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ProfessorPlum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 10:54 AM
Original message
Help me redeem the French
Just got a chain email from a Freeper. Normally I'd just ignore it but this guy is a sort of friend of mine and I think he can be redeemed, and it would be worth it for me to try. So, any help you can offer is greatly appreciated. The email has pictures of French cemeteries with totals of American (presumably) war dead buried at the various locations, with this text:

BEGIN QUOTE

66,033 Americans are Buried or Missing in France.
Many thousands more died fighting for France
but are buried and honored here in the US.

Thanks France

(then it has pictures of the towers burning, some celebrating in the arab street, and a really treacly picture of Bush with his head lowered an eyes closed as if in pain or prayer, superposed on the firemen raising the flag)

For the first time, AMERICA was seeking help from France . . but France has turned her back!!!
Please remember these Dead Americans when you go shopping, as the French seem to have forgotten them.

France has every right to disagree with America, but France has moved from simple dissent to active hostility toward America. France President Chirac warned East European nations that if they sided with the US, France would oppose their membership in the European Union. This very week, William Safire reported in the New York Times that France has been secretly helping to arm Iraq and has been helping Irag build long range missiles. These same missiles may NOW possibly be used against our own US soldiers. Just as France has exercised its right to disagree, all Americans can exercise their right to boycott and help countries that do not stand with us. French Products and Companies to Boycott:

Air France
Air Liquide
Airbus (airplanes in commericial use)
Alcatel
Allegra (allergy medication)
Aqualung - including: Spirotechnique, Technisub, US Divers and SeaQuest
AXA Advisors
Bank of the West (owned by BNP Paribas)
Beneteau (boats)
B! F Goodrich (owned by Michelin)
BIC (razors, pens and lighters)
Biotherm (cosmetics
Black Bush
Bollinger (champagne)
Car &Driver Magazine
Cartier
Chanel
Chivas Regal (scotch)
Christian Dior
Club Med (vacations)
Culligan (owned by Vivendi)
Dannon (yogurt and dairy foods)
DKNY
Dom Perigonon (champagne)
Durand Crystal
Elle Magazine
Essilor Optical Products
Evian
Fina (petroleum products) and Fina Oil (billions invested in Iraqi oil fields)
First Hawaiian Bank
George Magazine
Givenchy
Glenlivet (scotch)
Hennessy (liquor products)
Houghton Mifflin (books)
Jacobs Creek (owned by Pernod Ricard since 1989)
Jameson (whiskey)
Jerry Springer (talk show)
Krups (coffee and cappuccino makers)
Lancome - Le Creuset (cookware)
L'Oreal (health and beauty products)
Louis Vuitton
Marie Claire
Martel Cognac
Maybelline
Mephisto (shoes &clothes)
Michelin (tires &auto parts)
Mikasa (crystal and glass! )
Moet (champagne)
Motel 6
Motown Records
MP3.com
Mumms (champagne)
Nissan (cars - majority owned by Renault )
Nivea
Normany Butter
Parents Magazine
Peugeot (automobiles)
Pierre Cardin
Playstation Magazine
ProScan (owned by Thomson Electronics - France)
Publicis Group (including Saatchi &Saatachi Advertising)
RCA (television &electronics - owned by Thomson Electronics - France)
Red Magazine
Red Roof Inns (owned by Accor group in France)
Renault (automobiles)
Roquefort cheese (all Roquefort cheese is made in France)
Rowenta (toasters, irons, coffe makers )
Royal Canadian
Salomon (skis)
Sierra Software &Computer Games
Smart &Final
Sofitel (hotels, owned by Accor group)
Sparkletts (water, owned by Danone)
Spencer Gifts.
Sundance Channel
Taylor Made (gold clubs &equipment)
Technicolor
T-Fal (kitchenware
Total Gas Stations
UbiSoft (computer games)
Uniroyal (tires)
Universal Studios (music, movies and amusement parks - owned by Vivendi)
US Filter
Veritas Group
Veuve Clicquot Champagne
Vittel
Vivendi
Wild Turkey (bourbon)
Woman's Day Magazine
Yoplait (The French company Sodiaal owns a 50% stake)
Yves Saint Laurent
Zodia Inflatable Boats

Lastly, a French compay was awarded a $700 million plus contract to operate the 55 mess halls of our US Marine facilities. Call your congressman and ask that this be rescinded regardless of the cost. This is an absolute insult to our Marines.

