Joe Trippi: 'Howard Dean never believed in the movement' True or False?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

"Howard Dean never believed in the movement," Joe Trippi said. "Never. And I was never managing the thing. Never. Howard Dean was his own manager." http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/040719/usnews/19point.3c_5.htm

I guess I should make it clear, the question is 'do you believe what Trippi is saying is true or false', not 'was he accurately quoted'. When I read this statement, I almost fell out of my chair, but as surprising as I found it, based on what I've seen of Trippi, I don't doubt he said it.



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[Terry_M]

1. Good luck

;)

[vi5]

2. What is "the movement"?

I think he saw an opportunity to make a larger political name for himself by throwing a lot of red meat to a vocal, and dedicated group of people who were looking for just that. Unfortunately that group wasn't as large as they were perceived to be.

Even if he wasn't 100% sincere, that's not a bad things. Politicians do things all the time that are opportunistic as much as they are sincere (if not more so). And the net result of getting people talking again and o.k. to articulate their anger was a good thing, so who cares how much he actually believed in it.

[TeacherCreature]

6. Did you hear

Tuesday night at the convention the DNC is going to do a tribute to Dean. They are grateful to Dean as is the Kerry campaign.

[madfloridian]

18. I heard about that, was not sure what night. (Appears with MM Tuesday)

I wonder if it is Tuesday, though? He has two other speeches on that day.
www.ourfuture.org

and
Revolutionary Women
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=118-07192004

On Edit: I just noticed at the Take Back America site that Michael Moore is appearing at the 2 to 3 hour as well as Dean.
http://www.ourfuture.org/projects/dconrsvp.cfm

3. False

I saw Howard Dean speak twice, once in Bryant Park and once at the launch of DFA at the New School. I'm going to go with what my first hand perception tells me.

He believed in the movement.

Trippi is a political operative.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

5. I'm with you.

If Dean didn't believe in the movement, and Trippi did, how come Dean is the one still carrying on with it?

[Ripley]

8. Didn't Dean fire Trippi?

Gee, can you say sour grapes?

[On the Road]

4. I Don't Doubt Howard was Anti-Iraq War

but nothing in his background suggested that he was an activist or wanted to "fight the power." Since no one else was speaking out and there was lots of frustrated anti-war energy, it was an effective political strategy to seize the activist mantle.

What I don't understand is why Dean, after having achieved a commanding front-runner status, didn't stop going negative and return to who he really was, a pragmatic centrist governor. That was a winning strategy in both the primaries and the general.

Instead, Dean and Trippi kept pounding the same turf with increased intensity. I think they were high-energy workaholics who made each other worse. Kerry's more thoughful approach turned out to be more successful.

And I say that as someone who think Dean could have been a truly great president.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

9. Well I think you are right in that

Dean didn't start the movement, it coalesced around him. And I think the reason he didn't turn the corner back towards presenting himself as a 'pragmatic centrist governor' is precisely that he did believe in the movement, he believed it was bigger than he was... which may be part of the problem -- maybe Dean just doesn't have the massive ego required to be elected President.

[TeacherCreature]

16. Dean is and was always exactly what he presented himself as

A fiscal conservative and social liberal. It was the media and the brain dead DLC who labled him Liberal.
Dean is authentic which is more than I can say for John Kerry the anti-populist.

10. At least one thing in his background does, actually

He became a doctor, instead of a stockbroker & did this against his father's original wishes.
I think that is significant on a personal level & for me the personal and the political are intertwined.

[jobycom]

7. Is he saying Dean never believed the movement would work,

or that Dean never believed what he was saying?

Dean certainly spun his message to his audience, and I'm sure like every candidate he got carried away with speaking to the audience more than with saying exactly what he believed. As we see with Kerry, sometimes trying to catch the exact nuance of what you believe is pretty dull. But I doubt Trippi is saying Dean didn't believe any of what he said.

