Face the Nation - "no strategy in Iraq"..........

[cthrumatrix]

Tom "the whore" Friedman and Gen Clark shared their views and the takeaway is that there "is no strategy" with our efforts in IRAQ.

It would have been a pefect opening for..."well there appears to be a strategy for the oil, the Halliburton's, Brown & Root"...they have their "fat" no-bid contracts.

Either way...the strategy question goes back to Bush. The Iraq issue cannot linger. He may have fattened the coffers of his buddies..but it will cost him (IMHO).

[FloridaPat]

1. So far it's costing the average American. And if the average

American doesn't wake up, it won't cost Bush anything.

[Jacobin]

2. Tom "Let's Give War A Chance" Friedman

Actual name of an article he wrote in the NYT last spring.

Hey, Tommy Boy!!! WTF happened with Iraq and your glorious leader Smirk?

Where are all those flowers you promised, you phuck!!!

[Cha]

7. Can you imagine? friedman was WRONG!

Dumb "phuck" is Right!

[shockandawed]

3. Boy, yeah, Clark was really impressive (NOT)

Clark disappoints. He is NOT a man who can beat Bush. Clark, IMO is only trying to was blood off of his hands by hanging out with the anti-war folks, but he to me does not fit.

He missed opportunity after opportunity to tear Bush policy apart as a person with the credibility to do so. Did he? Kinda.

Clark is as boring as an 8 AM geometry class, but with less definitive answers.

[poskonig]

4. Clark can defeat Bush

though I agree Clark consistently comes off meek, dweeby, and vague.

[liberalnurse]

6. I think his best position would be as a VP candidate.

The more he drags out his anouncement, the more I feel that is his target. Now, who would he bond with? I think Dean...then again...the Kerry "comming out" anouncement could include a VP-Clark. I only suggest that is due to the timing is neck-n-neck....could there be a relationship? I don't know....

Dean and Clark complement each other.....It would be a powerful team.
Clark tends to cancel out Kerry on a ticket.....it would be a tough sell.

[disgruntella]

8. how does clark "cancel kerry out" exactly?

Because both have military backgrounds? I don't buy that.

I am curious why you think one cancels out the other (in a respectful, non-flaming manner).

[liberalnurse]

9. Yea, thats about it.....

plus, Clark is indentifying the quagmire effect of the Iraqi occupation....Kerry supported the war which most congressional dem's did .....thats how I see Clark canceling him out. There may be a way to turn it into a selling point, but I'm not keen enough to see it.

I'm not sure a dual military ticket will turn on the general public. Most are sick of fear and war....fear and war...oh now more war....preception from such a ticket.

Just a thoought. I want to win...I've got to process all options.

[disgruntella]

10. my perception of the ticket would be different

Knowing that we are at war, I would have a lot much less fear about it if I knew the people running the country had a clue about how to "win the peace" - see http://www.johnkerry.com/news/speeches/spc_2003_0710.html for Kerry's suggestions.

I don't know if the majority of Americans would really be all that turned off by a team of Democrats with demonstrated competence in military and foreign policy issues. Versus Republican Chickenhawk Exhibits A & B.

Also, seeing Kerry as "just" a military candidate is overly simplistic IMO. That said, at this point I'm just as interested in Dean for president as I am in Kerry, so I'm not writing Dean off (nor, heaven forbid, am I "bashing")

[liberalnurse]

14. I hear ya....

me neither......I'm looking to take back the White House, period. We need to be realistic and process all options. The next few months will be a defining period. I'm looking at all three; Kerry, Dean Clark.

I wouldn't want to give Gephardt a dring of water in Iraq. I'm still ticked off that he was out campaigning for votes instead of being on the job in congress to kill the overtime rules "tweek" bill. We lost by 5 absent dem votes.

[disgruntella]

15. off-topic: glad to know there's a liberal nurse in Ohio

My mom's family is there (near Mansfield), including at least 2 arch-conservative nurses who are my cousins :)

Thanks for the info on the overtime bill too.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

18. Uh....Kerry voted FOR the invasion

Sorry to remind of you of the fact that Kerry supported the fratboy's lates corporate aquisition scheme.

I can't see anything cancelling out that little bit of cowardice.

[disgruntella]

19. oh reeeeally? gosh, I had no idea!!

</sarcasm>

Personally, I can't see a single vote determining my stance on a candidate. I'm not overjoyed about the vote, and I haven't drawn any conclusions on whether I'll support Kerry over anyone else.

But I prefer to look at the Iraq vote in the context of the rest of Kerry's record, rather than use it to repeatedly whack him over the head. Call me pragmatic or cynical, but I have a feeling I'll be electing a politician in 2004, and not a moral role model.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

22. cynical sounds about right

Your ability to write off thousands of Iraqi dead in the name of political expediency as Kerry (and the other 3 did) indicates that.

Pragmatic? The only thing now propping duh-dubya up is his now shakey popularity as a successful warrior. As the situation in Iraq and Afghanistan continues to deteriorate and the questions about the quagmire continue to arise, the war is becoming the primary issue. Leaving morality aside (as you are all too willing to do) the repugs have an easy out with Kerry (Lieberman, Gephardt, Edwards), to wit, "But, you voted for it, senator."

Dean or Clark, (the rest of the anti-war candidates don't have a realistic chance IMO), won't have to defend that vote.

[disgruntella]

25. do not imply that I lack morality for supporting Kerry

I was against the war from day one. Your message implies that I don't care about the deaths of innocent people, and that makes me extremely angry.

All I was saying was that I can't judge a candidate by a single vote. I don't know what information he had. I don't know what the wishes of his constituents were. Am I ecstatic that he voted for this resolution? No. I don't expect politicians to be perfect.

And I don't think Kerry is an easy out, either. But if I write much more in the angry state I am in I'll probably get banned. I'm just sick and tired of all this Monday-morning-quarterbacking with the senators who voted for the IWR -- "they should have known, blah blah blah" -- tell me about it after *you* have been a U.S. Senator for 21 years.

[teryang]

11. I agree

I think a Dean Clark ticket is practical. I also like a Dean Edwards ticket. Clark would do better with the national security functions now inherent in the VPs office and keep Dean better tied in with (recalcitrant) bureaucrats in the Pentagon and CIA. I love Edwards domestic policy but I think he is too inexperienced in the national security area. He is because of this inexperience he is often "me too" on foreign affairs issues and lacks some depth there.

[unfrigginreal]

5. And who are you supporting?

I can hardly wait to see your answer.

[chaska]

12. Ah, now I know what I'm dealing with here.

Geometry class huh? So you're what 15-16? Or is it just that you think like one? If anger (alla Dean) is the emotion we will use to win over voters, we will ensure a landslide for bush.

[Pepperbelly]

16. there is no reasoning with some people and ...

I fear this one is one of those.

I was guess 12-14 myself. :D

[unfrigginreal]

20. Amazing that you would suggest he's a Dean supporter...

based on what? Your hate?

[Pepperbelly]

21. withdrawn on ...

closer inspection.

I was wrong.

Peace.

[snyttri]

17. Clark has been an adviser to Dean on Iraq and they say similar things

You should be glad to have the miltary presence in the argument.

[htuttle]

13. Sure they have a strategy. Here's their exit strategy

It's called, "Keep the helicopter warmed up."

Luckily, most of Saddam's former palaces have flat roofs.

(on edit: usage)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. Thanks for the reminder.

A great picture of a former group of "liberators" leaving victoriously.

[htuttle]

24. Yes. Peace with Honor, you know

.