This boycott has been promoted by NewsMax's and has been frequently mentioned by Bill O'Reilly on the O'Reilly Factor.

If you will send this to at least 10 friends and relative to also forward, it is possible to reach 100 million people in a very short time. GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

IN GOD WE TRUST


END QUOTE

Obviously this is a typical freeper pile of horseshite. Looking at it again, this guy may not be worth saving. But as a project against future French-bashing, I would really appreciate it if folks could help me find well-documented links concerning any of the following:

A. French aid to the US during our history (obviously this includes the revolution, the Louisiana purchase, the Statue of Liberty, but specific instances where they saved our bacon would be great)

B. WWII - links concerning why Hitler was able to roll the French during WWII, like lack of tanks to hold the Marginot line, a whole generation wiped out by WWI, etc.

C. Post WWII - links concerning the very loving tributes that the French pay to the US war dead every year on the anniversay of D-Day, etc.

D. 9/11 -
1. links detailing the outpouring from France of unity and solidarity with the US after the attacks - pictures of American embassy's in France would be especially good
2. links detailing how many French nationals were killed in the 9/11 attacks

E. Afghanistan - links showing France's involvement and posture towards our invasion and occupation of Afghanistan

F. Iraq - links showing that the French opposed the invasion of Iraq because it would be a giant F-up, which has turned out to be absolutely prophetic.

G. Terrorism in general - links detailing DeGaulle having to get out of Algeria because of terrorist attacks in France, how the French have dealt with terrorism for a long time.

H. The allegation of Safire (a known liar) that France had helped Iraq build long range missiles. This sounds like a complete fantasy. Have any "long range missiles" turned up in Iraq yet? With French fingerprints?

I. The list of companies. If any of them are not French owned, etc. (I'm surprised French's mustard isn't on the list! Morans)

J. The "$700 million" contract for the Marines. Can anyone find out what the hell this is supposed to refer to?

K. O'Reilly's boycott. Links that show the delusional O'Reilly's boycott to have not really scratched France's economy at all.

Anyway, that's it. Thanks for your help.
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noonwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
1. The french financed and helped fight the American Revolution
Yeah, it was mostly because they hated the british, but the USA might not be without their assistance. And some of the french were particularly heroic-Lafayette, for example. Why do you think so much here is named after him?
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mark414 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
2. how about
Edited on Fri Aug-06-04 11:01 AM by mark414
the fact that we wouldn't be a country if it wasn't for the help of the french?

i think it was maureen dowd who wrote a great article on the French back when this whole thing first erupted...something along the lines of how so many of their men were killed in the first world war thanks to this new "machine gun" that was being used, they pretty much had no one left come time for the second world war, which was why they didn't put up much of a fight against hitler. don't have the link unfortunately...

EDIT: Vivendi-Universal controls a substantial, substantial portion of the world music market...so, if you never want to buy music or basically any sort of entertainment media again, then let's boycott them! Maybe we should boycott all movies that have Vivendi/RCA/Motown artist's songs in them so they can't get the royalties! blah, what idiots.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. You're right...
http://europeanhistory.about.com/library/weekly/blww1castable.htm

The French sufferred 75% casualties during WW1 (killed and wounded).

France had no stomach to fight another war, after having lost almost an entire generation 20 years earlier.

