I'm supporting Dennis Kucinich for President in 2004 because

[DemBones DemBones]

he is a true progressive Democrat, an honest man with strong views about the importance of helping all people and a voting record to match. He is also a man with a long history of winning elections against the odds and of garnering support from people who normally vote Republican. Dennis grew up poor and has worked at a variety of jobs since he was a teenager as well as earning two college degrees along the way. In an interview with Studs Terkel years ago, Dennis (then the "Boy Mayor" of Cleveland) explained how his experiences helped him to realize at an early age that there was something wrong with the system because it's a myth that people who work hard always get ahead. I heard a reporter from the Cleveland Plain Dealer remark on a television show that Dennis Kucinich returns to Cleveland almost every weekend and attends many weddings, funerals, and other events in his district, which shows the high priority he places on the people he serves. The reporter also described him as both a serious man and a man with a great sense of humor, a very gregarious man. The DUers who have met him in person have described him as having a real presence, being a passionate and inspiring speaker, and giving his complete attention to a person when speaking with them one on one.

To explain his views, and my support of them, I am going to briefly explain his Ten Top Issues and many of the "smaller" issues that fit into those categories.
(You can read a lot more at http:www.kucinich.us)

Kucinich's insistence on labeling genetic food is one of the "smaller" issues and a major reason I became interested in him as a candidate. I believe that American have a right to be told if their food is genetically modified (at present you can assume that you are eating GM foods but identifying which foods are and which foods aren't is very difficult and the foods industry resists labeling.)


Universal health care is something Dennis Kucinich sees as essential for America and so he has made this his #1 issue.

Protecting the Social Security benefits owed to workers and rolling back the retirement age from 67 to 65 is Kucinich's #2 issue.

Fair trade is Kucinich's #3 issue and he proposes repealing NAFTA and the WTO and replacing them with fair trade agreements.

Making the changes that Dennis Kucinich has promised in these three areas would benefit all Americans immeasurably and can be achieved without bankrupting businesses or the government. He also wants to "Restore a balance between workers and corporations (Issue #6), including

Defending workers' rights to organize and bargain collectively

Reversing tax cuts that benefit the already well-to-do

Reinstituting the estate tax

Kucinich also calls for "living wages, not minimum wages", guaranteed quality education, pre-K through college (Issue #7), and plans to restore rural communities and family farms, (Issue # 9) which he would do by

breaking up agricultural monopolies

assuring fair prices for farmers

He also promises strong USDA enforcement of tough new food safety laws, in line with his proposals for environmental renewal and clean energy (Issue #10), which include

toughening environmental enforcement

supporting the Kyoto Treaty on global climate change

reducing oil dependence

spurring investment in alternative energy sources


My favorite sentences in his proposals about the environment are:

"Globally, the U.S. will become a leader in sustainable energy production and a partner with developing nations in providing inexpensive, local, renewable energy technologies."

and

"The right to know (for example, when food is genetically engineered) will supercede corporate secrecy."

Kucinich also calls (Issue #5) for protection of right-to-choose, privacy, and civil rights, including

Repeal of the Patriot Act (Issue #4)

Drug policy emphasizing treatment over criminalization.

An end to capital punishment

and much more, including a pledge that "Only those who agree to uphold Roe v. Wade will be nominated for the Supreme Court."

I have left the commitment Dennis Kucinich has to renewed peace and diplomacy (Issue #8) until last because I want DUers to understand how strongly committed he is on these issues.

Kucinich is not a pacifist but he believes that most wars can be avoided, which is why he has proposed a Department of Peace. This is not a new issue for him; he has been lobbying for it for years. He would also raise the salaries of military personnel and commit more money for veterans' benefits. He would cut funding for weapons programs that are inefficient, like the "missile shield" that doesn't work but, if funded, will be a gigantic cash cow for the defense industry) and put that money into taking care of our fellow citizens who serve in the military.

Like almost all of us at DU, Kucinich opposed the invasion of Iraq. As many of us did, he participated in protests, just as he has participated in union marches, anti-globalization demonstrations, and other progressive causes.

Kucinich spoke publicly against the war against Iraq from the very beginning, led the House Progressive Caucus in voting against it last fall, and has continued to speak out on a regular basis, even on the very day Bush* ordered the invasion. He supports the welfare of our troops and wants to bring them home now, calling for the US to immediately begin planning an exit strategy with the UN that would replace our troops with UN peacekeepers. American businesses would be prohibited from profiting from Iraq's reconstruction. In his efforts to end the war and occupation/ guerilla war in Iraq, Kucinich has sued Bush* and introduced resolutions and amendments to bills.

Unless you are already a Kucinich supporter, you have probably learned several things about Dennis Kucinich in this post and perhaps you are surprised that he has been so actively speaking out against the war on the floor of the U.S. House of Representatives as well as other venues. The media don't give him much coverage at all and I believe this is yet one more indication of how the American media don't want change in the status quo. The media serve their corporate owners and sponsors, who have a vested interest in not letting the voters develop an interest in a candidate who really wants to turn the government around and make it serve all the people, rather than a small minority of the people who have wealth and power.

We can elect Dennis Kucinich, and a new, more progressive Congress to work with him, next year, just as Americans elected FDR and a new Congress to change the country's direction and get us out of the Great Depression. We won't have "homeland security" as long as we continue to throw our military might around -- we need a president who "works well with others." We won't have prosperity as long as the laws are set up to allow jobs to be exported by companies that are still operating here (and quite possibly banking offshore!) We won't have health or prosperity as long as the laws are set up to allow those in government to steal from Social Security, pass tax laws to enrich those who are already rich, bail out irresponsible corporations who have not maintained their company's infrastructure as they should have, and allow health insurance corporations to make huge profits and drive up the cost of medical care by requiring huge amounts of paperwork. We need a president who is committed to helping everyone enjoy a decent quality of life.

