names can never harm you, nor can vulgar words

[mopaul]

too many hall monitors up in here. maybe people who are offended by the use of so called foul or dirty words, should get jobs as censors.
absolutely no one is harmed when a person is called an insulting name, or when a person uses street language in his threads.

how, may i ask, does this harm anyone? and so what if you are offended by certain subject lines, or colorful words? maybe you are too thin skinned. is this something left over from your traumatic childhood when someone called you a dirty name? sure, as a kid, it hurts, but we are all grown up here right?

i'll never understand the old name calling routine, but it never fails. when things get heated, someone invariably throws an insult, in the form of a sound vibration, as a weapon. it is precisely at this point, after the insult has left the insultors mouth, and before your brain reacts to it, that the insultee has the decision to let the offending sound bounce off his psyche harmlessly, or penetrate and disrupt his brain patterns, shifting them toward offensibility.

in other words, just refuse to be insulted, and your attacker has failed. his bullet words bounce off you like superman. i'm just a jerk with very few refined social skills, but i'm not offended by ANYTHING i've ever read here. maybe i'm not in the right frame of mind, or not wired right, but if i see the word bitch, or fuck, or shit, or goddamn or fuck or whatever, i'm not suddenly sent into fits and seizures. i don't know of any women offended by the word bitch.

but insults only work IF YOU LET THEM. if you're black and someone calls you a nigger in the wrong way, just laugh in their face, they hate that. or if someone calls you fat, or crippled, or stupid, or ugly, or smelly, or a dyke, or a fag, or a rag head, or a heeb, or a spick or a gook, or whatever intended nasty phrase, simply laugh it off and refuse to be offended. if you are offended, and you blow up in righteous indignation, your attacker has won, and you have been suckered in to his game.

the same goes for someone insulting your particular religious persuasion. if someone bashes certain atrocious behavior by certain clergy, one gets accused of being an anti religious bigot. if one steps into the palestinian/israeli issue, one must be prepared to be attacked as an isultor or bigot. you can't win.

the recent experiment with censorship was interesting, but there are always people who feel the need to pepper and flavor their ideas and language with seasonings and spices. you should not assume from a lofty tower that someone who uses certain rough words is less intelligent than those who don't. this is pompous arrogance, and it might even qualify you as an asshole. the use of coarse language is NOT the sign of a weak mind. and it does NOT make you superior in any to use bland, unflavored language.

[Spentastic]

1. Counter point

The use of language to demean a person or a group has consequences. Those here willing to use such language should at least be aware of the offence / harm they are causing.

This is indicative of the entire issue.

"i don't know of any women offended by the word bitch."

I assure you my friend, I know of some that are. They will happily tell you why they feel that this is an inappropriate term. Are you willing to ignore their feelings because you don't know anyone who is offended by words you use? I have a feeling there would be plenty of people of a certain persuasion wandering about calling people niggers if that was the standard for use of language.

Turning the other cheek or laughing it off is of a course a viable and sometimes preferable approach to dealing with insults. However, on other occasions allowing people to get away with stereotyping and biogotry can have far reaching consequences. Remember dehumisation has been used by many in the past as an precursor to removing said humans from the earth.

You are of course correct, profanity in itself is not necessarily an indicator of intelligence. By its nature it is offensive. If people choose to be offensive and intelligent I believe it is their lookout. Of course they may have to realise that people that don't like profanity may dicount their ideas because of it.

[ima_sinnic]

3. yes, if you want your message to be heard, watch your language

It goes like this:

xxxxx @#%*&^ xxxxxx xxxxxx xxxxxx xxxxx xxx #(*^#% xxxx xxxxx xxxx xxxx *&%@$&% xxxxxx @#*(&^* #@*&%^ xxxxx xxxx *&^@

. . . all people hear is *&*^@, the rest is lost.

being careful with language is an indication of class, of thinking of the feelings of others. It might surprise you to know that I am offended by the word "boobs" and also "chick." "bitch" doesn't bother me as much as those 2 very demeaning words. Thank goodness "chick" seems to have pretty much died out since the 70s-early 80s, but "boobs" seems to have become far too common. Hey, my breasts are not something ridiculous.

[quinnox]

7. There are those

who like watching Jerry Springer and enjoy it. I don't find it entertaining, myself. I don't choose to watch it. People have different tolerance levels, just because one doesn't find anything offensive doesn't mean everyone else does. (or should, for that matter)


Edit: This was meant as a general reply, not intended as a response to post #1.

[rock]

2. mopaul you ignorant slut

While I agree with the thrust of your argument, it is rather, er, impolite to call someone names. And it tends to make for irrational discourse. That is, it's non-productive if you're wanting to achieve a reasoned argument. Your basic point is well taken though: name-calling takes place at the emotional level and is only harmful if you allow it to be.

[Pocho]

4. WHAT IT DOES

is tell you more about the speaker than what the speaker has to say.

[displacedtexan]

5. you are absolutely correct, mopaul!

imho, the best response to name callers:

It's a shame that no one ever cared enough about you to teach you any manners.

works every time. if dem guests on pundit tv used this comeback just once, they could stop the repuke (yep, i'm guilty of name calling) shouting crap.

[DarkPhenyx]

6. Thank you!

Something I've said a hundred times before. You can't be hurt by words, it's the attitude behind them. Call me anything you like, I really don't care. I will, however, ask you to explain and defend. If you can't, you lose. That's pretty simple.

[Q]

9. I'm not offended by offensive words...

...but that's really not the point on a board such as DU. We come here to DISCUSS the issues of the day. This would be impossible without at least the basic rules of civility.