Sid
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flamingyouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
3. "this guy may not be worth saving" - correct
I got this from a vendor at work last year and told him to never fucking contact me again, and that he could never expect another penny of my business ever again.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
4. The French don't need your redemption.
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stopbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Agreed. Another strawman. Tell him to look in the mirror. n/t
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. Exactly. My first thought was, "Redeemed? From what?"
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
5. Quote: "For the first time, AMERICA was seeking help from France"
I seem to recall a certain period between 1776 and, oh, 1861, when we called on France several times, and they always came through -- whether France was constituted under la Ancien Regime or la Republique.

Then there's that statue of a woman in flowing robes (a dirty Hippie, no doubt) in New York harbor, paid for by millions of French schoolchildren.

But why confuse Barstool Patriots when they have already made their smutty little minds up already?

--bkl
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
7. there's not a chance in hell I'll give up Wild Turkey
freedom fries my ass

The guy is not worth saving. He is a xenophobe and a bigot. As soon as he's done hating the French, he's going to go to work on hating the queers, hating the atheists, hating the democraps, hating the liberals and environmentalists, etc.

Some people who have no identity of their own are defined by the things they hate. He feels like a crusader, and he probably believes all of this horseshit. He feels heroic in his own mind because he's doing something about all the oppression he believes he suffers, and he needs a bogey man to pin the blame on rather than examining our own policies and the facts.

France is a sovereign nation, and whatever its decisions are we must respect them instead of turning around and engaging in retribution if they don't agree with us. They have the right to disagree. France has the same responsibilities to its citizens that America has to ours, and in a democracy, which France is, if the people of France don't want an unjustified war, then they vote not to go.

It is also typical of that group of bigoted assholes that if you don't agree with them, they will try to punish you for it, and that's just childish. Emails like that are one of the reasons the rest of the world despises us -- they don't hate us because we're beautiful, that's for sure.

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ProfessorPlum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Thanks
I'm well aware of the psychology of the original letter writer and the person who forwarded it on to me.

Got any appropriate links?
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #8
20. good activity - I couldn't find links
Dismayingly I searched for "talking" and "speaking" points and "France" to see if there was some boilerplate response out there already to develop upon and there are LOTS of links contra France. That's really quite a statement -- tyranny is always much better organized than freedom.

I don't know that the originator of your email can be saved. You'll just confuse him with facts and make him angry that you disagree. Complex arguments with lots of nuance just make them think you're exercising thought control, whatever that is.

Sorry to be flip, but the real criminals are O'Reilly stoking the fires of the masses and the rest of us who are too apathetic to speak out in direct support of France. Why doesn't a prime-time news program address this rationally? Can you imagine if he was talking the same smack about Israel or even about Canada? They don't hate us for our freedoms. We hate them for exercising theirs.

This America is arrogant and corrupt, and although we claim to hate the idea of world government (they do), we act like it should be a world dictatorship. When somebody disagrees with us in the United Nations, we cancel their financial assistance programs and call in their financial debts in retribution. When Turkey pulls out of Iraq 30 days ahead of schedule, Colin Powell announces that "it wasn't helpful" and they could expect no help from us in return. A not-so-veiled promise that we would punish them economically. It makes me crazy. This is a divided nation, and the people on the other side of the divide have deep and incurable character flaws.

I have argued the France topic at great length with former conservative friends and it was quite illuminating how rigidly they adhere to those preconceptions -- to the point of the most disappointing behavior I have ever seen in supposedly rational adults. We love to hate the icons that we hate.
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
10. On B
On item B regarding WW2, you can tell him that Germany was so powerful because Prescott Bush & Company armed Hitler throughout the 30s (violating the Treaty of Versailles) and into late 1942. Throw in the date that Germany declared war on the US, which I believe was around Dec 10 or 11, 1941.



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ProfessorPlum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. LOL
Good one.
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
13. Was this e-mail lost in the ether for the last year?
Why would he want to blame the French for warning us not to invade IraqNam. In fact, IraqNam is going to be the end of their idol George Bush's political career.

BTW, this was NOT the first time France helped us. Without France, we would have lost the American Revolutionary War. They gave us money, ships and troops.