We need a strong progressive president to make this country strong and prosperous again.

We need Dennis Kucinich.

[cherryperry]

1. It's good for the soul!

It's the right thing to do!

It's nice to still have principles rather than cynical practicality!

It's a tribute to the memory of Paul Wellstone!


:loveya: :hi: :kick:

[Ohio Dem]

2. This was a very good post.

Thanks for posting it. Tomorrow, when I have more time, I will go through it word for word. There is a lot of positive information here, and while I'm sure DK will be attacked by others in this very thread, this is the kind of thing that I come to DU to read. You make a very strong case.

I wish there were more threads like these. Bashing pisses me off.

[Fenris]

3. I really like Dennis

Out of all the Democratic contenders, Kucinich is the only one I put a lot of faith in to follow through and actually turn this country around. I think it's funny that people seem to think he's a bit looney, because all of his ideas seem well thought out and very coherent. He sold me after I listened to him talk about fair trade and the need to get rid of the WTO and NAFTA. And I thin the Department of Peace idea is great, especially the extension of veteran's benefits.

I don't think he has a good chance of winning the nomination, but you know what, I don't care. He's the only candidate I believe in and until the primaries end his candidacy, he'll get my support.

[DemBones DemBones]

4. Thank you all for your positive comments. I think that it's

important to ask questions and discuss a candidate's negatives as well as his or her positives, but it can be done without flaming.

I think most of us are tired of people who enter a thread only to say something negative. We may have all been guilty of it but we can all stop it and act like the civilized people our parents should have raised us to be.

Peace begins with each one of us. :hippie:

[SyracuseDemocrat]

5. Aren't you pro-life, DemBones?

Kucinich would have gotten the Democrats for Life endorsement had he not flip-flopped. I had respect for him when he remained pro-life in a party that is very pro-choice, much like I have respect for Republicans who are pro-choice in a party that is very pro-life. I used to think that Kucinich had the courage of his convictions, but I don't think so any more. I feel that he is an opportunist who sold out for feminist support. Sorry, I just don't respect Dennis Kucinich.

[DemBones DemBones]

6. I am pro-life but I am more comfortable with Dennis's stand than

anyone else's.

Initially, I felt the same feelings you describe, but reading his statements about why he changed made me reconsider him. Like him, I have never thought outlawing abortion was going to end it -- if abortions are outlawed, only outlaws will have abortions, right? And I do care about what happens to women faced with unplanned pregnancies and understand that some are in desperate situations. For many of us an unplanned pregnancy is a "surprise" baby to be welcomed but that's not true for all. We live in a culture that wants to plan everything, with couples demanding ultrasounds so they'll know what the sex of their baby is just to be able to paint the room the right color and buy gender-appropriate clothes! ( I'm still surprised when people say that and wonder why they don't just go with yellow, white, lavender, or pale green walls for the nursery and gender-neutral clothes for the first month or two.)

I very much support Kucinich's plans to make contraceptives more available and provide more education to prevent unplanned pregnancies, and provide financial support to pregnant women who feel that they can't afford to have and raise the baby they're carrying. Reducing the number of elective abortions performed in America is a worthy and reachable goal, and my hope is that, given the support Kucinich proposes, the number of women who feel they must abort will, over time, become a very small number, a fraction of the 1.6 million performed almost every year since Roe v. Wade. (I believe it fell to 1.3 million last year.)

Anyway, Dennis stopped voting on abortion-related legislation about two years ago while he reconsidered his position. I'm not naive so I expect that his political future was part of the equation. However, I tend to believe he really struggled with the issue because it certainly would have won him more support to announce his changed view a year to a year and a half earlier, even two years earlier if it was only about political expediency. He says that he was troubled by the actions or comments of pro-life colleagues because many of them seemed to care about saving unborn babies' lives but not about the lives of the babies' mothers or about what happened to the babies once they were born. I know you're aware of this problem with the pro-life movement, as the pro-choice people sometimes say we're all like that. I've never personally known a pro-lifer who was like that but if they exist anywhere, I can imagine them being in Congress!

I have never been able to understand why people voted for Bush* or his father, or Reagan, as "pro-lifers" because not one of them ever did much to reduce abortion. I believe that Kucinich will and I am so pleased with his stands on other issues that I can't oppose him for being unable to solve the greatest moral dilemma of our time, namely, how do you protect a woman's rights and also protect her baby's rights?

Thank you for asking me about this and I hope my explanation makes some sense to you even if you still can't support Dennis.

[Dhalgren]

40. And I might just add to your very well said response,

that everyone, especially in a political setting, has got to be given the room to change their opinions. That is what political debate is all about. If two people hold different views on a given subject and debate the issue, if one of the two "sees the light" and says, "Yes, I was wrong. I now agree with your statement, based upon your argument and my subsequent revisiting of my view." This is a good thing and the person should not be ridiculed for having the courage to admitt that they were wrong and have changed. This is a plus for Dennis, not a negative.


edit: spelling

[GabysPoppy]

77. Thankyou for your answer

Most of the time Pro DK supporters will throw up answers that are both unrealistic or accusatory of the questioner.

Yours is well thought out and well reasoned. I may not agree with you about DK but I will now have no problem supporting him should he get the nomination.

