How many Clark supporters are former Dean supporters?

[MiltonLeBerle]

I was originally leaning towards Dean- but the more I saw of him(almost wholly in the form of interviews, not speechifyin') the less enamoured I've become- I don't think that he does interviews very well at all, and in the reality of the world we've created for ourselves, that will hurt him at the ballot box.
With Clark, I've only seen interviews, at an ever-increasing pace it seems lately, and the General handles them very well; although I do agree that the vaugeness is getting old- but he has been getting a lot of attention- maybe moreso than the campaign had planned on having at this point.
Anyway, I don't think there's any comparison as to their respective abilities to control the camera- Wesely Clark is much better.
But as Janeane just agreed,(although she got it backwards) Clark/Dean would be a great ticket.

[RememberJohn]

1. I really don't think there are many who can say it truthfully....

I think most of the Clark critics are the Dean supporters here.

[CMT]

10. I have found it the other way around

many of the anti-Dean threads are from Clark Supporters. But it does go both ways.

[sham]

15. I don't know about that...

Most of the comments I've seen from Dean supporters say that they would LOVE to have Clark on the ticket also. Granted, I have seem some Deanies bashing Clarkies, but I have also seen PLENTY of Clarkies bashing Deanies. I'm not even a Dean supporter and I have a few on ignore because they've gotten so nasty.

[eleny]

45. I am

I sent Dean financial support and think he's a good man. But I've been following Clark's appearances and reading as much as I can about him for a long time. I didn't think he was going to run until recently. Now, his tone and words make him appear on the verge of declaring his candidacy. I believe that he's the one who can put Bush out of office.

As time goes on, I may not agree with all Clark's positions. I didn't think Clinton's positons were all very prudent <snort>, yet I voted for him twice. But Clark is pro choice, wants to repeal some or all of the Bush tax cuts, has positive positions on the environment and public education.

He also has a spot-on position on the Iraq war. If he had been president, I believe we'd still be choking Saddham with inspections that, in my opinion, were working. I like that he says Bush lied to get us into war. And that Saddham was never in partnership with Osama, nor did he have anything to do with 9/11. Taking this anti-Iraq war stand got my attention.

I see him as credible, articulate, sincere and with a head for strategy. Not declaring yet has been priceless. The guy is no loose canon. Congress will like conducting the people's business with a man of his caliber.

[West Coast Democrat]

2. How About Clark-Gephardt?

Not very liberal, but probably very electable.

[MiltonLeBerle]

4. There is name recognition.

But there's something about Gebhardt's speaking style that just doesn't sell me, and can be kind of off-putting- but maybe it's just me.

[West Coast Democrat]

8. True....

But Gephardt would be strong in the Midwest.

[RamboLiberal]

3. I support both

And would love to see them on a ticket together. If Clark enters the race then let the best man win.

And I hope in the process that one of the other Dems don't sneak in cause they may hurt the others chances.

My Dems of choice in order are:

Dean and/or Clark
Kerry
Edwards
Anyone but Lieberman

[MiltonLeBerle]

6. I think that Edwards would be a great Veep choice-

For Clark, Dean, or kerry.(a kerry/Edwards ticket would be waay to DLC for my comfort zone)

at this point, I'd definitely support a Clark/Dean ticket- hopefully in that order. I think that Clark projects a more likable/electable image between the two, but that's just my opinion.

[Stuckinthebush]

5. I like them both

I asked an ex-military guy who is an independent what he thought of Clark, he said he doesn't know much about him, but he is not sure generals make good presidents.

He may have a point - however, what I took from that statement is that maybe people are a little hesitant to vote for a true General for president. Perhaps there is something about being a general that makes him too close to the military in the public mind.

Then again, there was Washington....he did OK.

[mandyky]

7. I still am a Deaniac

but a Dean Clark ticket in whatever order would be awesome. Plus I hear they get along with each other.

[RobertFrancisK]

9. True for me

But I still like Dean a lot. I think a Clark/Dean ticket would be incredible. I think Clark is the perfect man for the job though and has my full backing.
I think Dean would be better as the VP on that ticket because he's more of an attack dog than Clark, which is great for the democrats but not too appealling to most Americans.

[JNelson6563]

20. I feel much the same

But I still like Dean a lot. I think a Clark/Dean ticket would be incredible.

I think you're right!! Unbeatable!

