let's face it, our military is corrupt

[donsu]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A39796-2004Aug4?language=printer

Military Intelligence Ordered Captives Hidden, Court Told

Military intelligence officials at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq ordered military police soldiers to keep several detainees hidden from the International Committee of the Red Cross, leaving a coded message on cell doors to indicate which detainees the visitors were not allowed to see or interview, according to court testimony here Wednesday.

Staff Sgt. Christopher Ward, a member of the 372nd Military Police Company who was in charge of the day shift at Abu Ghraib's most secure cellblock, said that during at least three official visits last fall and winter, he was ordered to steer the ICRC away from certain detainees whose cells were tagged with signs bearing the words "Article 134." Some of them were kept in a part of the prison's Tier 1A that was obscured by two separate doors.

-snip-

Chief Warrant Officer Edward Rivas, who coordinated interrogations for military intelligence at the prison, said MPs were not employed to rough up detainees and instead were asked to perform passive duties such as monitoring and imposing sleep management programs. Rivas added that he believed the controversial tactic of using unmuzzled dogs during interrogations was imposed in a "very, very limited" manner. "That was one of the things that had to go all the way to the top, sir," Rivas testified by telephone from Iraq.
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[enki23]

1. it's not "the military"

it's us. the people in the military are us.

[The Backlash Cometh]

2. Well, it is being run like a business these days.

What did you expect?

[in_cog_ni_to]

3. Our GOVERNMENT is corrupt.

The Commander-In-Chief is responsible for the military. They are suppose to answer to him. Blame it on the idiot-in-chief. "The Buck Stops Here."

[Octafish]

4. You and I owe our freedom to the US military.

Certainly there are some in uniform who are crooks -- look at the commander-in-thief. Bushler's going to surround himself with like-minded scum. But that's not the rank and file. The vast majority are willing to give their lives to protect the nation and support the Constitution.

Remember Memorial Day. How many hundreds of thousands have given their lives so that we may live? The men and women in the US armed forces beat the fascists and the communists -- totalitarians who wanted to destroy the United States.

They also have served to protect us from domestic enemies, like the BFEE. BTW: They read DU.

[Malva Zebrina]

5. It is not popular here to criticize the military

we are all supposed to sport yellow ribbons and declare, no matter how much of a logical fallacy, that we support the troops. I saw hundreds of them pasted on cars in Vermont when I visited there recently. It makes no logical sense at all for anyone who does not and did not support this war to sport that ribbon.

--you are speaking of times that were far different than now.

Yes, soldiers did go to war to fight Hitler, and yes, we were attacked by Japan--a bonofide country, with a military that surrendered to us by signing a proclammation of surrender. Yes they were visible enemies. Yes, our soldiers were brave heroes in that war.

However--it certainly does not make any sense at all to me that we conquored communism and prevented it from invading our country using our military to defend this country. I think that is a myth many would like to believe.

The wars, so called and so used by propagandists that are at least if not more clever than any of Hilter's cronies, are not "wars" in the conventional sense at all. There is no country invading and attacking us. There will be no country invading and attacking us with their military. There will be no documents of surrender--terrorism as spoken of by Bush to scare his own people is not a country. If you believe otherwise, then you are vulnerable to the propaganda that Bush, Rove , and the rest of the terror czars uses against his own people with all these questionable alerts.

We are the largest, the wealthiest, the best militarily equipped country in the world with bases spread all over the world. NO ONE is going to attack us at all in the usual manner one country attacks another, such as we did in Iraq. We will use our military to invade and occupy other small countries who have what we covet--this is not a brave military, imo. This is not the ones I would honor on Memorial Day, I am sorry to say. It seems more like terrorism to me and it certainly is not a war and Bush certainly is not a war president.

I am sorry there are some young people who were caught by Bush--the ones who thought they would be getting a college education that they could not afford otherwise, or others who needed extra money,. That is sad that young people must agree to possibly die to get an education.

The answer to that type of tragedy, is to tell the truth about the desires of the United States as it seeks to add more and more countries to it's list of conquorable small country colonies. Tell the truth to the children about military service--if you have taught them the hypocrisy of it, and the myths behind the propaganda of the "brave warrior" that knocks out communists from doing this nation harem and they still choose be become invaders then I have no desire to "support the troops" They will and are the ones who are doing the killing for Bush and who knows who else.

Someone wearing a uniform is dropping the b ombs and pulling the trigger and doing the killing of tens of thousands. I do not support the war and I cannnot follow through and say I support the troops who are the tools used to kill innocents.

[Octafish]

11. You are free to think and feel the way you do.

And I respect your opinion and support your right to hold them and state them.

BTW: I've held a grudge against certain members of the military that goes back to 22 November 1963.

[Malva Zebrina]

15. Of course!

I hold no grudge toward anyone except those who orchestrated this fraudulent war--the Bush regime and possibly the PNAC and all it's evil members.