I would have been a bit happier had he voted pro-life after his "transformation" as opposed to voting present. The present vote was too hypocritical for me.

Thanks again

ABB

[juajen]

10. Don' try to hijack this thread with the anti-abortion position

Mary Landrieux is also pro-life, which doesn't preclude her from being pro-choice. It's certainly a feasible position, because it's the one that I have. Most Catholics are pro-life, and Dennis is Catholic. Vote for whoever you like and be true to your own values. It's your right, but give all of us the choice we prefer. None of us support Dennis without knowing how he stands on this issue.

[DemBones DemBones]

18. Thanks for adding this, though I didn't feel that

Syracuse Democrat was trying to hijack the thread by voicing a criticism of Dennis Kucinich ,and she/ he was correct to wonder why I would support him, since I have made no secret of being a pro-life progressive. (And a Catholic, though, just for the record, I was pro-life before I was received into the Catholic Church and it was not my belief about abortion that led me to become Catholic.)

As I said, abortion is the great moral dilemma of our time. And I don't want to hijack my own thread by talking about it (!) but I will add that in the years when Dennis Kucinich voted against abortion, he maintained a consistent pro-life stance, also opposing capital punishment, and of course his beliefs about war are shown by his opposition to the war on Iraq and his proposal for a Department of Peace. I believe that he did vote to authorize the war in Afghanistan in response to the 9/11 attacks, and he has stated that, as president, he would have no problems ordering military action in a just cause. There are, as I'm sure you know, very specific, long-held criteria for what constitutes a just war, accepted by many people who are not Catholic.

Lest anyone feel that Kucinich is too much influenced by Catholicism, I'd also point out that he supports federal funding for greater education about and availability of contraception, which goes against Catholic teaching, as does his support of same-sex marriage. When his own informed conscience leads him away from Catholic teaching, he doesn't hesitate to follow his conscience, as Catholics are actually taught to do.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. Mary Landrieu Is Personally Opposed To Abortion

but opposes legislation to outlaw it because she believes that decision belongs in the personal not the state realm.

Pro-Life politicians want to impose their anti-choice values on others through the power of the state.

They want to federalize the womb.

Let's not play word games here...

[Northwind]

14. Ding ding ding ding ding ding ding!

[diamondsoul]

32. *sigh* Oh boy, here we go again.

No offense because I know abortion is a very emotional issue for most people, but I think you're taking his change in policy the wrong way.

Kucinich hasn't abandoned his personal pro-life beliefs. He still wishes abortions never happened. He just came to the conclusion, after much introspection and discussion I might add, that making it illegal won't achieve the goal of reduction and eventual elimination of abortion. He's absolutely right.

It's sad for me to know this is the one thing Pro-lifers and Pro-choicers actually have in common for the most part, yet we can never seem to work together to achieve that end. Instead we argue legalities and human rights without considering the actual tree that makes up the forest. In this case we have that old cliche' backwards. Can't see the tree for the forest.

Congressman Kucinich has looked at the trees that make up the forest of women and children in this country. He's come to conclude that making the option of abortion illegal would only serve to harm the women and children without altering the numbers of abortions at all. This is something I share with him. In order to even begin to reach the common goal of ending abortions, we MUST use common sense, and that does not include turning desperate women and compassionate physicians into criminals. That's just not a rationsal solution to the issue.

There are causes of the demand for abortion. Circumstances women find themselves in that force them to make choices that aren't pleasant, simple or even desirable in most cases. Life is not so simple as "have the baby and give it up if you don't want it.". If we don't bother to address the causes of the demand for abortion well before we change the laws providing for the option, we will succeed in nothing but causing more unnecessary death than we already see happening. Instead of human fetuses and embryos being destroyed, we will destroy thousands of women, families and the lives of innocent children. We have to have a perspective here, a priority list. I realize that sounds callous to a Pro-life person, but it's just a fact. We HAVE to make our families a priority. We HAVE to make it possible for the woman who has four children, very little income, and whose birth control fails to have that new baby she may very well WANT to have. We HAVE to make it so that she doesn't feel forced to choose between her born children and her unborn child before we take away her right to make that choice at all.

THIS is Congressman Kucinich's stand, and mine, on the issue of abortion. He took the time to see the women who are most commonly faced with this situation, and find some compassion for them. Can you?

[dpbrown]

33. Very well said

Thank you for that perspective.

[diamondsoul]

57. Thanks, dp.

It seems to me it's a subject people around here avoid studiously, and I'm not sure that's a good thing. I think it's important that PL and PC Dems realize just what it really is that divides us on that issue so effectively. It isn't the value of fetal life, it's comprehending the consequences of outlawing abortion, and being willing to examine whether there are better ways to handle the issue.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

49. Kucinich comes out of the liberal Catholic position known as

the "seamless pro-life position."

This means not only being against abortion, but also against capital punishment and war. Quite a different position than the yahoos who seem to love fetuses but reserve the right to bomb already born Iraqi children and kill mentally retarded convicts.

[diamondsoul]

56. Isn't it funny,

I consider myself a sort of "reformed Catholic"- that is I don't practice the Catholic faith any longer because of its insertion of its own doctrine into politics outside the Vatican.

However, one of the reasons I admire Kucinich so much is because of his "seamless Pro-life" views. I oppose war, the Death Penalty, and would like to see the demand for abortions ended.

I also used to be one of those adamant PL nut-cases. I thought I was so much *better* than women who opted to abort because I'd *never* do such a hateful thing. Yeah, well reality can sometimes be one hell of a cruel teacher, and I learned the hard way, NO WOMAN is ever immune to an unplanned and risky pregnancy. That's what turned me around, realizing how arrogant and smug I was.

