What part of 'thou shalt not kill' doesn't a christian nation understand?

[Q]

- We give lip service to the notion of being a 'democratic nation'...so it's just another small dishonest step to claim we're also a Christian Nation.

- I'd like to know: how can those who profess to believe in God and CHRISTianity condone or ignore the unnecessary deaths of thousands of (non-christian) human beings? We're aware that innocents who have nothing to do with terrorism have been and will continue be killed. Are they human beings? Or simply collateral damage? Are they so insignificant that we don't even have to count how many we kill?

- Help me out here. Are there exceptions to the commandment about killing? Seems to me it's pretty clear and concise: THOU SHALT NOT KILL.

[brokensymmetry]

1. If you go back to the original source documents -

it's really Thou Shalt Not Murder, which is very different than "Thou Shalt Not Kill."

Now, what exactly murder is...there's an intuitive view, and a legalistic view. Is collateral damage murder? Is imposing sanctions that result in deaths murder?

I guess we all have to explore our consciences on that one.

[sangh0]

2. What part of 'thou shalt not MURDER' does Q not understand?

.

[htuttle]

3. Seems to me there was this guy who came along and amended that a bit

Something about 'turning the other cheek', and something else about 'love thy neighbor', etc... What was his name again?

Ah, whatever. Nobody ever really listened to him anyhow.

:shrug:

[brokensymmetry]

5. Hmm...I'm trying to remember.

Let's see. Was it Rumsfeld? No, no. That's not right. Maybe it was Ashcroft? No, that's not it either.

You must be referring to Jesus, right? But I think he's pretty much out of the neo-con loop these days.

[Q3JR4]

4. Wait a second.

christian fundamentalists like to point to the King James version of the bible as the "true" interpretation. Every King James version I've cared to look at had the word "kill" and not "murder."

If my experience is anything, there doesn't seem to be much use in arguing original interpretation with fundamentalists.

[brokensymmetry]

9. Take a look here -

http://www.tektonics.org/nokilling.html

It has an extensive discussion of the meaning of the word ratsach.

[realisticphish]

15. King James is a pile of shit

he fucked around with a lot of stuff, added the anti-witch crap


:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

[greatauntoftriplets]

6. In 12 years of Catholic schools....

it was "Thou Shalt Not Kill".

Can you provide a link to the research that says the word should be "Murder"? I am not knowledgeable about ancient Aramaic.

[brokensymmetry]

10. Sure. Please see my post #9. n/t.

.

[Q]

8. Kill...murder...it's all the same to those on which we drop bombs...

- When you intentionally kill/murder people that have done you no wrong or have broken no laws...that's a pretty good indication that you've broken the commandment in question.

- What's up with these rationalizations? We call it murder when terrorists fly planes into buildings...but not when we intentionally bomb residential neighorhoods in some broad, scattergun tactic in the hope that a few terrorists MIGHT be among them?

- The 'war on terrorism' has KILLED thousands of innocents and very few terrorists. There's something awfully wrong with this reality.

[brokensymmetry]

12. Depends.

If you look at the word ratsach, it generally means "killing in anger", as opposed to what is done in war.

That being said, please understand that I'm not saying killing all those innocent people is a good thing. We'll pay a terrible price for our current activities, whether one believes in biblical injunctions, karma, the law of return, or just plain old human nature.

[Dookus]

7. well

we're NOT a Christian nation, so the whole point is moot.

[sangh0]

14. Some DUers seem to like Republican propoganda

like "Christian nation". Anything to bash Dems.

[lanparty]

11. The fauxndamentalists Christians misunderstand the ...

... CHRIST part.

They understand the fire and brimstone of the old testament. Paradoxically, Jewish scholars don't take it quite so literally.

The fauxndamentalists take so much time TALKING about how cool christ is and spend so LITTLE time attempting to EMULATE Jesus.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

13. it appears to be the "not" part

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

16. It's not "kill" or "murder" if it's "collateral damage".

It's not either of them if the "collateral damage" isn't regarded as people. Not to mention that most of the "collateral damage" aren't white or American and don't vote or consume our goods.

Whattsa matter with you "Q"? Amerkuns are the good guys.

[realisticphish]

17. Though I know that

Jesus wanted peace, there is technically no rule against it. The Old Testament is a moot point now; a good guideline, but NOT CHRISTIAN LAW. This is true through all modern non-catholic churches (and probly some catholic), though most people choose to forget it at certain times. As far back as Luther, who said, (paraphrasing), the old testament is how the perfect man would be; however, that is unattainable, therefore the new testament shows how we should actually strive towards god's wishes

but that said, i doubt that Jesus would give a thumbs up to us bombing the fuck out of civilians

:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

[Q]

18. It may have been an 'accident' the first time we dropped bombs...

...on an Iraqi residential area and 'discovered' that we 'accidentally' killed dozens or hundreds of civilians. But the Bush* government has ordered this same thing over and over and over again. A second, third and fourth time can't be considered an accident...but an intentional attack upon the civilian population. This is a sin, immoral, criminal and a war crime.

- Don't look the other way.

[sangh0]

20. Was it an accident

that you repeated right-wing RNC propoganda like "Christian nation"?

[Q]

19. D

U
P
E

[Doc_Technical]

21. It's not what is written...

..it's how it is interpreted.
As noted in another post, it is now "thou shalt not murder" instead
of "thou shalt not kill". This means if another person wears a
different uniform than you, or if the state has a death warrant,
then it's just fine to "do Gog's work" and send the enemy of God and
Country to their fate.

There are a bunch of nut-cases, like the Church of the Creator, who
think that wealth and freedom are "God given"; which means that if
you are wealthy and free, it is the will of God.
This also means that anyone who is not wealthy or free, that is also
the will of God, and you can do with them what you want because God
has given you dominion over them because your power over them is "God given".

These "Old Testament Christians" love all that kill everything,
including women and children and animals stuff.

I've often wondered why they make a big deal of the Ten Commandments
yet ignore Matthew chapters 5-7 in the New Testament?

[leesa]

22. It's all those disclaimers God keeps attaching, you know like

It's bad to kill unless they are black or brown-skinned, homosexual or female, etc...

[jpgray]

23. Go tell Pope Greg that a few hundred years ago

Very few religious institutions follow any sort of consistent logic.

[damnraddem]

24. On a guess:

(1) thou,
(2) shalt not, and
(3) kill.

Otherwise, perfect understanding.

[in_cog_ni_to]

25. They amended that commandment, don'tcha know?

Thou Shalt Not Kill Christian White Men.