Maybe Trippi means that Dean never believed that the grassroots populist method would win? It sounds like Trippi trying to blame the failure on the candidate to keep his own record clean. Given some of Trippi's record of constantly taking America back and constantly running grassroots campaigns that seem flat by the end, I wonder if Dean was trying to get Trippi to go a little more to the middle, a little more mainstream, to try to win it, but that Trippi was resisting.

This would make Trippi's statement mean both things: that Dean didn't believe in Trippi's ability to create a winning grassroots movement and that Trippis therefore felt Dean didn't believe in his message, which was centered around the outsider/grassroots/populist ideals.

[CWebster]

11. What is the point of this other than flame bait

to incite discord?

The quote just stands there, without any context as if it was used deliberately convey what may not have been originally intended.

Dean is working hard to back the nominee, what would be the point of harassing his supporters other than deliberate baiting?

[Ripley]

12. It's not enough for us to say we'll vote for Kerry..

We have to actively hate Dean now. Repent for ever having supported him and admit we were wrong.

:puke:

[TeacherCreature]

17. The oringinal poster pretend he is just "interested in the topic"

LOL

[NYCGirl]

13. This is from Trippi's book, and it's quite different from your quote:

My office is in the corner of the third floor, a long narrow gash of a room—a crash site of paper, CD cases, and empty Diet Pepsi cans. Howard Dean is standing against the wall, his back to me. He’s shaking.

“You made this too easy,” he manages to say.

“What?” I ask.

“This. I never thought it would go this far. I was going to raise my profile, raise health care as an issue, shake up the Democratic Party. Help change the country. But I never thought this would happen. Don’t you understand?” He turns and faces me. “I never thought I could actually win. I wanted to . . . but I never really thought it could happen.”1

The entire foreward of the book is here:
http://www.joetrippi.com/intro

[madfloridian]

14. And Dean denies that as well. He said, he said....kiss and tell.

Trippi is covering his butt.

[TeacherCreature]

19. Trippi is so full of shit

[Feanorcurufinwe]

24. That's interesting, and I would like to hear your commentary on it

I could interpret that passage a couple different ways -- what is your interpretation.

[Larkspur]

15. Are Kerry fanatics suffering guilt...

Are Kerry fanatics suffering guilt about the Rovian tactics used to bring down Dean again? They must that is the only reason for Kerry fanatics to keep this kind of Dean-knocking thread going.

If Kerry fanatics were really serious about discussing Dean fairly, why didn't they post on madfloridan's thread titled E. J. Dionne: "The House that Dean Built" http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2024760

I notice that the usual Kerry fanatics are missing from that thread. Gee, wonder why?

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sangh0]

21. And what would you like to see Kerry supporters posting in that thread?

Is one now required to offer periodic praise to Dean in order to avoid being thought of as a Freeper?

[Larkspur]

22. When you post negative stuff about Dean, be prepared for

Dean supporters to fight back and don't whine when we do.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TeacherCreature]

23. don't take it personally

If the shoe doesn't fit don't try to wear it.

[sangh0]

29. And what would you like to see Kerry supporters posting in that thread?

It was a simple question. Why don't you try answering it instead of imagining that I'm personally offended by something that has nothing to do with me personally?

27. Don't know about others

I'd like to see some unity and alliances.
I do think this is beginning to occur, but it does seem to be taking some time and there kind of seems to be a dynamic of one step forward three-fourths of a step backward going on.


I think that what the comment is addressing is that some people eagerly jump on to a thread that discusses Dean's weaknesses and don't go to a thread that discusses his strengths.
The same is true about some people jumping on a thread that discusses Kerry's weaknesses and not going to a thread that discusses his strengths.

edit- I'll add that I don't actually have any particular preference about what people say on any of the threads other than maybe in the sense of tone they take & even that I'm not too concerned about anymore.
It'll all come out in the wash eventually I figure.

[Kahuna]

26. Dean was a complete angel, wasn't he?

:eyes:

[Straight Shooter]

25. Joe Trippi was always the weak link

I wouldn't be surprised if he goes to the Repub dark side, carrying a portfolio of "secrets" dredged from the cesspool of his imagination.

[Moderator]

30. I'm locking this thread

as continuing a flame war dupe.