I firmly believe Congressman Kucinich, when faced with women who had dealt with the options available, could not avoid his compassionate nature. That's what happens when a man with some integrity, heart, and human kindness examines all sides of an issue.

[DemBones DemBones]

66. You've contributed greatly to the dialogue on this issue, diamondsoul,

and I'm so glad you did. I was pro-choice when I had my unplanned and risky pregnancy (IUD failure) and it didn't change my view -- that epiphany came about a dozen years later. It was, however, one of the lessons in my life that's hammered it home to me that I don't always get what I want , and that I can endure difficult times. It's just all part of the human condition, isn't it?

Pax tecum.

[diamondsoul]

68. I think you really hit that nail

squarely. The human condition is such that almost NOTHING is ever black and white for everyone.

As I said, I think almost everyone would like to see abortion stop altogether. I mean I'm pretty adamantly Pro-choice, but let's face it, we're not talking about clipping a toenail here. It's surgery for the woman and death for a potential child.

It's a sad situation that we leave women in a position to have to choose life or death that way, but that's the way I see it. We don't pour money into perfecting birth control, we don't pour funding into caring for children who don't have decent family or family at all, we make it difficult for even near perfect children to be adopted, we ensure seeking mental health care is humiliating in the extreme for most people. There are just too many factors that have to be addressed before we start yanking away the most drastic of all the solutions.

As determindly pro-choice as I am, I've stated the only way I would have an abortion a second time would be if I would die giving birth. The sole reason I'd do it then is my two born children. I, personally, wouldn't do it again even if I were raped and impregnated.
One of the reasons I do talk about this issue a lot is because I have a lot of experience with almost every facet of unwanted pregnancy. I was the product of an accidental pregnancy myself, I was adopted by my Dad after my mother chose to keep me and raise me alone for the first 6 years of my life, I've watched a teenaged aunt give birth and keep her baby only to have it die hours after being born, I've faced unintended pregnancy myself and made the choice to abort, I've been raped prior to emergency contraception and been worried sick for weeks that I was pregnant, and I watched my sister go through hell when she handed over her baby to me to raise only to find she couldn't stand to be near him and not have him with her.

I think one of the things that disturbs me about the most rabid of Pro-life folks that I've run across (and you don't seem to fit that title), is the complete lack of compassion for other human beings, whether it's the pregnant woman or other people who will be affected by that pregnancy. That's where Dennis Kucinich (and you as well) impresses me on this issue. He clearly DOES have that compassion and always has, even when he was solidly Pro-life in his voting.

[Iluvleiberman]

70. Kucinich is not pro-choice enough

The other candiates are.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

73. Nice potshot without any backing..

As far as I know Dennis Kucinich is the only candidate that has stated he would appoint only justices that would uphold RvW.

What's not pro-choice enough about that?

TWL

[JasonBerry]

7. DemBones: GREAT post.....

Good job - it's about time some people had the fire around here that DJK shows on the campaign trail.

You have done well by the man tonight - kudos.

[DemBones DemBones]

19. Thanks so much. I believe in Dennis Kucinich as a progressive and

honest candidate -- the Real Deal -- and wanted to do my best for him by explaining his views and the other reasons I support him so strongly.

[Fixated]

8. ....

I agree with a lot of what he says, but he won't win a national election. Ever. Period. And I don't think we need to debate it, because we'll get results next year.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

15. Dewey beats Truman

I'll show you "electable"

[DemBones DemBones]

21. Perhaps you missed this sentence from my post:

"We can elect Dennis Kucinich, and a new, more progressive Congress to work with him, next year, just as Americans elected FDR and a new Congress to change the country's direction and get us out of the Great Depression."



If we spend our time between now and January working for Dennis Kucinich, we can win.

If we spend our time between now and January worrying about what the freepers are saying, trashing Ann Coulter, fighting with each other about who's electable, flaming Southerners, etc., we will lose, and lose the general election to Bush* as well.

NOW IS THE TIME FOR ALL GOOD DEMOCRATS TO COME TO THE AID OF THEIR PARTY AND THEIR COUNTRY.

[Dhalgren]

42. Excellent reply

and I agree wholeheartedly! "Electability" doesn't elect a candidate, voters do. If your opponent has x-number of votes, all you need to do is make sure your candidate has x+1 number of votes. You get those votes by campaigning, discussing, teaching, convincing, and registering voters. Since last week I have convinced 3 citizens to register as Democrats. I feel pretty good about that...now if they will only vote how I tell them to. ;-)

[AnAmerican]

64. You are entitled to your opinion

but please remember it is an "opinion". There are quite a few of us who have differing views on whether or not Dennis can be elected President.


As for my reason for supporting Dennis. Simple....one word....
integrity. When the man speaks I know it is coming from the heart, he is not wishy-washy, he is not dissembling, he is not pandering.

When he speaks I know he truly believes in what he is saying.

We CAN have a better world, we CAN have a better nation.

It is not only possible, it is necessary. Dennis is the one who can provide the leadership.

[juajen]

9. I will be happy to tell you why I support Dennis,

although you support him for the same reasons. He seems incredibly sincere and warm. He believes in what I believe in, specifically what you enunciated above and he is not afraid seemingly of anything or anybody. He owes nobody and has not taken money from big corporations which might expect repayment. He is still relatively poor financially, and, call me a cynic, but I trust someone more when I know they don't worship the "big green". Lastly, perhaps the biggest reason is that he was against the war and worked very hard getting other congressmen to vote "NO" to the Iraq War. I loved this and continue to be amazed at his courage in the House of Representatives. "That's all folks!"