I didn't think ANYONE was bashing France anymore. It's too painfully obvious that THEY WERE RIGHT
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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. so? these people live in a fantasy bubble
they assert FOXAMRadioCNN and say that WMDs were found, Gore tried to steal Fla., the war is justified, Bush got more votes if you exclude Puerto Rico, Samoa, and Guam, missile defense works, the sun is causing global warming, etc., etc. Pro-tort-deform brigades here and elsewhere scream whenever a women sues because a restaurant served food that converted her tongue into a steaming, cracked, charred mass because "frivolous lawsuits by stupid people like those gives ammunition to them" when they know perfectly well the Right just makes(*#$#@ up. Heck, Dean is always 100% right on the money and people insist he lost because he deserved to.
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bunk76 Donating Member (867 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
14. We all know whos to blame......
for the last four years,the sheep just will not face that reality.The
O'Liellys of the world find it easier to blame others when they know in their hearts this man is a miserable failure.The right can rejoice
in the fact that Crawford will have a new dogcatcher in the near future,lets hope he doesn't screw that job up as bad as he has his old one.
:evilgrin:





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floridaguy Donating Member (751 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
15. This is the result of Cowboy Diplomacy and more hatemongering!
First of all, the historical references in other posts are good and true.

Let's see, if the French weren't as gullible as most of America and Tony Blair, then they should be punished. Hmmmm, bad logic. Wait, we all know Bush lied, so by not believing the lies, the French are the bad guys. Yeah, that's it. As far as the weapons go, what a bunch of horseshit. We've supplied more weapons to Iraq than any country in the history of the world, and don't forget all the weapons we sent to Afgahnistan to fight the terrible communists.

Do we really want to be hated by the rest of the world? I, for one, don't, and this approach is certainly not going to make us safer.

This whole thing wouldn't have anything to do with the Kerry and France connection? Wait, Kerry speaks French. He must be a French-lover. France bad/Kerry bad. That's it. Any kindergarten student can repeat that. That will be easy for the Repukes to repeat.

God save us all. A large portion of this country is out of it's fucking mind, and another big chunk is sleepwalking.

America, wake the fuck up! :grr:
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stopbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
16. The following phrase always works for me:
voici un livre d'histoire... maintenant, le poussent vers le haut de votre derrière

("Here's a history book...now, shove it up your ass")
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
17. An interesting piece that may spark some further thoughts...
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Screaming Lord Byron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
19. Why do they focus their obsessive hatred on France?
Why not Germany, or hell, why not Canada? Hell, we're (vaguely) left-wing, and sorta French.
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #19
41. You're responsible for Bryan Adams, too...
And Terrance and Philip. Don't forget Terrance and Philip.
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KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
21. Immediately after 911, Le Monde ran a headline proclaiming
"Today we are all Americans". They helped with Afghanistan -- where OBL really was. They tried to talk us out of invading Iraq and they were right.

Other posters have cited the complete lack of knowledge of recent and historic military alliances. People who either don't know or easily forget such things should not be trying to influence policy.

That email is ancient (in internet years). And they left out a couple of great French products -- Le Creuset for one.

Tell him to boycott french kissing.
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
22. Links, schminks...
every schoolchild learns that Ben Franklin went to Paris and got France as our key ally in the Revolution, and that they gave us the Statue of Liberty.

They also learn about Napolean, who may have liked cheese, but was certainly not a surrender monkey.

What is probably not made clear is that after Napolean, they wisely decided that conquering the world was not such a hot idea after all. Far better to concentrate on great food and sex and arguing philosophy in coffeshops.

Hating the French is great sport, that's what they're there for, but no one really takes it seriously. How many of these French hating spammers would give a limb for a free week in Paris?