[5thGenDemocrat]

13. Marianne, as a veteran I can't say I agree with your viewpoint

But you just expressed it as eloquently as I've seen here. Thank you for that.
I was a teletype operator in the Army Signal Corps, so I won't profess to know the first thing about killing and combat -- nor, since I never left the states, can I speak to the imperialistic part of your equation.
My family has served in the military since the Revolution. We've been involved in every war, save Bush War I, this country's ever been in and not a single one of us has ever been drafted.
For that, brother Chuck was an MP in the mid-70s. Dad was in Counterintelligence during Korea and Aunt Anita retired after 23 years in the Air Force, most of it as a personnel paper-shuffler. Grandpa Bill drove a jeep in London in WWII after being the last family member to actually come under fire (at Chateau-Thierry in WWI). And my nephew Ryan is presently serving his second enlistment at Dover AFB, Delaware.
I guess what I'm saying is that none of us went into the military looking for adventure or glory. And I'm the only one who went to college afterwards, so it wasn't for the subsidized education, either. It's just what we do. And it's been a net positive experience for most of us.
That said, I admit I wouldn't encourage a child of mine to go in just now, largely because of Dopey's imperialistic intentions.
When I was considering enlisting back in 1973, dad suggested I do so directly, as the Army was just finishing up the Vietnam conflict and wasn't, in dad's opinion, going to get into another one any time soon.
That was exactly how it worked out. I put in my time in Kentucky, Georgia and Virginia, serving out a very mundane, though nattily attired, enlistment. I stopped exactly zero Communist aggression, but did see some great concerts in Norfolk and got to visit Yorktown and Kitty Hawk to boot. I also drank quite a bit.
So I'm glad I served and still think there are several positives to having done so. I wouldn't tell a youngster to dismiss a military career out of hand, and I still believe that someone has to stand the watch.
I also think the military is presently being misused. Even if there were legitimate reasons to be in Iraq (I can't think of any) we shouldn't be using our National Guardsmen and Reserves because it isn't their job.
The fault lies with the commanders, though, and not the troops. Like another poster said, the military is us -- no better or worse than the citizens who serve in it. It can be used for good or evil, depending on whose hand is on the switch. In my day, that was Nixon and Ford. Today -- well, I won't cause Godwin's Law to be invoked here.
Anyhow, thanks again for stating your case so well. I only hope you can decipher this poor response. Best regards
John
US Army (SigC)
Battery Parrott
Fort Monroe, VA 23651
1974-76

[Malva Zebrina]

17. thank you John

for relating your military experience. My family has also participated in the Revolution having arrived on these shores early in the seventeenth century.

Some fled to Canada however and became distinguished members of their community. :eyes: :evilfrown: Perhaps I have inherited those genes--the minister, the poet, the mayor of the town instead of the yeomen who guided the troops up the Hudson River :-)

[DrWeird]

6. Yes, of course!

Those Iraqi children's rectums hate us for our freedom and will do anything to prevent us from our freedom to shop at Walmart.

We really need to watch what we say around here. THEY might be listening.

[Octafish]

14. Feel free.

Think what you want. Say what you want. Do what you want. I certainly do.

And I don't give a damn what anyone else thinks about my opinions -- including the Pentagon and you. And I’ll continue to state them.

One thing I do resent: I resent what you imply, Dr Weird. I do not “watch what I say.” Nor do I “watch what I do.” Nor do I tell you or anyone else what to believe, think or do.

Maybe you’ve missed it, but I am a CONSTANT critic of the Bush "administration.” I've also criticized the Pentagon, the armed services, the DIA, NSA, CIA and most other government agencies having to do with national security.

Most of my posts over the past two-and-half years have been critical of the Pentagon, the illegal invasion and the crooked unelected moron who "serves" as commander-in-chief. I’ve done so on DU and in person and in public.

Unlike many DUers and visitors to DU, however, I remember the men and women in uniform have made it possible for us to have our opinions. Members of my family have fought for this country since the Revolutionary War. And I fight to keep it free, today.

So, hear this: I do not hold a grudge against the majority of the men and women in uniform. There is a distinction between Rumsfeld and the four-stars and the lower ranks. And each member is a human being, almost all are American citizens, and the majority will vote.

That’s why I reminded my fellow DUers that we have many visitors, and DUers, who are active-duty military. Most of all, I hope these men and women in uniform vote for John Kerry for President.

Understand?

[dorktv]

7. Not so much the military but the people in charge.

[cthrumatrix]

8. I think that is the point....we support our military...not the liars

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. The military is the enforcer for corporations and greed.

It's "duty" has been to protect America's "Vital Interests" ($$$) almost since it's inception. With the exceptions of the Civil War and WWII, it has almost always been used to protect corporations and greed.

From the Indian Wars for land, to Iraq for oil, our military has been used to ensure America's right to make money.

[tabasco]

10. There is corruption in the military ...

but IMO, it is incorrect to indict the entire military. I feel the greatest problem is at the top, where many generals retire and go onto boards of war profiteering corporations. There are rules in place that are totally ineffective. I would suggest a ban on retired officers above the grade of O-5 working for companies that do business with the Pentagon. The whole system breeds corruption and encourages war.
There are criminals in the lower ranks, but from my experience the great majority of rank and file troops are decent people. I was in the infantry, where the rubber meets the road. I worked with some of the finest people I will ever know. I support the troops that are trying to do their best and have no intention of harming civilians. So, yes, I support the troops.

[indigobusiness]

12. The "Military' is a culture of trained killers

indoctrinated by an uneasy imbalance of noble purpose and tragic reality.

[wadestock]

16. YES it is....and it's permeated throughout the DOD

The scum has literally risen to the top....much a phenomenon of the business world as we all know...but certainly the DOD has been leading the way for years on this.

The guys who develop the weapons are in bed with certain contractors, yaddi yaddi...the actual weapons we are developing are obviously more in tune with what would be called the "european scenario"....in other words....they are spreading state of the art weaponry around the world that really has no use in the current war against terror.....and is quite literally based on theories as old as the cold war.....