I think Clark is the perfect man for the job though and has my full backing.

I don't have any problems with Clark actually but I haven't seen anything that would yet make me drop my support for Dean favor him. I see both as very electable.

I think Dean would be better as the VP on that ticket because he's more of an attack dog than Clark,

Yep, the VP is usually more of the attack dog and Dean could certainly handle that, he speaks with great passion! Dean being more experienced in politics makes him the better choice for this role.

which is great for the democrats but not too appealling to most Americans.

Seems to me more and more Americans are getting angry. True, we don't want to go to extremes like Gingrich and the other neo-con neanderthals but, it is certainly time to crank it up from the hand-wringing, meeley mouth "opposition" (like standing shoulder-to-shoulder with Presidnet Bush <gag>).

I've been a Deanie since the day Gore dropped out. I'm ok with Clark too.

Julie

[LouKYDem]

11. I still support Dean...

but I like Clark. I wish that Clark would declare though! If Dean does REALLY bad in early primaries, and Clark is one of the frontrunners, I will definitely vote for Clark. If ANY of the Democrats are president in 2004 (and I think one will win), I'll be happy, but particularly happy if it is Dean, Clark, Kerry, Graham, or (although his chances of making it among Republicans are somewhat low) Kucinich.

By the way, if you want a Clark/Dean ticket, that's fine, but if that's the case, I'd like to see Dean take over in 2012 with another vice-president! Maybe my dreams are a little lofty, but wouldn't it be nice if we could secure 2004-2020 for the Democrats???

Well I can dream, can't I??

[snyttri]

12. sort of

I was enthused about Dean when he first announced. Then I became concerned from his apologies and Meet the Press that he would be on the defensive in the general election.

Then I found out about Clark and he seemed like the best of the lot by far.

[poskonig]

13. Still with Dean here.

Dean works the media well, is awesome at organizing support, and is a superb fundraiser. Why throw away this for a guy who offers nothing but a cool title?

[chaska]

14. I was an early supporter of Dean.

Now with Clark.

[11cents]

16. I was an early Deanie, sort of

I gave him a contribution and so still receive copious emails from my bestest friend Joe Trippi. I liked the *sound* of him, electorally speaking, and of course I loved the fact that he was speaking out when the other candidates were floundering. But although I found him impressive in some environments (e.g., townhall meetings) in others he seemed distinctly not a "president-sized" candidate. I was also frankly turned off by the rather baffling cult of personality that was developing among some of his supporters. If he gets the nom, of course, I'll work for him and will be delighted to be proved wrong.

My feeling, as I've said elsewhere, is that while Clark and Dean may deliver much the same message, it has far more power and cross-partisan appeal when Clark delivers it. Lately, for example, he's been talking about the importance of maintaining the legitimacy of political opposition and about Republican attempts to denigrate the very idea of there being another party. Were Dean to say things like this he'd be just a Democratic pol defending the Democratic Party. When Clark does it he's a warrior-statesman-intellectual defending the ideals of America. Not entirely fair, not entirely rational, but winning elections is about dealing intelligently with realities on the ground, not denying them.

[Upfront]

17. Clark Is A Rethug

They are trying to split the democratic party. Dean has got them worried. Anyone on this forum should know which party they support. Why dosn't Clark? Think people, dosn't this give you pause? They couldn't shove Libberman down our throat so now they are sliding in Clark. I like Dean, but I support any person who says upfront, and no bull, I am a democrat!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. Why Must You Slander A Great Man

Where's the proof Wes Clark is a Rethug?

Name one Rethugican position he holds.

[Upfront]

29. Based On

Gee, what party am I? That is crap and you know it if you are a democrat. Again, Dean knows which party he is in! That means something to me.

[IranianDemocrat]

21. For the mentally challenged:

Clark is against the patriot act, pro-choice, pro affirmative action, against the iraq war, against the Bush tax cut, pro-environment, pro-gun control etc.

Who do you expect Karl Marxx?

http://www.draftclark2004.com/issues.asp

[Upfront]

31. Guts Lacking?

What party do I belong to? Something smells like a repub to me. Think folks.

[RobertFrancisK]

23. huh?

What are you talking about? Trying to appeal to the masses is by no means a sin, it's necissary in order to win. SO by waiting a while to declare and saying that he gets along with some republicans, he will seem "above the partisan" frey to swing voters, despite how liberal he may be. That's a lesson from chapter 1 of CampaigningforPresident 101: try and appeal to everyone.

