BBV: a toxic topic for DU now ???

[nostamj]

on edit:

TWO posts on this article are falling off w/o a reply. sad.

WATCH CNBC tomorrow @ 8pm Eastern for Bev & Andy with Howard Dean. or don't. whatever....


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/08/opinion/08sun3.html

Rolling Down the Highway, Looking Out for Flawed Elections

<snip>

Ms. Harris's visit to Mohave County was part of a monthlong trip in which she and her deputy, Andy Stephenson, traveled to 10 states, investigating flaws in electronic voting and giving on-the-fly computer security tutorials.

The trip started out in Ohio, where they knocked on the doors of employees of Diebold, one of the largest and most criticized voting machine companies. It ended in late July in Las Vegas at Defcon, a hackers' convention, where the consensus was that cracking a voting machine might not be so hard.

Ms. Harris, the director of Black Box Voting (the Web address is www.blackboxvoting.org), has made herself public enemy No. 1 for voting machine manufacturers, and some elections officials, with her hard-edged attacks on electronic voting and her investigative style. (She acknowledges that at one point in Ohio, she and Mr. Stephenson hid in the bushes with a microphone, eavesdropping on Diebold workers.)

But there is no denying that Ms. Harris, a onetime literary publicist from the Seattle area, is responsible for digging up some of the most disturbing information yet to surface about the accuracy and integrity of electronic voting.

"I wouldn't want to play her role," says Aviel Rubin, a Johns Hopkins computer science professor and a leading critic of electronic voting. "But we're all better off that she's out there."

=========

NOTE: Bev and Andy appear on CNBC with Howard Dean, Sunday @ 8pm Eastern... watch them show "The Doctor" how to hack an election!

[nostamj]

1. .

[TrustingDog]

2. bump

[ParanoidPat]

3. Not toxic at all my friend!

Just walking the walk rather than wasting time talking. :evilgrin:

[glitch]

4. it's nice to know it's finally hitting the mainstream but this is stuff

we've all known for years now.
Maybe it's not sad that it's old news to DUers!

[Andy_Stephenson]

6. It is even more vital now! We must keep it new....

We have to put personalities and ego's aside for all our sakes. Too much is at stake. I have seen what is going on first hand and all is not well. Wish I could say it was but it isn't. None of us are going to be sure in the fall. No matter who wins. Think we are divided now...wait till then. Remember a house divided will surely fall.

Andy

[BevHarris]

19. We visited Mohave County because vote tallies wandered downward

We visited Mohave County because it had CNN reports that showed its tallies going down during the primary on Feb 3. That was, I believe, submitted by Roxanne Jekot of Georgia, and was a great catch. The county election supervisor for Mohave, Alan Tempert (may have misspelled, don't have his card handy) claims it never happened.

What we learned from this is to catch the screen grabs directly from the county or state web site, not CNN, because he pointed the finger at CNN for an error. CNN, of course, can then point to interns who are no longer there, if an answer can be found at all.

I asked him for the data files, and it so happens that he suddenly discovered he'd erased them, just cleaning up, you know. Which leads to another recommendation we'll be making: We need much stricter regulations on this business of destroying documentation. Right now, it's perfectly legal.

San Bernardino County also had declining tallies, on the prez. primary on March 2. County Registrar explained that was because "test votes had been left in the system and were taken out after the count had started." (He also admitted that they used an uncertified central tabulator addition called ARROW and that they "massaged the data.") But he said he didn't mean "massage" in a bad way.

I also asked both counties for a list of people who accessed their central tabulator during the election, and both admitted that they never write it down. They both claimed to keep the list in their head. Mohave County verbally recalled that it was himself, four Diebold employees and a temp for Diebold. San Bernardino said he didn't have to tell us who has access. We did a public records request, but he never replied to it. He told us during our visit that public records requests only apply to information you write down, and he doesn't write down who accesses his central tabulator.

Bev

[BevHarris]

5. Actually, several NEW stories are bubbling up

We have previews of some of them on http://www.blackboxvoting.org

Beginning Aug. 12 with new web rollout, new consumer reports daily.