- I consider DU someone elses 'house' where I come to visit from time to time. If I disrespect the 'rules of the house' I wouldn't expect to be welcome the next time.

- Do anything you want in your own 'castle'...but political boards like DU quickly fall into chaos when we refuse to show respect to each other as fellow travelers.

[Liberal Veteran]

8. I vote 50/50.

The internecine backbiting and name calling should be kept to an absolute minimum, although I rather doubt anyone is going to take offense at namecalling of external persons like calling Bush a "chimpy looking f**ktard", but I think that most people would agree that when it comes to public namecalling on each other, it needs to be taken offline for the good of all.

Swearing on the other hand does not bother me in the slightest. I think you CAN cross the boundaries of good taste even in this forum. I don't think it's anything that needs much oversight however.

[dpl202]

10. If no one is harmed...

or, put another way, has no effect, why use vulgar words or insulting names?

Why not be civil?

[DemLikr]

11. Fuckin-A, Mopaul! But you'll change no minds with your reasoned/seasoned

post.

Blue-nosery, prudism, and and the relatively new affliction of Progressive/Liberal Hall Monitorism are emotional disturbances which resist all forms of treatment.

The best course of treatment is "tough love," which requires those of us with potty mouths to use bad-bad nasty words as often as we wish in discussion here. This will aid in the thickening of the victims' epidermis and simultaneously help them face the grown up fact that not everything someone else says is ABOUT THEM.

That said, have a motherfuckin, ass-lickin day out there!

[Bandit]

12. It isn't the vulgarity that bothers me it's the violence that bothers me

There was a thread here yesterday about "pimp-slapping" someone. I don't consider the word Pimp to be a vulgarity although it may be but I do object to the casual reference to violence as if it was acceptable. Violence seems to permeate every aspect of American culture and I find it objectionable. I find nothing humorous in someone being slapped whether they are a "Ho" or a "bitch" or a "pimp" or whatever. I think DU especially should be more immune to such tawdriness. If you wish to say fuck,shit,piss,cocksucker, or whatever, go ahead. I can live with that just fine. Although there are better ways to express oneself. I do object to the off-handed references to using violence as a way of life. We are not the WWE here and I think we can all do better. Just my $.02 worth

[leftofthedial]

13. goddam censorship is fucking bullshit

but using foul language is a lazy person's way to avoid having to be articulate.

kind of like me in my subject line.

it also tends to put off a portion of the audience, who will not read your message. They'll just see the dirty words and tune you out.

kind of like this post.


Well put though. I'm a radical free speech proponent. If you don't like it, don't read it. Censorship only works to frustrate communication, squelch creativity, and generally piss of motherfuckers like you and me.

[mopaul]

15. watch what you say about my mother, that woman is a saint!

one time my mother heard my younger brother cursing up a storm. she went totally postal on his ass with her shoe, and beat him mercilessly for over 5 minutes in a joan crawfordesque frenzy. he never cursed again, except on rare occassions. and then only church sanctioned curse words, cause he was born more than once. he says damn or hell, or sonofabitch, but never the more graphic words. my mom took care of his dirty mouth.

i use will pitt as an example. he curses like a damn oil rigger but always makes good points. i have never once felt that his potty mouthed ravings were lessened in strength simply due to the vulgarities. all of these words are in the dictionary and new ones being added all the time.

as far a squelching creativity, that's slightly debatable. 'goodfella's' wouldn't be the same movie if you took out the word fuck. many poets and writers use profanity. people actually talk that way. it all cracks me up.

[leftofthedial]

18. we agree.

I think censorship, not the use of vulgarity, squelches creativity.

Sorry if that wasn't clear.

I'm a pretty casually foul-mouthed person myself, so I'm not sensitive to vulgar words, though, like anything, they have their place.

I do think there are people (certainly Will is NOT in this group) who use vulgarity in lieu of articulating what they want to say.

[Cocoa]

14. some people are hurt by some words

Maybe you aren't. Good for you, but people are different, they come from different places, and that changes the way people are affected by words.

And those are the people this is about, the people who might be hurt.

That's why the issue is different in the context of a public forum, compared to people you know. With people you know, you can have a good idea how things will be taken. With strangers it's a different story, there's more danger of feelings being hurt.

[44wax]

16. tough times tough language

Not every visitor to this board has always been a sensitive, well centered, thoughtful person their whole life. Some of has have come to our place in life from the neighborhood called, "Shut the fuck up! Change the goddam channel and take off my boots." Some of us have been pimp slapped, beat to shit, fucked over, played for a slut, and treated like a little bitch. We had to fight our way out of that kind of madness and into a place a little more peaceful. So here I am on this board trying to scream above the polite discourse and let my leaders in Sacramento and Washington D.C. know that there are some blue collared, rough ass motherfuckers who are saying it is okay to kick some bfee ass.

[CBHagman]

17. Why use harsh language, designed to offend, and then turn...

...all wide-eyed and incomprehending when someone is offended?

Why instruct others on how they are supposed to feel? Just how intimately acquainted are you with the personal experiences of DU posters?

And an air of superiority and a judgmental attitude aren't necessarily displayed in the Queen's English and a vuglarity-free post. Sometimes they turn up with the four-letter words.

[Pocho]

19. MAL EDUCADO

We have an expression here in Mexico, a kinder and gentler nation which has preserved the great native secret of how people ought to live among each other. A person who acts arrogant, rude, and crude is said to be "mal educado". That translates to and means “poorly educated”. It does not however refer to years of formal schooling, for they also can show in arrogance, rudeness, and crudeness. Rather, it has to do with the more important childhood lessons of social grace passed through the generations by the nation's mothers. It is too bad that curriculum was abandoned in the nation to the north where the teachers were murdered rather than married.