[11cents]

28. Exactly

In any case, most American voters are not as partisan as DUers are.

I've been in left-liberal politics since I've been paying attention to politics at all, and I've had it up to here with tactics based on the way activists think the world should be instead of the way it is. I've had it up to here with ludicrous, self-indulgent litmus tests -- "I was a supporter of Candidate X until he said X+ instead of X++, and now I know he's a RETHUG STOOGE," etc. etc. And I've had it up to here with the left's "will to lose" -- this ultimate preference for being powerless because the powerless can maintain their moral purity and moral certainty, whereas involvement in power always brings on doubts, compromise, and messiness. The right doesn't care about that. It cares about power, and so should we.

[poskonig]

33. The Daschle strategy doesn't work.

Keep fuzzing things up and we will see 2002 all over again.

[Upfront]

32. Ya, That Is

what won our great victory in 2002. I want a democrat who knows he is one.

[poskonig]

26. I can easily see why Clark gives that impression,

but he is a wee bit shy about his political orientation, which is Democratic.

[Upfront]

39. Lets Say It.

Is Clark ashamed to be a democrat? He is not dumb, that we agree on, then why?

[DoveTurnedHawk]

40. Thanks for Outing Yourself

Another for the ol' Ignore list.

DTH

[IranianDemocrat]

18. If Clark doesn't run I'll vote for Dean.

.

[ima_sinnic]

22. um, no thanks, I'll stay with Dean

at least I know where his loyalties are and he's not playing any cute little head-games about whether he'll run and with which party. While Clark's been waffling and being noncomittal, SOME people have been brave and stuck their necks out and paved the way for him. Noncomittalness is NOT a leadership quality! A lot of people "look good" on talk shows; that doesn't mean they should be president. Dean is consistently first, not only with criticisms of Bush but also with innovative ideas for really bringing the people together and for dealing with some of the issues. I resent Clark for letting Dean and the others mobilize the people and make it safe for him to run. He's never held a public office. He has dubious ties to Acxiom Corp. and appears to actually have twisted his political influence to favor that company, which is profitable for him. I want someone with no ties to corporate interests or to scurrilous BFEE enterprises, which rules out Kerry, also.

[RobertFrancisK]

25. Would you vote for him in the general election?

Or would you go green or stay home? What if his VP was Dean? Just curious

[ima_sinnic]

30. I will support the Democratic nominee--of course

but I won't be happy about it

[robbedvoter]

24. I am one (ex-leaning Dean). It's the NRA thingy and the MTP

appearances that did it for me. Still think dean is a pretty good choice - should Clark not run, I'd be back. It's just that Clark it's so much better!

[Wendec]

27. Fence Sitter

I was a fence sitter for a good while, but landed in the Clark pasture chiefly because I very much want to see a Democratic president. I like Dean, but my own assessment is that Clark's somewhat more calm demeanor, while not appealing to the angry amongst us, is far more appealing to the 25 - 30% of the electorate who do not identify with either party. Since the name of the game is to win, that's enough for me. Having said that, I don't find very much to dislike in Clark's stated positions (and he HAS stated a position on a number of issues), so I'm very comfortable as a strong supporter.

[stickdog]

34. How many Clark supporters are current Dean supporters?

And how many will be still supporting Clark after 100 more threads like this?

[Clark Can WIN]

35. I srarted out pretty undecided between Dean and Kerry

And now I am firmly behind Clark. I would love to see Dean or Kerry in the VP spot but you know what? I'm not crazy. I will vote for whichever of the candidates the DNC chooses after the primaries, even though in the case of the other candidates it would amount only to a protest vote here in Nebraska. Clark is the only candidate I think can take swing states and moderate midwest states away from Bush. No it is not the only reason I like him, but it is a factor of great weight. I DO NOT WANT TO LOOK AT CHIMPY FOR FOUR MORE YEARS! And I don't want to find out hom many more people would have to die to satisfy his bloodthirsty pack of buddies. I want him out.

[IndianaGreen]

36. Wait until Clark announces, if he ever does!

According to this LBN thread, Clark may be enjoying the role of Hamlet more than he does being a serious candidate for President:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=78835#79025

[Clete]

37. Fickle you are, flitting from candidate to candidate.

Dean is a Democrat and always was. We don't know what Clark is yet. Clark, as military advisor on CNN for the past couple of years has had a chance to cut his teeth in front of the camera and frame his answers when asked questions. Dean perhaps isn't that comfortable as yet, but he certainly doesn't make an ass out of himself like Bush.