In the NYT article:
- report of Indiana voting officials being taken on a shopping trip by ES&S
- report of votes going DOWN on election night in San Bernardino county, CA

at blackboxvoting.org site
- report on the upcoming split among voting activists -- watch for "the paper ballot people" and "the crypto people"
- ballot printing problems
- use of temporary employees
- what the heck is the new infrared ink on ES&S ballots
- laptop stolen from Diebold by temp may include 1.4 million social security numbers, birthdates, etc. Identity theft, anyone? (Bill Gates, are you listening?)

By the way, it took Gov. Dean 90 seconds to manipulate an election. He turns to California Secretary of state Kevin Shelley and says "what are you going to do about it?"

Kevin Shelley called me the next day. Andy and I are going to California this week to (finally!!!) demonstrate various GEMS hacks to state officials.

We learned in Mohave County, Arizona, that Diebold did NOT fix the flaws found in GEMS.

Bev

[ParanoidPat]

7. Bev, please let me know when you guys will be 'in town'......

.....:evilgrin:

[Andy_Stephenson]

9. "Visiting a Motel 6 near you soon"

How prophetic is that...all the Mfgs have one within in a mile. Great for visiting with employees. Convenient on lunch breaks.

[BevHarris]

12. hah! (it's true)

can't believe you went there, Andy.

Yup:
not only is there a Motel 6 near the Deibold HQ in Ohio, the Alamo rental car place is actually sharing office space with Diebold auxilliary offices. (That's where we hid in the bushes; employees were on break discussing "the Florida problem)

Another Motel 6 by Diebold Election HQ in McKinney.
Another Motel 6 by ES&S in Omaha.
Another Motel 6 by Sequoia in Oakland.
The Motel 6 is just a few miles away from Hart Intercivic in Austin.
Another Motel 6 by Diebold's plant in Everett.

We weren't kidding when we said "a Motel 6 near you."
Can't beat $29.95 per room (Austin).
Well, yes you can: A nice suite with a kitchen for $39.95 in Kennesaw Georgia, the land of Dr. Brit Williams, Georgia voting machine examiner.

Cheap lodging and shoddy manufacturing go hand in hand, apparently.

[Andy_Stephenson]

14. I just could not help myself

it is a great story. Wish I could tell more but I won't. :-)

[BevHarris]

10. Wed - Thurs this week

was just going to contact you about that.

Also, would love to bring you along as a citizen investigator -- see my post in the other thread by VelmaD on that.

We are having voting activists accompany us on our investigative tours. It is important to have more people learn the interviewing and documentation techniques so that, when elections this fall hit, we can send people out in the field all over the place to sniff out the real story behind anomalies.

And, even if you can't come with us, Pat, we need to share a Merlot!

Bev

[Andy_Stephenson]

11. Merlot?

No somehow I think Tequila...well fer me anyway. :-)

[ParanoidPat]

13. I'm packing right now.....

......and drinking, of all things, a 1998 Windmill Hill Merlot! :toast:

Don't worry Andy, I havn't forgotten about the Tequila! (As long as you're paying for the room! ;-) )

[Andy_Stephenson]

15. You are gonna love Motel 6

No matter where you go...the rooms are all the same. It is good for those late nights when you stumble in...in the dark.

[Andy_Stephenson]

16. I love Wine but...

it does not love me. Everytime I drink red wines I get a major headache.

[salin]

32. I read the Indiana reference in the NYT piece

where in Indiana did this happen?

[alfredo]

8. Thanks for the info.

Not toxic, our fearless leader has been on a road trip.

[yowzayowzayowza]

17. Toxic?

"But we're all better off that she's out there."

I could say the same thing about my smelly snotty-nosed bulldog. Itz utility don't mean I'm gunna share my house with it.

Hereza :kick: for ole timez sake.

[BevHarris]

18. Another item of interest: Massive citizen election monitoring

The seven groups I reported on in late June (each monitoring a different aspect) has expanded to at least 10. We've got a meeting tomorrow to coordinate on the national incident reporting system among groups.

Common Cause has, I believe, over 50,000 monitors who will be focusing on preventing vote suppression. I heard a representative from Jesse Jackson's Rainbow Coalition on TV on that this morning.

Verified Voting has a new "techwatch" program, with computer professionals helping to sort out problems on the spot.

Black Box Voting has two things going this fall for monitoring: on-site investigations, including citizen investigators who travel with us and afterward, are on call to make visits, and Citizen monitors, some of whom are poll workers and election judges, who will help catch discrepancies in core audit data. Some citizen monitors will be following up on whether security procedures are followed (like whether polling place tapes are posted at the polling place on election night, and comparing those results with the central tabulator results). Others will focus on core audit data.