[Tinoire]

23. Nice n/t

[DemBones DemBones]

25. Great post, juajen! You picked up on a couple of points

that I missed (and you'd think I could have hit them all in my long essay!) (blush)

[blm]

11. Excellent post, DB DB....

You certainly have captured Dennis Kucinich's appeal. It's real and tangible and it is steeped in over 30 years of commitment to progressive values. Even when he was prolife it was based on his real feelings about it. He's HONEST and can be taken at his word.

[jos]

12. In a perfect world

Kucinich would be President. I support him for the reasons you list. However, I recognize it's unlikely he'll win the nomination. That's why I eventually expect to throw my support to Dean. But you need someone who will stand up for true progressive principles, without any sail-trimming.

[Tinoire]

13. Kucinich is America's LAST CHANCE

I will work with every bone in my body to see Kucinich elected because the same ole, same ole will no longer do as America stands on the edge of the precipice BOTH Dems and Republicans have brought us to. It's real easy to bury our heads in the sand and blame Bush and ignore all the DIRTY things our own Dem leadership did in this corrupt 2-party system where each side feels it's got the voters by the balls. Yeah Bush is ROTTEN to the core but our country didn't get where it is today just because of Bush. It got where it is today thanks to EVERY politician who voted for fat Pentagon budgets, accepted money from rotten corporations and special interest PACs, sent billions to other countries for votes while some of their own consituents are starving, swapped this vote for that one while ignoring ALL principles.

The sad thing is that freepers are every bit as sincere and pissed off as we are, every bit as HAD.


Peace No strike that. There will be no peace until people do what it takes to make it happen and that means NO LONGER COMPROMISING. NO LONGER SACRIFICING YOUR PRINCIPLES because some marketer told you that x or y is the only one electable. America- going, going gone- SOLD to the highest bidder and to the best marketer!

[Dhalgren]

43. Man! Well said!

We have to get this thing done! No turning back, no letting up! We need to get the numbers down and start preaching and I mean today!

The flight suit dosen't make the man - ideas do and solutions do!

[JNelson6563]

16. Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about!!!

Dem Bones-everyone should take a clue from your post. If we were to all put out such posts regarding our candidate of choice it would be so much more productive than the path many are currently on!

Great post about your guy! I like Kucinich too. He's not the candidate I am supporting but there is much to like about him.

Kudos for taking the high road--

Julie

[friendofbenn]

17. Kucinich for president

why not vote for real change? after all thats what being a progressive is all about

[Tinoire]

20. KPFA covered him today while they were covering the Power Grid Problem

What a great drive to work knowing that so many people were hearing about him and the kinds of fights he's been willing to take on in uur interest!

What broke my heart, despite the good news about that exposure, were all the stories about families on extremely tight budgets having to throw out all the ruined food their freezers, warehouses, store merchants...

I hope Kucinich wins. Our system of corporations valuing stock holders and their executives more than the quality they give to their customers has got to end.

And to this Bush wants to stick the people with a 50 billion dollar bill to 'remedy' our power grid system.
Questions to Mr Bush and Republicans and Democrats who helped get us to this point- what happened to all the money we paid the power companies for their services? Oh and by the way, where is Kenneth Lay? Why is Gray Davis being demonized and vilified for having fought you and your friends as you raped and plundered my state?

[dpbrown]

22. Because we don't have to "settle"

I'm tired of "settling." Reagan, Bush, and Bush have turned this nation into a cowering bunch of conspicuous consumers with nothing but disdain and low expectations for our government.

It doesn't have to be this way.

Dennis Kucinich is the sea change we need right now to begin taking our nation back from the pirates-in-privatization-clothes who have nearly bankrupted our country while making themselves rich at our expense.

It's time to wake up, America.

Dan Brown
Saint Paul, Minnesota

[gully]

26. While I have you all in the same place?

Or at least many of DK's supporters...

Who's your second choice for Prez? Or, are you not thinking in that direction yet?

Just curious.

*But, if you will pretend we have instant run-off voting ;)*

[dpbrown]

27. You know, this would make a great poll

But I'll let you know. My second choice is Kerry.

Dan Brown
Saint Paul, Minnesota

[gully]

28. aaah, thanks. I though about a second choice poll?

hmmm, perhaps later, unless someone else is interested.

[dpbrown]

29. I just slapped one up in GD

We'll see how it goes.

Dan

[Dhalgren]

45. Sadly, I don't really have a second choice.

Perhaps Moseley-Braun? But I would need to hear more of her views on taking our counrty back from the corporations and robber-barons who have it now.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

74. Exactly...

Right now there is no other candidate that inspires me even half as much as DK does.

They all speak political and their views on major issues like war, pentagon budget, NAFTA and the envirment are certainly lacking.

Noone speaks with sincerity like Dennis K. Many people accuse him of yelling. That's what happens when you actually care about this country and its PEOPLE. The current situation makes you want to stand up and yell. Just because he cares he is goofy/nutcase/yeller? Isn't it great that our country is so far gone that being passionate about making peace and caring for the people of the world is considered loony/crazy.


TWL

[XanaDUer]

30. DK's stand on Universal health care is superb!

n/t.

[diamondsoul]

31. My comment at Lessig's blog-

When another poster there commented that "people who spend too long in (politics) tend to lose their grounding in common sense" in reference to Congressman Kucinich's lengthy tenure on the House.

