Get The Troops Out Now!

[Ugnmoose]

Just for one moment let us hold our noses and accept the new White House spin that even though we haven't found the WMD, that it is not important. What is important is that we helped rid the Iraqi people of a tyrannical, diabolical dictator. O.K. the dictator is long gone, and not likely to return assuming he is still alive. Mission accomplished. There is no reason for our troops to stay. Our job is done. It is now up to the U.N. to do what it does best. Bring in an international peacekeeping force and help the Iraqi people form a new government. There is no reason for our troops to continue dying and being injured as an occupying force. That is not what they are trained to do. And it is glaringly obvious that many Iraqis don't like us nor do they want us to continue occupying their country. So let's get the hell out!

There needs to be a grassroots campaign by the activist community to lobby and pressure our Congressman and Senators to bring em home and not bring em on! Stop the killing and maiming for Gods sake. I remember Vietnam very well. I was a college student and stood in protest marches on my campus to end the war. It may be time once again to take it to the streets.

[Booberdawg]

1. Never happen

Now that we have demolished the place we are responsible for staying there till Iraq is rebuilt and stabalized.

I was against sending them there in the first place, but I'd be against pulling them out now. It would be irresponsible.

[Ugnmoose]

3. To whom?

If we took an honest vote of the Iraqi people, I bet they would overwhelmingly want us to leave and bring in an international peacekeeping force. I agree that we should help pay for the damage we wrought upon them. But it is one thing to pay with our dollars. It is quite another to pay with our lives. Let's face it we fucked up big time in going there. It is time to admit it and get the hell out.

[Yupster]

15. Agree Boober

if we left today, there would be a Civil War there with millions dead. We are resonsible to put that place in some sort of order before we leave.

[alcuno]

2. I'm currently stuck in the "I told you so" mode.

And also the "We broke it, we own it" mode. This should now be turned over to the UN but our administration is not going to do it. They will continue to whine about having other countries "help" us or "putting an Iraqi face" on the security. I can't imagine which Iraqis are going to volunteer to collaborate with the US.

Why do the same people who said "This is a really bad idea" and got called traitors for it, now have to go through it again? I'm willing to join with people who supported the war and have now changed their minds, but until those people step forward, I don't see things changing.

That said, I'll call my doofus senator, Fitzgerald (again). I can still remember his impassioned speech about WMD's on the senate floor.

[Jacobin]

4. Ahem, it appears that the UN is considered part of the infidel

cabal.

I'm not sure they are very happy to have Westerners of any stripe, no matter how well motivated they might be.

We "broke" Vietnam, too. Killed hundreds of thousands of them, littered the country with mines, blew the bejezus out of the whole place and sprayed it with Agent Orange.

As soon as we got kicked out, they recovered and they seem to be doing quite well now.... NO THANKS TO THE US

[Ugnmoose]

6. Only because we are there

The average Iraqi knows full well that we are there for the oil and they resent us for it. If we were to leave tensions would ease and there just might be an opportunity to form a new government. Although with the damned factions they have, the only way it could work is with some sort of coalition. I still believe that that part of the world is basically ungovernable. They are there own worst enemies.

[alcuno]

10. We can't just leave.

There are three options.

1. US goes it alone with the rest of our "coalition."
2. US leaves and Iraq descends into even greater chaos. You cannot just leave a country of 26 million with nothing.
3. Turn it over to the UN and hope for the best. Maybe they could get some Arab troops in and be able to form a government.

2 is not even really an option, in my opinion. We invaded that country and it's our responsibility not to abandon it, whether we like it or not.

You said that they are ungovernable and their own worst enemies. Too bad. It's our problem.

[Ugnmoose]

11. Option 3 works quite well

We gradually disengage our troops and allow UN peacekeepers to take over. The only reason for our troops to stay in there and to keep out a UN backed coalition of peacekeepers is so we can control the oil wells and divvy up the spoils to Cheney's boys. Let's call the spade a spade. So if the administration wants us there for that reason say it. Tell the American people that we need to have their oil and we are willing to risk our young men and women's lives in order to control it for ourselves. Any other reason for being there is a total sham and we should not be buying it.