Bev

[linazelle]

20. kick

:kick:

[LWolf]

21. Not here.

I'm glad to find this post. If I'm home in time tonight, I'll try to find CNBC.

:thumbsup:

[kentuck]

22. Great coverage for Bev and the "issue"...

I think many people cannot bring themselves to admit that anyone would actually try to sabotage our voting system. It must be a conspiracy theory and not worthy of too much attention??

[PATRICK]

23. Without her opposition

the weak sanity of critics would not be heard until some disaster belatedly "exposed" massive fraud. Of course, the beauty of that is that by then it would be too late to even have a country that could correct the situation.

The number one exposure is the degree to which companies are determined to palm off shoddy, insecure software and never surrender to auditability or reason even were this to cost them the contract. That speaks volumes about what is going on even without examples of dangers and open violations already ongoing and sloughed off.

Still, it is excruciating that the whole point- namely that private source code and counting in effect adjudicated by private firms(with stated political loyalties no less!) is an irrational place to toss your invisibly translated ballots. The fact it is fundamentally insecure on a grand scale never goes front and center, though the latest legislation were it to pass may remedy a bad situation. (The loopholes constantly appearing in these very late laws shows a dangerous intentionality as well).

Considering the dupes and allies of this great fraud tool, the BBV crusaders have probably saved democracy. Certainly not even legislative reform would have done this on its own and may not intend to now.

I note that the Times story makes her the story and once again ignores the obvious and clear danger of the machines. What is it, some damned contest when it involves good people seeking justice? that isn't how they treat the dark side.

[BevHarris]

28. You are absolutely right, Patrick. The big story is not out yet

The best indication of just how sick our voting system has become is that our governments are still buying the same stuff that has been soundly discredited by FIVE independent studies, not including my own work.

Note that CompuWare just issued a new study on all four manufacturers in Ohio in July. Ohio put touch screens on hold but no one else has -- and Ohio still bought the badly flawed central tabulator software from Diebold.

California has NOT PERMITTED us to demonstrate the GEMS hack until now -- and we'll see how cooperative they are this time. Thanks to Howard Dean, who turned to Kevin Shelley on the air and said "What are you going to do about it?" and thanks to numerous contacts I've had from 60 Minutes, 20/20 etc we can now legitimately tell government leaders that if they don't want to see the problems first hand, they can plan on watching an expose on TV.

Hopefully, we'll have California educated this week. The most effective demonstration, which Andy and I have perfected, is to hand the government official the mouse and have them manipulate the election themselves. Sometimes we use a stopwatch.

Yet, until they toss Diebold out of the approved vendor list altogether, and stop buying this junk, we haven't made enough headway on the real problem, which is, as you say, the irrationality of throwing our vote into these things in the first place.

Bev

[ramblin_dave]

24. Not toxic but victim of bad reporting - CJR article

Good article in the Columbia Jornalism Review:

http://www.campaigndesk.org/archives/000805.asp

"The stories that have appeared largely have been local, piecemeal and rarely rise much beyond the "he said/she said" level of reporting. As a result, the public -- to the extent that it's even aware of the controversy -- is left to its own devices to figure out a complex issue, with considerable ramifications."

[kentuck]

25. Kick!

:kick:

[Bushfire]

26. Can anyone do a video or mp3 capture of CNBC?

I dropped my cable a little too early it seems...

[BevHarris]

27. Just found out -- in the Seattle area it's on 3 times

5 p.m. , 8 p.m. and midnight.

The demonstration of manipulating the election is by far the most explicit yet. I saw an edited version (but they still had to cut from it to hit time deadlines).

We did help Tiger Woods get some votes, a suggestion of Howard Dean.}(

Bev

[glitch]

29. This link was posted on DU awhile back - time for another kick

http://vevo.verifiedvoting.org/techwatch/

"Volunteer for TechWatch!

Are you a technology professional interested in election integrity? A geek who believes every vote should be recorded as intended? A techie who stands for reliable and publicly verifiable election systems?