"Actually, I think I have to disagree with you on this (big surprise, eh?). I think your statements about politics and the political world are completely accurate, but your assessment of Congressman Kucinich is backwards. Rather it’s my belief he is the exception among those in politics. It’s not a loss of grounding in realism you see, it’s a very FIRM grounding in the realism of most American citizens.

I’ve watched numerous men and women take office in my lifetime. People I believed would be the voice of the working class in our Government. I’ve watched them turn into the same old plastic politicians over and over again. They get devoured by that world and spit out an unfeeling uncaring politico who spouts the same platitiudes and promises that are never kept.

No, I’d have to say Congressman Kucinich is the exception to that process. That he’s kept a firm grasp of what working class America wants and needs in order to live decent lives. Unfortunately working class America has become so used to being walked on by corporate and political interest that they can’t believe anyone not engaging in it could possibly be real. They’ve also forgotten they are the largest force in this nation.

Congressman Kucinich is the Unicorn among a herd of thoroughbreds. People look, blink and tell themselves it can’t be. Like being confronted with a Unicorn, though, once they’ve seen him, touched his hand and felt his grip, once they hear him speak about all he wants for this country, most admit he’s an amazing force and yes, he is indeed the real thing."

I thought I did a good job disputing his contention that Kucinich is unrealistic and decided to share it.

[Dhalgren]

46. Good reply!

And we need to start countering all these "unrealistic", "can't be elected", "waste your vote" nonsense statements with the same kind of straight talk rebuttal that you have demonstrated.

Everyone, don't just shrug off these comments by self appointed pundits! Rejoin to them the arguments and ideas, the plans and schedules that Dennis provides on his website. Don't let it get personal, but don't let it slide, either. Take the high road, but take it in force!

[ElsewheresDaughter]

34. me too!!!

:bounce:

[blindpig]

35. Bravo!

To the barricades!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

36. I love Kucinich although I am still in the undecided camp

No matter his prospects for getting elected, I hope he finds himself elevated in the public eye in any future Dem admin.


An interesting side note...the Department of Defense used to be KNOWN as the Dept of War and was changed for marketing reasons. In DOD source books the word PEACE is replaced with a term PERMANENT PRE-HOSTILITY

[dpbrown]

37. Peace does not equal "pre-hostility"

Isn't it weird how we find constantly reinforced the idea that "violence is inevitable?"

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

38. Very much so

There used to be a program called America's Defense Monitor and they did an entire episode on DOD jargon..it was a really informative show. I wish that old programs were available on DVD.

The program does replay on FREESPEECH TV..I am certain videos are available but have not found transcripts online.

on edit: I just found a copy of the video from the episode of America's Defense Monitor online:

America's Defense Monitor: The Language of War

http://www.worldlanguage.com/Products/9643.htm

[DemBones DemBones]

39. While I knew that DOD used to be the War Department, I had never

known that peace is "permanent pre-hostility" -- that's INSANE!!!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

41. reference

Doublespeak:
Other nominees included:

* The National Transportation Safety Board, which calls an airplane
crash "controlled flight into terrain."

* The Pentagon, which renamed peace "permanent pre-hostility",
combat "violence processing", and civilian casualties in nuclear
war "collateral damage".

* The Central Intelligence Agency, whose mercenaries in Nicaragua
are considered "unilaterally controlled Latino assets".
http://www.csd.uwo.ca/staff/magi/personal/humour/General_Audience/Doublespeak.html

[diamondsoul]

61. GOOD God!

This really is a sick and twisted nation!

[Desertrose]

44. Thank DBDB for this great post!!!

I agree with everything you ,Tinoire,dpbrown and others have said....

DK is the only real choice in my estimation.
I am doing everything I can think of to get this man the attention & support he needs to get elected.

To the naysayers.... I believe all things are possible...and I believe that it is VERY possible for DK to get the nomination and the election too.

As far as a second choice...at this point I have no second choice because even though I have looked at each candidate for a ray of hope...a tiny bit of what I see with Dennis- every time I am disappointed by what they say...and IMO they are all a distant second choice...I don't see why I should have to settle when we already have the best...DJK!

I am hoping we can continue more postive threads here on DU about ALL the candidates....that IS why people come to DU - to get the real facts....not nasty spin.

:loveya: guys...

Peace
DR


typo edit....sigh

[Lydia Leftcoast]

52. It is too early to count Dennis out

After all, it's--what?--it's five months to the Iowa caucuses, which are the first time the candidates are put to the test.

The horses are just out of the gate, so to speak. Anything could happen.

If DK makes enough public appearances, he'll rise in the polls for sure.

Some candidates are saying, "The Republicans are basically right, but not entirely."

Most are saying, "We'll get rid of the worst Republican innovations and try to mitigate the damage, but the pundits tell us that the rest is impractical."

DK is saying, in effect, "Republican policies have been disastrous. The only way to save this country is to make a 180 degree turn."

When I realized what he was saying, it literally brought tears to my eyes.

[govegan]

47. Yes, thank you for the thoughtful words.

And don't we all need to be more thoughtful, at least from time to time?

Like you, DB DB, I share concerns about genetically modified foods and genetic engineering and biotechnology in general.

Kucinich's insistence on labeling genetic food is one of the "smaller" issues and a major reason I became interested in him as a candidate. I believe that American have a right to be told if their food is genetically modified (at present you can assume that you are eating GM foods but identifying which foods are and which foods aren't is very difficult and the foods industry resists labeling.)

One way we can assure that what we are eating is not GMO is to buy ORGANIC. After many years of hard work, organic standards are now officially established at the USDA. Buy ORGANIC and support your local farmers, the family farms and community supported agriculture.

Dennis is way ahead of the other candidates in his awareness of these issues, or at the very least in his public pronouncements of them. Under Bill Clinton's watch, with the help of other Democrats as well as the other party, Monsanto was allowed many concessions, including the approval of BGH. Just recently Monsanto has once again gone after a small regional dairy that has pledged that their products do not contain BGH. Find out more at http://www.notmilk.com/biomenu.html

We should not be mistaken that agri-business monopolies and biotech companies are making war on family farms and independent agriculture, not just in the US, but on a world wide basis. These corporations have the complete blessings of the murderous mythomaniacal beast that inhabits DC. These corporations want to control the very seeds of life and to deny others the right to maintain their own traditions and organic ways of sustenance. The US government in the hands of these powers has become a pox on the planet and a plague to the soul.

Our time is not indefinite, and the window that we have for change is not as large as some think. The strong progressive stance of Dennis Kucinich is what we need to push the ship of state from the shoals of deceit, indifference and greed.

[revcarol]

48. The main reason I am for Kucinich is that he is NOT a "sound-bite"

man!! He studies the issues carefully. He knows all their complexities, their ins and outs, the implications for security, economics,U. S. and foreign workers and governments,cultures and religions, the whole range of things that make for knowing what a domestic or foreign policy should encompass.


For instance, he is only one of two candidates(Sharpton is the other) to have REAL INSIGHT AND REAL IDEAS for bringing Israel and Palestine to a more permanent solution.He is so damn realistic,

but realistic WITH FAIRNESS FOR BOTH SIDES and KNOWING HOW THEIR NEIGHBORS IN THE REGION can help and will be affected,

and knowing what the U. S. can do to facilitate solutions and what we CANNOT do.

I can no longer put up with the sound-bite wo/man.
I choose depth and breadth of vision, a vision that is far-reaching and includes all of the world and all of the people of the U. S. working together.

BRING US TOGETHER, DENNIS.

[pizzathehut]

50. You've convinced me. He's better than the Dean nut.

And Gephardt and Lieberman wont be any better than Republicans. Just sucking up to their rich corporate donors the same as clinton and gore did.

Lets vote for the TRUE democrat.

[diamondsoul]

59. He IS better than Dean,

though I won't insult Dr. Dean any further than that statement. It's my impression that Kucinich is just more forthright with his intentions for fixing what ails the country than Dr. Dean is.

I don't know why Dr. Dean isn't more clear with his plans, but it's one of the things that makes me look elsewhere for someone to support.

[DemBones DemBones]

79. That's good to hear! I believe that Harry Truman was right when

he said that if you have a race between a Republican and a Democrat who acts like a Republican, people will vote for the Republican every time.

As you said, "Let's vote for the TRUE Democrat!"

[durutti]

51. He might not make it to my state

If he doesn't, I'll vote for either Dean or Kerry.

[diamondsoul]

60. You'll only vote for someone who comes to your State?

That's an interesting criteria, but may I point out something you may not be taking into account?

Please understand Congressman Kucinich is not only an Ohio State Representative, but also Chairman of the Progressive Congressional Caucus. He has carried a perfect voting record in the 107th Congress, and intends to keep that record. You see Congressman Kucinich takes the position he was elected to very seriously. He doesn't miss votes in order to gain attention from voters. He tries very hard to let his performance do his speaking. There is a distinct possibility he won't come to my state either. I still support him because I know without a doubt if he wins the Presidential election, my country and my life will be in very good hands.

I also realize that he must win over certain states for electoral votes and nominations. Between those things and his elected duties time is limited for him to travel. I'd love dearly to meet him face to face, but I accept that he's doing what he must for the people who elected him, and for the country itself.

[birdman]

69. I think he meant that the DK campaign may end before his state primary

With the process so front loaded and with so many
candidates those who do not score well in IA, NH or
SC are not likely to be around long after that.

[revcarol]

78. If he wants to influence the campaign, even though his primary is late,

all you have to do is send $$.

I am recommending(listen up, y'all) that anyone who likes DK's ideas send $5.00!! Will that break your bank?

And you can volunteer and attend DK meet-ups with others in your area, so you don't feel all alone in the wilderness of a red state.

[dpbrown]

53. The Soul of the Democratic Party

We need to fight for Dennis like he's fighting for us.

[KoKo]

54. Yes....Dem Bones, hear ya'. I will give him some $$'s. He's been great!

I saw him on CNBC trashing a Right Wing Anchor who said that he was a Socialist who wanted to bring us back to the old Soviet style of governance. He held firm.....and made Joe Kernan look like an ass!

If he doesn't make it to President.....he surely is a NEW VOICE for Dems....he can dish it out with the best of the RW'ers even.

I'm going to give to him. I'm undecided but have given to Dean.....my conscience says to give to Kucinich.

Those who SPEAK FOR US!!

[JackieO]

55. Dennis is on top of EVERYTHING...

This guy obviously has what it takes to bring this country together and take us peacefully into the future. The man is right on top of every issue. He understands what's going on and offers serious solutions to turn the whole thing around.

Dennis has said recently that when Congress returns he intends to introduce legislation to both repeal the Patriot Act and to hold the makers of voting machines accountable for their products.

Dennis is working hard for this country and the world and he's not taking corporate money... Support him!