Also, I like a man that everyone likes both from his own party and the opposition. Dean, as Governmor of Vermont, has won the respect, admiration and yes liking of a majority of Vermonters from both sides of the aisle. That counts for something and whoever wins the White House next time, who isn't a Bush, is really going to have to work on uniting all Americans under his leadership after the huge divide and partisen hatefulness caused by the GOP under Bush.

[JaneQPublic]

38. Since they can't BOTH be president, my first choice is...

...Howard Dean.

After all the war and militarism of the Chimpy's administration, I just can't cotton to the idea of the next president being an ex-general.

But a DEAN/CLARK ticket would would make an unbeatable force against the Bushistas. Take a look at how well they complement each other:

-- Dean has executive experience, culminating in a balanced budget and a health care program in his state; Clark has military experience, culminating in service as NATO’s Supreme Allied Commander – Europe.

-- Dean has expertise in domestic issues; Clark has expertise in foreign affairs.

-- Dean brings gravitas as a doctor; Clark brings gravitas as general.

-- Dean, from Vermont, is a northerner; Clark, from Arkansas, is a southerner.

-- Dean has the “Big Mo,” as indicated by rising poll numbers, media attention, and fundraising success; Clark is respected by the public who knows him as an expert consultant on TV news.

But let’s not forget the important things Dean and Clark have in common:

-- Both Dean and Clark are exceptionally well educated and well spoken, yet extraordinarily direct and plainspoken.

-- Both have outstanding resumes in public service.

-- They have compatible views on such issues as the Iraq War, the Bush tax cut, abortion rights, and affirmative action, to name a few.

-- Neither of them is a member of Congress, which means their election to office will not deplete either the House or the Senate of a sorely needed Democratic member (a critical consideration, when several of the other candidates represent states where their replacement would be chosen by a Repug governor).

Yep, DEAN/CLARK: The Perfect Storm.

[Noordam]

42. Yep, DEAN/CLARK: The Perfect Storm.

I really like that :)

[kaitykaity]

49. Amen!! Dean/Clark is The Ticket of my Dreams!!

Thanks for illuminating it so well.

Dean is top dog for me because he's out there, he's the
pit bull, he's the angry one, he's the guy who stuck his
neck out and spoke the truth.

Clark is class, the cool one, the Friend of Bill who will
to bring the real money in to the campaign.

Dean/Clark would absolutely be the Perfect Storm. Bring
it on.

D

[Noordam]

41. Clark could be a good VP but to late for the top job

just IMHO.

[farmbo]

43. Whoa!... Clark's getting softballs; Dean getting "chin music"

That's the irrepressible reality of politics. Dean is the frontrunner. Everybody's gunning for him.
Clark's a fence- sitter with uncertain prospects, basking in the glow of an old soldier; who is not fading away, but rising to public service. Until he announces, no one will lay a glove on him. And he hasn't received the Rove treatment yet.

At this point, Clark and Dean are apples and oranges. Please wait until they are on equal footing before you make your decision.

[Clark Can WIN]

44. Crazy like a fox

Sometimes the smarter thing to do is hang out on the beach a while and let everyone else jump in first. That way you see which way the sharks are coming from, you know? Look at how much media coverage he is getting simply from being undeclared.

"Dean is the frontrunner. Everybody's gunning for him." Frontrunner yes, at this time. Everybody - - - no.

The media really seems to love Clark too, he's articulate and even, strong without becoming hostile.

I think it's a pretty safe assumption that Clark will run officially beginning this weekend or next.

I will happily vote for the selection of the DNC. I would love to see Dean, Kerry or Gep on the ticket behind Clark, in that order.

[Vis Numar]

46. dean clark dean

I was with Dean early on, then looked at Clark openingly for a few months, and am now back in with Dean heavily. Clark's great, but Dean is my first choice.

[REP]

47. Still a Deaner

Don't really know enough about Clark yet. I'm definitely not anti-Clark; just pro-Dean right now.

If anyone has any good Clark links, pass them on! I'd like to know more.

[pruner]

48. I'm hoping for a Dean/Clark ticket

but I'd be more than happy to settle for Clark/Dean ticket.