If so, TechWatch is for you!
TechWatch logo

TechWatch volunteers will receive training and participate in important non-partisan election monitoring activities, observing and documenting:

* Logic & Accuracy testing of voting technology by election officials prior to Election Day
* Poll Watching on Election Day (assigned to a single polling place or central election office)
* Election Incidents on Election Day (on dispatch from an Election Incident Reporting system to polling places within a given county)

By applying technical expertise to mind the polls, TechWatch volunteers can chronicle election problems at this upcoming election and future elections, as well as for follow-on litigation and policymaking, in a way that most poll watchers cannot.

More than 750 technologists have already volunteered, but it will take thousands of TechWatch volunteers to cover priority states and key counties, starting with the Florida primary on August 31 and continuing through to the November 2 general election."

[OnionPatch]

30. No! Not toxic!!

Please don't stop posting this stuff! This is one of the main reasons I come to DU! This information is instrumental. I think at this point, with Bush getting lower in the polls, this issue is the most important issue of the election! I can't see Bush winning unless he has some "help" somehow. I appreciate every post you make on this topic. I guess I just don't respond most of the time because I don't know what else I could add other than thanks for keeping us up to date. As for myself, I've signed every petition, called and written congressmen many times, published articles on it in my newsletter, written letters to the editor, donated what I could and generally did everything I could think to do. Thanks for all you do and please keep posting on this issue. :loveya:

[nostamj]

31. i was in a pissy mood last night

and regret changing subject line...

[OnionPatch]

33. I've been in a pissy mood

since November 2000. :nuke: so, no problem.
By the way, I forgot to mention that I got in a running e-mail arguement with Mischelle Townsend of Riverside County over this issue. She had said that Boxer was "out of touch with the constituents" if she thought people were worried about the machines. I wrote to correct her. :grr: So glad she's gone.

[duhneece]

34. Heck no. Here is news from New Mexico

This is a message sent out to Verified Voting New Mexico:
Denise Lang, (that's lang, not Denise Lamb, Bureau of Elections Director) got us on the radio in otero county (KRSY-AM-TALK). Her timing was ideal since congressman Steven Pierce was on the same show so he talked a bit about the Verified voting issue and espoused support, citing several examples of malfunctions of the e-machines including one that failed to register a vote for Bush when voting a straight Rep ticket and that he found the issue very, very important. That's good to hear because up until now his staff had not released an opinion. Denise may have forced the issue!

Good job Denise. I called in and made a few comments, but Denise ran
the show. She got the interest of the local paper so there may be some follow-ups there. Denise can tell us more.

Pearce mentioned he is a signer of Congressman King's Bill. I dont know what this is.
Hopefully its a good bill. Would someone look into this and report
back?

A report on KUNM about ACLU conference reportedly was not to Denise
Lamb's (not lang) liking and she gave KUNM heck to make toruble for the reporter. KUNMs proper response was to offer a longer, probably two
part story, letting Denise Lamb and me state the argument in our own
words. I have high hopes. I dont know how long the segments will be
but they should air tuesday or wed next week.

Put this on your callendar: KUNM is currently planning a call in show
thursday after next on this.

The TrueMajority Ads are running in Benralillo, but now its time to
start calling Thaddeous Lucero the county manager and leaving him
messages that you want the county to withhold funding for Touchscreen
systems and request that mary herrera not obligate the county by
wasting HAVA funds on questionable machines.
505 768 4000

Please do this today and all next week.

[Bushfire]

35. you may also want to post this info in the NM forum here

and over at www.blackboxvoting.org . Good work though.

[WLKjr]

36. KICK

:kick:

[Cleita]

37. Hey it was on my agenda. Thanks for the heads up.

Sorry I didn't reply.

[Zhade]

38. It's the personality thing that's the problem.

Bev's repeated slandering and libeling of some DUers (like her self-admitted co-author David Allen, for one) kind of taints the whole topic here.

I'm still wondering how Bev was justified in filing a Qui Tam lawsuit while at the same time wrongfully accusing others (not me, though) of doing so.

The general impression given was that such a lawsuit would seal evidence - and either Bev knew this was the case and filed anyway, or knew it was NOT the case and used others' belief that evidence would be sealed as part of her accusations, knowing that part of the accusation ("you'll seal the evidence!") was not likely to happen.

Since I never read a reasonable explanation from her as to this discrepancy, I've come to distrust her. Which I find very sad, as I once offered to physically protect her if need be.

As a consequence of all this, my desire to be involved in the subject died.

:shrug: