Fanatical Christians, Jews, & Muslims are screwing the world up

[mopaul]

they all worship the same invisible god of abraham, and they all threaten the whole world now. the less fanatical among these religions are apparently powerless to stop the fanatics. they have all converged to hasten armageddon and the book of revelations.

is there no way to stop this insanity?

[ArkDem]

1. I say FIGHT BACK

with goofy photoshops!

[slutticus]

2. I hope so.

These people are fucking looney toons.

I think getting * out of the white house should help a great deal.

[Bowline]

3. I firmly believe that organized religion is the greatest cause...

...of problems in the world today. Not God, Allah, or whatever deity one choses to worship but rather the organized groups who chose to act in the name of said deity, all to often to the detriment of the rest of the planet and those who do not believe as they do.

[ArkDem]

8. Not to mention Little League. Now there is a whole pot full of

problems.

[mopaul]

10. i've had my eye on the little league for years

they ain't foolin me

[Bowline]

11. Talk about fanatical people!!!

Little League and Youth League Soccer parents get wayyyyyy too involved in the game. I've personally seen parents attack umpires over calls at a Little League game.

[mark11727]

17. It's the players' parents, and the coaches...

...the kids are just there to play baseball.

[Cats Against Frist]

25. Politicized religion

is the problem.

[smirkymonkey]

43. I second that.

I personally beleive that the era of the Abrahamic religions and patriarchy is coming to an end and we seeing them in their death throes.

It may not happen in our lifetime, but if our species is to survive, a new paradigm must emerge. All this hatred and violence will eventually lead to the end of humanity as we know it.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

4. I don't think it's just religion

I think fanatics of every cause, secular or sacred, end up screwing the world over. Fanatic means you'll do ANYTHING to get your way and with that thinking, disorder is the only outcome.

[ArkDem]

15. Like Red Sox fans!

[GiovanniC]

22. Religion Makes People More Dangerous Than Secular Causes

Because religion promises a big reward when you die.

[Walt Starr]

5. Fanaticism is a dangerous thing when combined with religion

and you are correct, fantaics in all of the religions are destroying the world.

[drdigi420]

6. Religion is evil

'nuff sed

[shraby]

7. Don't have any answer for that

but that book of revelations looks pretty scary to me...nothing I would want to bring into being.

[el_gato]

9. Salvationist Religions all appeared around the same time

about three thousand years ago and they all have the
same message: "There is something wrong with you and
that is why you need to be saved." This concept is a
response to the alienated existence that is a by product
of the phoney world we have created, i.e. civilization.

[fujiyama]

12. They like to think of themselves

as "people of the book".

Well I have a message for them. Take your book and shove it up your collective ass.

I'm tired of hearing how great monotheistic religions are. Granted, I'm not a believer in any religion really, but these three are especially insane.

[sui generis]

13. yes but it takes courage and time

We have traditionally relied upon religion to provide moral guidance to our communities, apart from the law. It centers power in the community, often allows community members to share resources, and gives them something to contemplate other than the misery of most of their lives.

I personally believe that in the 21st century, there is no place for irrationality. Waiting for miracles to happen or putting everything off until the "afterlife", whatever that is, just doesn't make sense.

If you want cohesive communities and if you want moral guidance, you have to develop morality through good parenting and through understanding why we choose morality over amorality, rather than a rote set of rules from the bible (or whatever source).

When we align ourselves with an all powerful but non-existent "god", it is only natural that we want our particular sects to be ascendant over all others, and anywhere that "power" exists, rational or otherwise, there will always be corruptible selfish people trying to take advantage of it.

We have to teach our children (and ourselves) to think for themselves, and to respect and cherish the lives around them, to see miracles in the everyday, and to have awe at the wonder of life by exploring it with science and facts, and not with irrational faith.

[readmylips]

14. Agree...throughout history religion has been...

dangerous. When are people going to learn that God is not about religion but about faith? Faith starts within yourself. Praying that God comes down and feeds my family, it aint gonna happen until I get my ass to work. Prayers are chantings, poems to fuel our spirit that helps us get on with life.

Even the Pope making statements, feminism is dangerous, adds fuel to the religious political crazies. I like my catholic religion, but the Pope is totally out of touch or maybe never been touched. I don't have to go to church to feel that 24/7 ultimate faith between God and my spirit. My church is good for social events and they do great community work, but it has nothing to do with the core of my spirit.

[Zidane]

32. You are promoting another version of fundamentalism

"When are people going to learn that God is not about religion but about faith"

So you know more about what god is "about" than the other guy down the road? If I asked a fundamentalist he would say you were full of it and then proceed to tell me what god is REALLY "about". Then the next one would likely tell me both of you were wrong and here is what it is REALLY about. Your belief in knowing what god is really "about" is the same as any fundamentalists, except you promote a different (more sane/peaceful) message.

If you ask me religion/god/whatever is BS all ways around. No one knows what it's "REALLY" about because it's not "REALLY" about a damn thing. Yet, just about everyone who has a religion can tell me what it is "really" about.

I wish we could put all the people who are so sure they know what it is REALLY about in a room, let them go at each other, and let the rest of the sane world live with out having to be converted to what it is "really" about.

[arwalden]

16. They Are All Psychotic... They "See" and "Hear" Things That Aren't There

I'm guessing that maybe we'd be much better off if the Greek and Roman gods hadn't fallen out of favor, eh?

I mean... if we MUST worship gods, why not some OTHER god? Why didn't the Egyptian gods take hold worldwide? Why couldn't we be worshiping the same god that was worshiped by the Mayans or the Aztecs? (Even as brutal as they were with their beating-heart vivisection sacrifices at the altar... it couldn't be any WORSE than the horrors that exist today!)

-- Allen

[mopaul]

19. we've copied a lot from the mayans

and remember that they were once one of the world's great civilization/societies, and now they are gone, their great cities deserted and returned to the jungle.

we have our death cult too, and our invisible, vengeful gods, and our wars of invasion and conquest. we torture our enemies, we sacrifice our young, we put great weight on the value of gold, and we run our culture based on ancient, useless rituals and bizarre belief systems.

and i'm sure, like all civilizations, we will join them and the romans in extinction.

[MisterP]

39. oh it was RELIGION that did the Mayans in,

not resource overshoot. Why go with the archaeological evidence when we can have a (non-?)religious basis!

[sybylla]

48. So you've seen codices from the Mayans that document resource overshoot?

It's tangential but I'd need a little more evidence than archaeological assumptions that dictate only one cause for the Mayan collapse when in all likelihood, as with the downfall of every other culture, there were several contributory causes from sociological to economic to biological to geographical.

Call me a pessimist but the ability to determine archaeologically all the causes of the demise of a prehistoric culture seems unlikely.

[sangh0]

20. You haven't ever seen something that wasn't really there?

You've never imagined your love being returned when it really wasn't?

[arwalden]

26. Oh For Pete's Sake, Sangho! Nope... I've Never Imagined That.

I have been deceived by the lies of unfaithful lovers, however. Is that what you're asking?

What point are you trying to make? Are you defending the self-deluded and zealot fundamentalists and myopic wackos? (I don't know what you're getting at... I'm just asking, because that's what it sounds like.)

Being fooled by lying lovers (or even being a hopelessly naive lovesick romantic) is a far cry from hearing "godly" voices that tell you to push-the-button or to order a nuclear strike on North Korea.

Help me to understand the argument you're trying to make.

-- Allen

[sangh0]

46. No, I'm not talking about believing lies

I'm talking about seeing something in someone, only to discover later on that it wasn't really there. I'm not trying to excuse fundies. I'm trying to make the point that the ability to see things that aren't really there is not limited to the religious.

a far cry from hearing "godly" voices that tell you to push-the-button or to order a nuclear strike on North Korea.

I consider myself religious, but I've never heard those voices or any other voices, telling me to push a button.

Help me to understand the argument you're trying to make.

The tendency to see things that aren't really there is a characteristic of our human nature. We all do it sometime. Though you may have managed to avoid deceiving yourself, I suspect you may know of some non-religious people who have believed that someone loved them even though it wasn't true.

Emotions can't be seen, and if someone says they are experiencing a specific emotion, there is no way to prove or disprove it. Yet, we regularly believe that people do feel the way they say they feel, even though we have no proof, and the only evidence is what the person claims.

[seventhson]

18. They are NOT religious. They are fascists

who use religion as a propaganda tool.

One of the oldest political tricks in the book.

"Do what I say God told me you should do or He will smite thee with pestilence and death!"


Truly religious and spiritual people disdain power and greed.

[Spentastic]

21. Bollocks

Compared to the uber capitalists the fundies are utterly insignificant. Corporations are not religious but we are finding out they can be evil fuckers and they own everything.

[Cats Against Frist]

27. Well, who is it that you think they manipulate to get power?

Half the GOP electorate are Evangelicals.

[rman]

30. well, "being manipulated" is not equal to "screwing up the world"

the uber capitalists screw the world, in part by means of using religion to manipulate the masses.

[Cats Against Frist]

31. But how do you think they're leading them?

By their own fears, weaknesses and greed. It does partially fall on them -- that they are taking the low road, the fearful road, the divisive road -- the road on which they seek to elevate themselves above others.

[truthspeaker]

23. fanatical Hindus too - check out the Hindu Nationalists in India

go out of their way to antagonize Indian Muslims and incite violence.

[Cats Against Frist]

24. The big orange aluminum baseball bat of modernity

We, in America, have been born in a comfortable bubble. Forgetting that history isn't pretty, people are pretty shitty, people will do anything for power, and Christians have a good track record of fucking shit up and comitting atrocity to get their God ahead in the game -- and yes, that other religions do the same thing.

Now, from my comfortable perspective, thinking about taking action against them is almost obscene. I mean, it seems kind of crazy. BUT, BUT an anonymous poster on Yahoo!, after seeing my anti-fundamentalist Christian posts, one time, said to me: "You're never going to be able to talk to them. The only option is to beat them back with a stick."

And so then, I read the Declaration of Independence. The part where it says that "these truths are self-evident," and I read Thomas Jefferson's "I am not a spiritualist, I am a materialist," Bible, and I read Rousseau, and the writings of the Anti-Federalists that added the Bill of Rights to the Constitution -- and I see what the GOP has tried to do to liberty, and the Constitution. And I see how they are trying to strip the judiciary of power so that "simple majorities" of hateful, loony-ass Christian zealots can decide to enslave people, shut people out life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, censor our speech, indoctrinate our children -- trample the very foundation of our liberties.

And I see a passage, in the Declaration that states:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

And I say that that commands me to act.

A little bit of God is great, but they don't want respect for Christianity, they want INDOCRTRINATION and CHRISTIAN RECONSTRUCTION, and to dictate foreign policy to bring about their magical "end of the world."

These people are fucking crazy, and they're no different from Osama -- though, I really think that a lot of Muslim fundamentlism is politicized, and it is simply a reaction to U.S. and British foreign policy, that props up Israel. I guess you could say the same of the Christians here, who blatantly ignore the pleas of Jesus, in favor of social Darwinism, totalitarianist/authoritarian government, and greed, greed, greed.

[rman]

28. I thought it was the global elite, the big corporations,

who are doing the screwing, where religion is just one of their tools to devide and conquer.

[TWiley]

29. NPR had a great radio show on this topic.

The speaker was an author and PHD from Chicago University. He said that there were several levels of understanding God.

The first level was fundamentalism and he concluded that many of their beliefs actually get in the way of finding a genuine religious experience.

Fundamentalists believe in a literal interpretation of sacred writings instead of finding a deeper meaning through metaphor es or allegories. This belief leads them to view the world in either black or white as gad has created a list of demands for the world. They are intolerant, generally uneducated, and exhibit a spirit of malice more often than anything Christ like. They see individuals as either "with us or against us" with no grey area in between.

He also talked about the fundamentalist agenda.

If you are interested, you can probably find it on the NPR website. I believe it was aired Sunday on show called nondenominational voices or some similar title.

[TrogL]

33. Education

The problem is, they now control the educational institutions. In the Muslim world, regular schools are closed and everybody is sent to religious school where the only thing taught is religion.

Pretty much the same thing is happening in the United States - the "voucher movement" is growing. People are allowed to homeschool their kids with little or no supervision. The "schooling" consists of reading the bible and fundie-supplied textbooks that distort basic science, social studies and history.

The religious right is taking over school boards, burning textbooks, censoring libraries, bringing in their own textbooks (actually religious tracts) and doing everything in their power to destroy the public school system, while promoting their own religious schools.

It's going to be a long dirty war to win it all back. The longer we wait, the longer the war.

[lapislzi]

34. A book you need to read

The Battle for God by Karen Armstrong.

She makes no judgements (she leaves that up to the reader), but offers a good historical analysis of the rise of the fundamentalist strain of the three major Abrahamic religions. She also makes some general observation on where and how these strains deviate from standard dogma and theology.

[donkeyotay]

36. Another good read is the Dali Lama

I haven't read this book of Karen Armstrong's yet, but I've read others and seen her on book talks, and she is great.

I read the Dali Lama's book called Ethics for a New Millennium. and I don't think I could do it justice to try and summarize it because it would sound sort of trite, but it's not. It's a very deep and sane theory of ethics for today.

But the point I wanted to share was that he does an excellent job of defining the difference between religion and ethical behavior, and makes the argument that the non-religious aren't less ethical and conversly religion doesn't guarantee ethical behavior.

Not that anyone on this thread would disagree, but this assumption of moral superiority professed by these organized religions has always bothered me.

[lapislzi]

40. thank you for the recommendation

I find the DL's works difficult, but I will give that one a try.

And welcome to DU!

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[arwalden]

38. All Religious Fanaticism Is INSANE

[Uzybone]

37. totally true

religious fanaticsm blinds men from using the common sense and logic that God gave them. Im sure if you tally it up, religion has killed more humans than any other ideology. Its probably running third to disease and natural disaster.

[More Than A Feeling]

41. Christianity and the state do not mix and never were meant to.

It becomes like the pharisees, who put personal holiness over compassion, or like the sadducees, collaborating in oppression. Constantine did the world no great favor in making it the official religion of Rome.

If our government followed the values of love and compassion that the great religions preach, that would be wonderful. But setting up blind
obedience as a virtue and using religion purely to exclude and hate is pure idolatry.

[skygazer]

42. Religions are based on fear, not faith

Fear of death, of the unknown. Early tribal religions focused on what arrogant moderns refer to as "creation myths", as if the story of Adam and Eve is not a creation myth. These stories explained where the people came from and where they went when they died. It made it easier to face the unknown and to accept tragedy.

Leaders have always recognized the value of fear and by extension, the value of religion in keeping the people in line and exhorting them to do the leaders' bidding (go to war, accept hard times, etc.). Though science has answered many of the questions of existence, people prefer the comfort of traditional belief, mystic ritual and a promise of eternal life.

All religions teach concepts like peace and harmony while various religious groups methodically try to kill each other. Millions have died throughout history in the name of religion.

Me, I prefer to face the unknown.

[smirkymonkey]

44. Thank you. That's it in a nutshell.

Any institution that is fear based - religious, political or otherwise - will ultimately turn destructive.

[CaTeacher]

45. I like to challenge people's

religious beliefs--and I try to get them to consider atheism. (It is actually very effective--I teach young and impressionable kids-it is extremely easy to separate them from their religious values.)

Someday, I hope the entire world is atheist--there would be no more wars and hatred.

[burythehatchet]

47. The three religions born in Jerusalem are unique

in that they are specifically exclusionary. If you believe in soemthing else, you're wrong. I don't know how the actual philosophy treats this subject, but today's fundies sure represent a very definite opinion.