(or a night with a French whore, which would really straighten them out)



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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
23. A good column on the matter: The French Got It Right This Time
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Molly's take:
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. An interesting site:
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. Hee hee. The Battered French Fry.
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ProfessorPlum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #23
28. Hilarious comments afterwards
Apparently the brain dead don't like having another opinion thrown at them. I wondered what was up when after making sense the whole article, the guy slams the French in the last one. Thanks for the link.
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ProfessorPlum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #23
30. Thank you very much for the links nt
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klook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
26. The French invented lingerie,
the aqualung, the automobile, the internal combusion engine, the rechargeable battery, the photovoltaic battery, the bicycle, photography, movies (OK, co-invented with Americans), braille, the gyroscope, the hot-air balloon, the dirigible, balance scales, the parachute, the pressure cooker, mayonnaise, Dijon mustard, margarine, French Onion soup, the bouillon cube, phosophorus matches, French kissing, the metric system of measurement, the use of alphabetical letters in mathematical equations, chlorine bleach, pasteurization, blood transfusion, the hypodermic needle, the pencil, the fountain pen, plate glass, the steamship, the telegraph network, the fax, color TV, the microprocessor-based computer, the public interactive computer network (the Minitel, forerunner to the Internet), the water turbine, reinforced concrete, smokeless gunpowder, the sewing machine, the mechanical calculator, canned food, the stethoscope, the thermostat, the altimeter, rayon, topology, the gas turbine, rabies and typhus vaccines, the neon light, the fluorescent lamp, sonar for submarine detection, the "morning-after pill" RU486, the Etch-a-Sketch, and Velcro.

Don't we owe them something for all that?

Sources:
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/inventors/france.shtml
http://www.fl-institut.com/french_inventions.htm
http://www.buyfrenchnow.com/issue.html
http://www.vency.com/inventions.html
http://frenchminded.tripod.com/inventions/inventions.htm
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ProfessorPlum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. Also the leotard (named after M. leotard, of course)
and the guillotine was named after a French doctor. (as was nicotine). Thanks for the links.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
31. Freedom Fries and Raw Nerves
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. Mo' on Half-baked "Freedom" Fries
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bex Donating Member (33 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
33. The French: anti-Semitic traitors?
Early in 1781 St. Eustatius fell to the British. The British burnt every home, paying particular venomous attention to the Jews of St. Eustatius. The British burnt their homes and the synagogue, Honen Dalim, "She Who is Charitable to the Poor" – built 1739. Jewish property was confiscated and the men imprisoned with particular cruelty. Rodney spent months directing half his fleet to convey the stolen treasure back to England.

While Rodney was engaged in St. Eustatius, Lord Cornwallis and his army of British regulars retreated to the port of Yorktown, Virginia. He needed to await critical reprovisioning and fresh reinforcements being brought by the British fleet. The British fleet, with Cornwallis's reinforcements, was intercepted at sea by the French fleet under Admiral DeGrasse and soundly defeated. Degrasse took up positions at the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay blockading Yorktown from the Sea.

-----

the Constitution of 1791 extended full citizenship to Jews. The first in Europe to do so and extended throughout Europe by Napoleon.

----------

Leon Blum, who began as a literary critic, became active in politics as a result of the Dreyfuss Affair. In 1919, he was elected to the French Chamber of Deputies. In 1925, he became the head of the Socialist Party and, in May 1936, he became France's first socialist Prime Minister since 1870.
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aint_no_life_nowhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-07-04 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #33
43. France was one of the earliest supporters of the State of Israel
In the 1950s France was probably Israel's closest ally in the world, more so even than the U.S. France quickly recognized the state of Israel and for many years backed Israel at the United Nations. French arm shipments, included fighter jets, missiles, and helicopters formed the backbone of Israel's army in the nineteen-fifties and early sixties. In the 1967 war it was French Mirage fighters that had guaranteed Israeli air superiority, while on the ground French small arms equipped the IDF soldiers. In fact, the Dassault Company that manufactures the Mirage Jet consistently sold them to Israel at cost. But it was later when DeGaulle came to power that France withdrew support for Israel in favor of Arab states and other third-work nonaligned states as part of DeGaulle's policy for forging an independent course for France between the two superpowers of the US and the USSR.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
34. A few more thoughts...
I remember reading the history of French Toast last year. It's actually a recipe created by a Mr. French, who owned a diner in upstate New York, so it was quite hilarious to see some idiots try to change the name. I also remember folks noting that French Fries originated in Belgium. Anyway, blah blah blah. But, the history of US prejudice also came up, as during WW I, we began calling Sauerkraut "Liberty Cabbage," which was the milder part of the anti-German wave that swept the nation, causing many families to change their names in order to obtain work, including mine. And, of course, this was mild compared to what followed with the Japanese internment camps in WW II, though I will note that German prejudice remained during that time, as well. Despite coming from a family that had lived in the US for nearly 100 years, all of my uncles who fought in WW II (six in total) were sent to the Pacific, making it very clear that they were not trusted on the European front.

