for the future of the everyday man here and around the world.

If not now, when?

[Pastiche423]

27. Until you brought up John Lewis' name

yesterday, I had not heard of him. I used the link you provided (thank you) to find out who he was and what he has done.

I agree w/you. A man like Lewis is exactly what our country needs NOW. We, as a country, have fallen too far from what we claim democracy is all about. It appears Lewis knows what democracy means and has fought for it for many, many years.

Out of curiousity, why did Lewis' name spring to your mind?

[salin]

41. Isn't Lewis the very centrist

young dem congressman who vied for minority leader and very undiplomatically trashed Pelosi when he didn't have the votes? The one who has been, I believe, supportive of the administration re: Iraq policies (I seem to remember this but could be wrong)? That John Lewis?

[salin]

42. My bad

Ignore my comments - Just found him - different Congressman.

Now who was I thinking about?????

Answered myself - Ford. I feel so foolish. Please folks, look the other way ;-)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

33. You'll get no argument from me.

John Lewis would make an incredible candidate for VP (or prez, for that matter).

Why won't they? Timidity, expediency and stupidity. They (the DLC types) fear losing already lost white "moderate" voters in the south. In their eyes it's safer to ignore black/minority votes because they are expected to vote Dem anyway.

The usual shortsightedness of political hacks prevails.

[chaska]

38. I can't let this pass without comment.

I posted a few days on this very issue. As I said then, Clark has hinted or spoken outright on behalf of the poor in most of his appearances. I have no doubt this is an issue he cares deeply about. It's a major reason I plan to vote for him.

[revcarol]

30. Dean/Clark would beat Bush,

BUT THEN WHAT WOULD WE HAVE??

A President who says he will not reduce the defense budget "in this time of terror"-Hannity program, yet wants to be fiscally conservative and end up with a balanced budget like he is so proud of in Vermont...and a former military man making extremely good money as a retired general and commentator on TV who does not hesitate to associate himself with the military-industrial complex.

Now tell me that's what you really envision for America----AAAAARRRGGHH.

Keep in mind that repealing BOTH tax cuts in their entirety would only remove 30% of the deficit, and then where would you make up the difference in balancing the budget except cutting "discretionary spending," the social and infrastructure spending that keeps our nation together!!

When and if this "team" decides to run together and when or even IF they decide to cut military spending on unneeded war toys by 15% to 20%, THEN THEY WILL BE WORTH MY CONSIDERATION.

That's it, guy and gals. Over and out.

[Booberdawg]

31. Let's put it this way

How would you feel about a Clark/Dean ticket?

You are asking people to agree to discounting Clark as a presidential candidate by suggesting he be a VP instead.

[DemBones DemBones]

32. Two words.

Dean. Clark.

[greenwow]

34. Vote for a professional killer?

I can't imagine I'm not seeing a more hostile reaction here wrt Dean selecting that type of person as a running-mate.

[Pastiche423]

44. Ten months ago

I would have been surprised too. But more and more DUers seem to buy into the repug myth that we must apppear pro-war, or else we will lose.

I can't vote pro-war. It's against my very being.

[GreenArrow]

45. The whole focus is on winning

When all is said and done, we'll have a corporatist president--whether "Democrat" or "Republican" remains to be seen.

The trouble with using one's opponent's tactics, beliefs, tools is that one runs the risk of becoming just like one's opponent.

[jfkennedy]

35. Dean is the most unelectable of the 9

Dean does not have chance against Bush. I'm sure Clark would never pick him as VP. Dean should be the one running the DNC.Dean could do greater things for his country and accomplish more in that spot.

The ticket will be Clark/ Edwards.

[ButterflyBlood]

40. Sharpton has a better chance than Dean?

give me a break.

[Mari333]

36. I mentioned this ticket on here MONTHS ago

and I am 100% behind it.

[TheBigGuy]

37. I am pulling for Dean/Graham....ticket balancing & complementary

I think Dean is going to need a moderate Southerner to balance the ticket and Graham fills that bill. Graham also complements Deans antiwar stand.

Clark, while a good veep choice and a native of Arkansas isn't really precieved as a Southerner by the public and doenst really sound like one either, and is a political unknown, so he doesnt have the same political weight that Graham would bring to the ticket.

[chaska]

39. On Booberdawg's post...

The only way Dean could *maybe* win (big maybe) is with Clark as VP. Clark, on the other hand, not only doesn't need Dean, he would be hurt by him.

It would never work, if for no other reason than the egos involved.

While I am somewhat intrigued with the idea of a Clark/Edwards ticket, because it could possibly deliver North and South Carolina (again, big maybe), I still haven't heard a better combination than Clark/Richardson.

Dean/Graham - Graham ain't that popular anywhere (even Fla.) lately. I'm not sure that works. But what do I care, it's gonna be Clark and "to be announced".

[juajen]

43. Mainly because, IMHO

Clark, if he runs, will get more votes than Dean, then it will be up to Clark who gets the nod. Clark's appeal is to a wider margin of voters, nothing against Dean. Also, Clark is pretty used to giving orders, rather than taking them. And, NO, as of this time, I am a Kucinich supporter.

GO DENNIS GO!!!!!