[dansolo]

58. What would the Dept of Peace do

that isn't already part of what the State Department should be doing? I fully accept that the current State Department isn't doing enough to promote peace, but what would be the point of creating another bureaucracy? Frankly, my feeling is that instead of creating a new Department, we should have the State Department actively working to promote peaceful relations. And what about when the need arises for peacekeeping forces when we are not an active participant? Whose responsibility would that be? Would we fully abdicate responsibility to the UN? Or would we provide troops, in which case that would be under the purview of the Defense Department. I realize that Donald Rumsfeld has distorted many people's perspective of the Dept. of Defense, but I think that everyone will agree that the best way to defend America is by promoting peace across the world. I think his talk about a Dept. of Peace is merely pandering. There are far more practical proposals that could more reasonably accomplish his goals.

[diamondsoul]

63. This is what Kucinich himself has in mind-

from http://kucinich.us/issues/issue_departmentpeace.htm

"Its work in violence control will be to support disarmament, treaties, peaceful coexistence and peaceful consensus building. Its focus on economic and political justice will examine and enhance resource distribution, human and economic rights and strengthen democratic values.

Domestically, the Department of Peace would address violence in the home, spousal abuse, child abuse, gangs, police-community relations conflicts and work with individuals and groups to achieve changes in attitudes that examine the mythologies of cherished world views, such as 'violence is inevitable' or 'war is inevitable'. Thus it will help with the discovery of new selves and new paths toward peaceful consensus.

The Department of Peace will also address human development and the unique concerns of women and children. It will envision and seek to implement plans for peace education, not simply as a course of study, but as a template for all pursuits of knowledge within formal educational settings."

Now if you read all that, the Department of Peace is not just about international relations. It's about changing the way people respond to conflict in general. Teaching our children that violence is not the first step in solving a conflict, about helping families affected by domestic violence, about starting at the root of a problem to solve it instead of passing laws and hoping people will follow them.

I'm tired of hearing about tortured children killing each other, tired of hearing about men and women murdered by their spouses after years of abuse, tired of hearing how police used excessive force on some guy for a traffic violation or some such. I'm tired of a nation obsessed with killing. Congressman Kucinich has an idea on how to combat these things at the source instead of waiting until it's all gone to hell. I wish more people thought that way.

[dansolo]

65. This really sounds like more of a state/local issue

How is a Federal Department going to help out with this? Having this at the Federal level will only impede any improvements. Federal guidelines can be established, but that is a legislative matter. Again, I don't see why a Department of Peace would be needed to accomplish this?

[diamondsoul]

67. Because the mindset has to be changed

from top and bottom at once. It won't help to educate people about non-violent resolution of conflict if our national leaders and DoD are still blowing other countries to kingdom come whenever they piss us off.

I hope that makes sense- It has to begin with the leadership AND the children at the same time. That won't happen unless it's a Federal program. It's like the Head-start program, it was brought into existance because the Sates weren't living up to their obligations to our children. The same thing would happen if we tried to make national policy based on peaceful resolution without Federal enforcement to back it up.

Now just my perspective here, and not because I support Kucinich the man but because I support this idea, I see too much promise from a Department of Peace to just dismiss it as un-needed. This department would set some standards for police/community communication to help ensure police brutality declines, set some standards for education that would help eliminate the notion that violence is inevitable in our children, it could easily be the initial force for a national registry of domestic abuse shelters and resources. I can think of lots of things a Peace Department can do that we don't have happening, but would seriously improve our society.

[David Zephyr]

62. Great Post, DemBones DemBones!

Dennis is a true advocate for the people. My man, Tom Hayden, is supporting him.

Again, great post.

[tlcandie]

71. DKTsunami2win!

I watched a program titled, 'Green Plans', on FSTV earlier today regarding some bold moves taken in the Netherlands and New Zealand! It is a MUST watch!

It discusses bringing everything together because it is ALL connected (politics, air, land, sea). It discusses how many issues (political, less government, etc.) were settled by STEPPING OUT OF THE BOX!

KUCINICH IS THE ONLY ONE THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX..! And I don't know about you, but I'm damned tired of feeling like a rat in a cage }(

[goodhue]

72. Courage America

http://www.commonwealthclub.org/archive/03/03-07kucinich-audio.html
Worth at listen!!!

[ThirdWheelLegend]

75. The true voice of the people...

I have a hard time listening to DK, not because he is loud, but because he speaks so much truth and with passion it makes me emotional.

Yes I am a 32 year old male, and I get emotional listening to DK speak. Because I KNOW that he speaking from the heart and I KNOW he speaks with passion for the people of not only this country, but the world.


Listen to the first part of the Q+A session.

The question is:"Do you believe the American justification for military action in Iraq was Fraudulent?"

Dennis Kucinich's answer: "YES... Specificially there was no connection between Iraq and 9-11, no connection between Iraq and al-queda's work on 9-11, no connection between Iraq and the Anthrax attack, and Iraq just simply did NOT have the WMD that this admistration said they had."


nuff said...

Everyone should really listen to both the speech and the Q+A.

link again:

http://www.commonwealthclub.org/archive/03/03-07kucinich-audio.html

[ThirdWheelLegend]

76. Kick for the best candidate...

Once you listen to DK and hear his passion and message, the choice is perfectly clear.

By far the most honest and caring of the bunch and BY FAR the best on the issues.

Why are so many intent on settling for mediocrity because of some talking point 'electability' fodder.

Each time we settle for something less we move farther to the right.

TWL


KICK!

[JackieO]

80. Dennis is the man!

I gotta kick this thread cuz DB did such a great job on it.