Anyway, best of luck.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Oh, and anyone who's traveled through France knows...
Edited on Fri Aug-06-04 12:18 PM by HuckleB
that there are plaques and monuments of honor and gratitude to the US and its soldiers for their service and sacrifice in the two WWs in every church and cathedral, every small town that one travels through. There is little doubt about the gratitude the French feel for what we did.

As far as the cemeteries go, one of the ongoing complaints (aimed at the US government) of veterans who have traveled to Normandy is how incredibly well cared for the cemeteries are there compared to the military cemeteries in the US. They see the French taking better care of the memory of our soldiers than we do, and get mighty po'd at the US for failing to match the French.
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ProfessorPlum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. My mom's family changed its name at that time as well
what a wonderful time it must have been.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Indeed.
And how bad would the beer in the states be if it weren't for them German immigrants? Oh, I shudder to think of it.

:)
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trof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
35. They make great toast.
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ProfessorPlum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. salad dressing, too
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klook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
40. "Research skills of your average 12 year old"
See http://hoaxinfo.com/frenchboycott.htm -
"As a general rule, a boycott works best when it targets a very specific business, or type of business. The larger the business the harder it is to boycott successfully. Boycotting a whole country is extremely difficult to do at the grassroots level. A boycott needs to be simple, for example, "DON'T EAT GRAPES". But what is one to do when the list is extremely long and includes products across the whole spectrum of consumer goods? We could carry a list like the one below.

But the chain letter list below is filled with question marks and errors. We could end up putting Americans in the unemployment line instead of hurting France. First, some of the companies below are not even French companies, for instance DKNY which stands for Donna Karan New York was founded by a woman who grew up in Long Island and the store is based in New York City, or Playstation Magazine which is owned by Ziff Davis based in New York. Others listed in the chain letter below are based in Switzerland, Sweden, or Germany. If this weren't complicated enough there are other companies below which have French owners, but most of their employees are American. Further, there are companies on the list like Evian which is clearly French, but whose product is distributed by Coke, an American company. If they stopped distributing this product it might cost some Americans their job.

Certainly, you don't want to base your decisions on a chain letter whose author may have the research skills of your average 12 year old."
<snip>
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aint_no_life_nowhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
42. Here Are Just A Few Notes About Historical Franco-American Cooperation
I note that Jacques Chirac was the first foreign leader to visit the devastation in New York right after September 11, arriving even before Tony Blair. I also note that the Bush Administration has never invited Chirac to his Texas Ranch, although he has invited the heads of all the other permanent members of the UN Security Council. This may not at first appear to be significant, but I think that Bush means it as a major slap at France and an attempt to isolate them from the very start of his Presidency.