[Jacobin]

12. We won't "just leave". We'll be run out on our asses

We can do it now, or we can get run out later.

The only difference is the number of bodies.

While we may have confidence in the ability of the U.N. to help them rebuild, somehow I think the Iraqis would like all the infidels to just leave them alone and they will probably resist the U.N. the same way they resist the U.S.

While it may sound "irresponsible" to just leave, I don't think we have a choice. I think its more of a pride thing (just like vietnam was)

BTW, Saddam was the only thing that kept Iraq from "descending into chaos". We are doing the same thing he was doing. Brutally repressing the populace to keep them from killing each other. He couldn't have been too bad. WE PUT HIM IN POWER TO BEGIN WITH.

[alcuno]

13. That may very well happen

That we'll be "run out on our asses." That's different from when people say, "just leave." I say turn it over to the UN before it happens.

[Yupster]

17. At least we can arm the Shi-ites

before we leave so they are not murdered by the thousands and tossed into mass graves like last time we told them it was safe to fight back.

I don't think we have any right to leave the place when we know a bloodbath will ensue.

[Yupster]

16. And you don't think

that Saddam's people representing the minority priviledged Sunnis will go nuts putting the uppity Shi-ites in their place again? It will be a religious war as bad as any in this century. And the Sunnis will be better organized and have more guns, and the Shi-ites will end up in the mass graves again, and we would have failed them again, just like in 1991.

[David Zephyr]

5. Bring Them Home!

I am with you.

[Jacobin]

7. I wonder if it will take as long as Vietnam to bring them home

I wonder how many administrations from now we will see the helicopter picking up the last american refugee from the roof of the american embassy and fleeing like thieves in the night. I have that picture emblazoned on my brain.....last flight from Saigon.

How many soldiers will be killed, how many innocent Iraqis, how much of our treasury will be squandered....that could have been used to develop alternative energy rather than attempting to steal the oil of the Iraqis.

[Ugnmoose]

8. History repeats itself

Will we never learn from our past mistakes?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

9. No.

[NNN0LHI]

14. Forget the United Nations

America is the United Nations and the Arab world knows this. They are not idiots as some would want you to believe. They know a good cop/bad cop scam when they see one. And mark my word. The same people who are now saying we just can't leave them Iraqis to create a society on their own will change their tune when the repercussions from this occupation come to America in a sudden and violent way. They will change from "we just can't leave them poor Iraqi's now", to "we have to glass all of them friggin Arabs now". Just watch and see.

Don

[DemBones DemBones]

18. Dennis Kucinich wants to get them out now -- that's one reason

I'm supporting him.

He wants the US to immediately call on the UN to help them work out an exit strategy whereby the US troops would be replaced by UN peacekeepers. He also would have American companies prohibited from profiting from the reconstruction of Iraq. He has introduced legislation in the House to require the administration to do just that. (He's also sued Bush* to bring about an end to the war.) Of course he's having no success yet but there always has to be someone willing to stand up in Congress and call for change.

I believe there could be peace in Iraq with UN peacekeepers, even though Iraqis know the US has a lot of power in the UN. The Iraqi people are not happy with the badly mismanaged occupation and I see no end to guerilla warfare. I don't buy the idea that all the attacks are being carried out by terrorists who have come to Iraq from elsewhere. Our troops have done some really dumb stuff over there, showing that command is doing a poor job, which goes back to Rumsfeld's micromanagement. It also seems the troops were not properly trained in some areas. I'm not criticizing the troops. Poor training and poor command is responsible for incidents like these:

-- trying to remove a Muslim religious flag from a communications tower

-- firing into a crowd of demonstrators angry about the flag incident

-- incidents in which US troops are not abiding by the Geneva Conventions

-- the killing of Saddam's sons, followed by the barbaric display of their bloody, bodies

After such events, I don't see Iraq becoming calm and peaceful as long as there are American troops there. Iraqis and Americans will continue dying until we end this.