***************************************
Jacques Chirac was the first foreign leader to visit the site of the destroyed Twin Towers:

"French President Jacques Chirac has become the first foreign leader to survey New York's leader to survey New York's devastated World Trade Center"

"...I want to tell President Bush, who is my friend, that we bring the total solidarity of France and the French people, it is a solidarity of the heart..." "...We are completely determined to fight by your side this new type of evil, of absolute evil, which is terrorism, and France is prepared and available to discuss all means to fight and eradicate this evil..."
http://edition.cnn.com/2001/US/09/19/ret.bush.france/

****************************************
French Military Contribution to the Operation "Enduring Freedom" in Afghanistan, May 17, 2002
http://www.info-france-usa.org/news/statmnts/2002/sfia/fight1.asp

#French airspace, air bases, and harbors opened to US military aircraft and warships

#Liaison team at the US Central Command (Tampa, FL) since October 9, 2001
#WARSHIPS (1 Frigate, 1 Oiler) in the Arabian Sea for Leadership Interception Operations
#Sharing of Military intelligence
#Intelligence gathering airbone assets at an early phase of the operations (1 Transall C160 G ; 1 Transall C 160 Tanker)
#Strategic reconnaissance
(2 Mirage IV P-Recce from October 2001 to mid-February 2002)
#Air Refueling Aircraft (2 C135 FR Tankers) for French and U.S. Navy Aircraft. From December to April
#Maritime Surveillance Aircrafts (2 MPA Atlantique 2, based in Djibouti, to monitor Aden Gulf)
#Maritime intelligence
(1 LPD, 1 Frigate, 1 Corvette, 1 Support Ship, 1 Support Ship Jules Vernes). From the beginning of May
#Mine sweeping - Maritime survey
(2 Minehunters - 1 Support Ship FS Loire). From December to April

*"CHARLES DE GAULLE" aircraft carrier - 28 aircrafts
TASK GROUP :
- 1 Guided Missile Destroyer
(3500 men)

Deployed from 18th of December to beginning of May in the Arabian Sea. On high readiness status
within two days of operational flight above Afghanistan since then.
*1 Oiler - 2 Frigates - 1 Nuclear Attack submarine (800 men)

Deployed at Manas Air Force Base in Kirghisistan:

450 men to support the operations of the following air assets:

*6 Mirage 2000D (Precision Strike Aircraft)
* 2 C135 FR (Tankers)

Airlift Transit Center of Douchanbe in Tadjikistan:

Presence of air assets including C130 Hercules and C160 Transall seployed at Douchanbe to provide airlift support of the French Components of Enduring Freedom and ISAF (100 men).
Embassy of France in the US - May 31, 2002

***************************************

French soldiers died alongside US soldiers in the terrorist bombings in Lebanon in 1983:

On October 23, 1983, 56 French soldiers lost their lives alongside 241 US Marines in Lebannon when terrorists bombed their barracks. The US media seems to always forget the deaths of the French:
http://www.veteranen.info/~cedarsouthlebanon/mnf/multinational_force.eng.htm

"...On October 23, just after dawn 241 Marines died when a truck loaded with TNT blew up a marine barracks at the International Airport. At almost the same time, another truck blew up the French barracks a few kilometres away, killing 56 French troops..."

****************************************

U.S. Ignored Warnings from the French Intelligence a few days before 911, as documented by FBI Agent Coleen Rowley. French Intelligence as well as a French Special Terrorist Judge warned the US about Moussaoui before 911 and they had been trying to extradict him from Britain for years.
http://propagandamatrix.com/US_Ignored_Warnings_From_French.htm

********************************************

French troops saved US citizens in the Ivory Coast in September, 2002:
http://allafrica.com/stories/200209250715.html

"...French troops have rescued 160 mainly American children and staff trapped at an international school in Bouake, the central Ivorian city which has been under control of mutinous soliders for almost a week..."

***********************************************

French military contributions to the allied coalition in Desert Storm in 1991

Air Power: http://216.239.57.104/searchq=cache:7z0syujGyEkJ:www.danshistory.com/operations.shtml+france+military+contribution+desert+storm&hl=en

Over 100 aircraft committed including Jaguar, Mirage 2000 C, 2000 D, F-1, Mir-WP, JAG-A, E3-F, C-135F, UAV, CL-289, UAV CR, PUMA SA-330, HORIZON C160, aircraft based on aircraft carrier FS Foch.

French aircraft flew 2,414 sorties in Desert Storm.

French total military contribution of 11,000 troops to Desert Storm, including the 2nd Foreign Legion Parachute Regiment
http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:QtzXawDPzlAJ:news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/861164.stm+french+troops+desert+storm&hl=en

**************************************************

The French Battalion in the Korean War won 3 Distinguished Presidential Unit Citations for bravery and fought alongside US troops. They won the admiration of General Ridgeway.
http://www.info-france-usa.org/atoz/koreawar.asp

The French Battalion took part in some of the bloodiest battles of the Korean War including Twin Tunnels and Heartbreak Ridge and saved a US division by making a stand and fighting the Chinese hand-to-hand, according to one eyewitness account of a US soldier:

"....Retreating, the Chinese reorganized and hit the French who were defending Hill 453. Lt. Col. Ralph Monclar, a decorated and much-wounded veteran of both world wars, inspired his men. Freeman later recalled: "Wave after wave of fanatical Chinese continued to surge on during the next three hours in an attempt to seize the dominating ground. The gallant French 1st Company was finally engaged in hand-to-hand fighting and suffered heavy casualties. With their position becoming almost untenable, the desperate French counter-attacked with the bayonet...."

"...The Chinese, with victory almost in their grasp-a victory which had they attained would have jeopardized our entire position-pulled back......"

**************************************
During World War II, the Free French Army fought alongside the US Army throughout the desert campaign, in Italy, in Normandy and even at the Battle of the Bulge. When US troops were besieged in the terrible bloodbath at Anzio on the beach, the Gustav line was finally broken and the campaign won thanks to the Free French Army that took the heights of the Belvedere:

http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:i3eOATaS-YcJ:home.wanadoo.nl/cclinks/abtf/fierce~1.html+french+break+gustav+line+anzio&hl=en
"...When the Allies renew the offensive on May 11, four corps are thrown forward - the U.S. II, the Polish II, the British XIII, and the French Expeditionary Force. The 12 attacking divisions face only 6 German divisions. While there is general progress all along the Gustav Line, it is the French who finally crack the line for good. On May 14, they break into the Ausente Valley and race toward the next German line; they hope to crack this line before the Germans can settle into their defensive positions. By May 16, only the Poles face determined resistance at Cassino; everywhere else the Germans are falling back to their next line of defense. The Poles finally capture the ruins of the monastery at Cassino on May 18..."

One of the great air aces of World War II was the Free French pilot Pierre Closterman, who had 33 confirmed kills and 23 probables, one of the very highest totals for any allied pilot in the European theater of war:
http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:fBJ7MSpR6iwJ:users.senet.com.au/~wingman/aces.html+pierre+closterman+ace+&hl=en

One of the great stories of World War II is that of the Free French pilots who volunteered to form squadrons of fighters within the Russian Army on the Eastern Front. Known as the "Normandie-Niemen", they racked up 236 kills of German planes with several more "probables". Their leader was Marcel Albert, who was given Russia's highest military honor, "Hero Of The Soviet Union", which is the Russian equivalent of the Congressional Medal Of Honor.
http://www.frenkenstein.com/ww2/Normandy-Niemen/Normandie-Niemen.htm

Another famous incident in World War II involving the French was the battle of Gazala in North Africa, particularly that part of the battle known as the siege of Bir Hakeim. The Germans under Rommel fought a hard fight against the allies, including a major tank battle. The British were virtually routed. But the southern part of their defenses were held by two battalions of French Foreign Legion, one Regiment of Regular French Marines, and a collection of various French colonial troops. For 10 days, although heavily outnumbered by the Germans, they held off attack after attack and allowed the allies to escape to safety. It made the later victory at El Alamein possible. It is one of the proudest moments in the history of the French Foreign Legion, although other French units participated as well.
http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:iU_KESFuzS4J:www.ku.edu/carrie/specoll/AFS/4/d/4d4a1.html+bir+hakim+legion&hl=en

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